Galatians 4:14

SPIT OUT in Gal 4:14 Dmitriy Reznik dpreznik at usa.net
Thu Sep 2 19:47:39 EDT 1999

 

“Present-future” Tense (was “Ungrammatical …”) 2 Cor 6:10 Dear friends,Maybe anybody could help me to translate Gal 4:14. KAI TON PEIRASMON UMWN EN TH SARKI MOU OUK EXOUQENHSATE OUDE EXEPTUSATE…I am interested how to understand EKPTUW in this context. Many versions just translate this word metaphorically: for example, as “to reject” (and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or loathe…)But some lexicons insist on literal understanding “to spit out”. They say it was a defence against evil spirits to spit having met a sick person. If it is right, I would like to know whether they just used to spit on the ground, or to that sick person’s face, or anyhow else. I need to know it in order to choose a proper word for translating into Russian. Maybe anybody knows these things about usage of this Greek word and about this ancient coustom?Thank you Dmitriy Reznik

 

“Present-future” Tense (was “Ungrammatical …”)2 Cor 6:10

SPIT OUT in Gal 4:14 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Sep 3 07:20:14 EDT 1999

 

“Present-future” Tense (was “Ungrammatical …”) Philippians 1:1-2 At 7:47 PM -0500 9/2/99, Dmitriy Reznik wrote:>Dear friends,> >Maybe anybody could help me to translate Gal 4:14.>KAI TON PEIRASMON UMWN EN TH SARKI MOU OUK EXOUQENHSATE OUDE EXEPTUSATE…>I am interested how to understand EKPTUW in this context. Many versions>just translate this word metaphorically: for example, as “to reject” (and>that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or>loathe…)But some lexicons insist on literal understanding “to spit out”.>They say it was a defence against evil spirits to spit having met a sick>person. If it is right, I would like to know whether they just used to spit>on the ground, or to that sick person’s face, or anyhow else. I need to>know it in order to choose a proper word for translating into Russian.>Maybe anybody knows these things about usage of this Greek word and about>this ancient custom?This might be a matter of the social level at which the language is beingused, but I guess some caution is called for here, inasmuch as what somemight deem as superstition may be deemed as proper and natural ritualbehavior by another. My own guess is that in Gal 4:14 Paul is using thisword figuratively for “reject.” It’s interesting that this is the onlyinstance of the verb in the GNT. The brief discussion in Louw & Nida onthis:34.37 EKPTUW: (a figurative extension of meaning of EKPTUW ‘to spit out,’not occurring in the NT) to reject, with the implication of a measure ofdisdain – ‘to reject, to have disdain for.’ OUK EXOUQENHSATE OUDEEKEPTUSATE ‘you did not despise or reject (me)’ Ga 4:14. In a number oflanguages ‘to reject’ is expressed idiomatically as ‘to throw away,’ ‘topush away,’ or ‘to turn one’s back toward.’One certainly has to be careful about affirming literal rather thanmetaphorical senses to verbs expressive of powerful feelings used in theNT, as for instance SPLAGCNIZOMAI.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityOne Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/————– next part ————–A non-text attachment was scrubbed…Name: not availableType: text/enrichedSize: 2236 bytesDesc: not availableUrl : http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//attachments/19990903/215902fd/attachment.bin

 

“Present-future” Tense (was “Ungrammatical …”)Philippians 1:1-2

SPIT OUT in Gal 4:14 Mark D. Nanos nanos at gvi.net
Fri Sep 3 11:39:26 EDT 1999

 

digest: September 02, 1999 digest: September 02, 1999 Dmitriy Reznik wrote:>Maybe anybody could help me to translate Gal 4:14.KAI TON PEIRASMON UMWN EN TH SARKI MOU OUK EXOUQENHSATE OUDE EXEPTUSATE…I am interested how to understand EKPTUW in this context. Many versionsjust translate this word metaphorically: for example, as “to reject” (andthat which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise orloathe…)But some lexicons insist on literal understanding “to spit out”.They say it was a defence against evil spirits to spit having met a sickperson. If it is right, I would like to know whether they just used to spiton the ground, or to that sick person’s face, or anyhow else. I need toknow it in order to choose a proper word for translating into Russian.Maybe anybody knows these things about usage of this Greek word and aboutthis ancient coustom?Translating OUDE EXEPTUSATE with “spit,” that is, “nor did you spit,”would, I think, be sufficient, and preferred to the metaphoricaltranslations, which generally are redundant with the sense expressed bytranslating EXOUQENHSATE.The semantic domain in which to elaborate on what this “not spitting”indicated is another matter, and one that is not yet resolved, being asomewhat recent conversation among intrepreters. I take it to indicate thatthey did not seek to protect themselves by way of spitting, a customaryprotective measure in “evil eye cultures,” both ancient and modern, stillpracticed in such cultures as those of the Mediterranean region or ofCeltic descent. This would indicate that they had cause to be concernedthat Paul might represent an evil eye threat to themselves when he firstarrived, but they overcame this suspicion, and decided that he was amessenger of good and not evil, and thus blessed instead of cursed him.See the discussion of Elliott, John H. 1990. “Paul, Galatians, and the EvilEye.” Currents in Theology and Mission 17:262-73, now drawn on inWitherington’s new commentary, Grace in Galatia, Eerdmans. For a differentview of the meaning of the spitting here see Goddard, A. J., and Cummins,S. A. 1993. “Ill or Ill-Treated? Conflict and Persecution as the Context ofPaul’s Original Ministry in Galatia (Galatians 4.12-20). JSNT 52:93-126. Ithink Elliott makes the better case, as the tie in with 3:1 indicates anevil eye (BASKAINW) domain at work in the letter, introduced by Paul by theway, along with the indication that Paul’s condition “in the flesh” is whathad been a PEIRASMON to themselves.If it was in this sense that they did not spit, then it is not necessary totranslate upon whom or what the spit was directed, since such an actioncould be toward the gazer (in this case Paul) or gazee (themselves or whomor what they feared the gaze might fall). It might also be helpful to notethat, at least as this is still practiced in Greece among some peopleaccording to the sources with which I am familiar, for example, the soundof spitting is made perhaps in threes (pfth, pfth, pfth), without actuallyexpressing saliva per se. I suspect that some association with FQANOS/envy,which is the engine of such belief systems, is indicated in this expressionof spitting, PFTH, (perhaps naming what is feared, just as the eye amuletsworn are used to protect from the evil eye that is feared).Regards,Mark NanosKansas City

 

digest: September 02, 1999 digest: September 02, 1999

Gal 4:14 lakr lakr at netcom.com
Tue Aug 11 11:41:27 EDT 1998

 

Women in the Church Women in the Church > > On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> > >> >(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition> >you did not despise or loathe, but you received me > >as an angel of God> >as Christ Jesus Himself.> >> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as > >Christ’> > I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesus> with more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating to> make the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.> > It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’t> believe it. > > > > Phillip J. Long> Asst. Prof. Bible & Greek> Grace Bible College> Dear ‘ers,I read through the first part of Galatians after reading the responsesso far and it strikes me that Ga 4:4 might have some bearing on 4:14 :Ga 4:4But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent [ ECAPESTEILEN ] forth his Son, who came to be out of a woman and who came to be under law,It seems, too, that the phrase ‘ANNGELON QEOU’, in Paul’s usage doesrefer not to a human messenger, but to a heavanly one, as thecomentary “The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians” byLukyn Williams indicates with the comment on this verse on page 97:”Probably “angel” (not “messenger”) as always in St Paul, though the commonness of the word prevents our laying stress on this fact.”Williams goes on to compare this verse to Mal 3:1 and says in referenceto this verse: ”The connexion in St. Pauls mind was probably due to his reminiscence of Mal iii.1. IDOU EGW ECAPOSTELLW TON AGGELON MOU “KAI … ECAIFNHS HCEI EIS TON NAON EAUTOU KURIOS ON UMEIS ZHTEITE KAI O AGGELOS THS DIAQHKHS ON UMEIS QELETE”, where as here, ANNGELOS suggests both it’s meanings. St. Paul means that they could not have received him better if he had been an angel, yes, if he had been Christ Himself.”In “Critical and Exegetical Commentary on The New Testament” by Heinrich August Wilhelm Meyer, page 246 he says of the phrase : ”—WS XRISTON IHSOUN] a climax added asyndetically in the excitement of feeling, and presenting to a still greater extent than WS AGGEL. QEOU (Heb 1:4; Phil 2:10; Col 1:16) the high reverence and love with which he had been received by them, and that as a divine messenger. Comp. Matt. x.40; John xiii. 20.”It looks like there is an escalation of sorts in this verse, as’an angel of God’ (anarthrous), not just any “angel/messenger of God”,but as if Paul were the one that God sent forth (cf Ga 4:4).Personally, I am not sure what basis there is in making a distinctionbetween “angel” and “messenger”. I always thought it refered to afunction rather than a “species”.Sincerely,Larry Kruper

 

Women in the ChurchWomen in the Church

Gal 4:14 Thomas Biddy web3943 at charweb.org
Tue Aug 11 03:52:34 EDT 1998

 

Fw: Raymond Brown Making of Canon Hi, 4:14 kai ton {AND} peirasmon {TEMPTATION} mou ton {MY} en {IN} th sarki mou {MY FLESH} ouk {NOT} exouqenhsate (5656) {YE DESPISED} oude {NOR} exeptusate (5656) {REJECTED WITH CONTEMPT;} all {BUT} wj {AS} aggelon {AN ANGEL} qeou {OF GOD} edexasqe (5662) {YE RECEIVED} me {ME,} wj {AS} criston {CHRIST} ihsoun {JESUS.}(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily conditionyou did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of Godas Christ Jesus Himself.I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as Christ’Best,Thomasweb3943 at charweb.org

 

Fw: Raymond BrownMaking of Canon

Gal 4:14 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue Aug 11 10:17:01 EDT 1998

 

Women in the Church Women in the Church My 2 cents:I’ll leave that question to others, but I always like to remind people that”angel” could just as easily be “messenger”, especially in this situation.”Angels” are a particular type of messenger and it is not always proper touse the special when the general fits so well. At least this is how Iunderstand the word.

 

Women in the ChurchWomen in the Church

Gal 4:14 Mark & Mary Markham markhamm at jas-net.de
Tue Aug 11 19:14:34 EDT 1998

 

The meaning of hAPLOTHS in Romans 12:8 Gal. 4:14 >On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> >> >>(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me>>as an angel of God>>as Christ Jesus Himself.>> >>I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as>>Christ’> >I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesus>with more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating to>make the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.even a little Greek can help. The word angel carries the idea of “messengerof” we see that clearly in revelation in regars to the angles of the 7churches. Paul was considerd God’s messenger, and treated well because thedid it us unto the Lord.Other will undoubtedly be more tech than I, but it seems to fit.I hope it helps.MarkChrist pointed out that when we do things to others (esp. of His own) wehave done it unto Him (the Logos–another thread) and the way God has chosento speak to us in these last days (Hebrews)> >It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’t>believe it.—–Original Message—–From: Phillip J. Long <plong at gbcol.edu>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 6:17 AMSubject: Re: Gal 4:14>On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> >> >>(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me>>as an angel of God>>as Christ Jesus Himself.>> >>I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as>>Christ’> >I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesus>with more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating to>make the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.> >It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’t>believe it.> > > >Phillip J. Long>Asst. Prof. Bible & Greek>Grace Bible College> >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/>You are currently subscribed to as: $subst(‘PurgeID’)>To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu>

 

The meaning of hAPLOTHS in Romans 12:8Gal. 4:14

Gal 4:14 Phillip J. Long plong at gbcol.edu
Tue Aug 11 09:14:08 EDT 1998

 

Fw: Raymond Brown Women in the Church On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> >(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me >as an angel of God>as Christ Jesus Himself.> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as >Christ’I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesuswith more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating tomake the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’tbelieve it. Phillip J. LongAsst. Prof. Bible & GreekGrace Bible College

 

Fw: Raymond BrownWomen in the Church

Gal 4:14 Thomas Biddy web3943 at charweb.org
Tue Aug 11 07:49:31 EDT 1998

 

Gal 4:14 Two Troublesome Datives On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Carl W. Conrad wrote:> >as an angel of God> >as Christ Jesus Himself.> >> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as> >Christ’> > I’m not altogether sure what the intent of the question is, but my> understanding of this text is that Paul begins to describe how he felt when> welcomed by the Galatians (and it should be noted that hWS AGGELON QEOU,> even if translated “as an angel of God” literally means “as a messenger of> God”–which certainly is his self-understanding–couldn’t we say that it is> the CONTENT of the word APOSTOLOS?), Hi Carl,That is what I thought:(Heb 3:1 KJV) Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;I am not a JW (we go to a United Meth. church) but I wondered about this verse. We are discussing the word ‘angel’ on another list so I wanted to see how ofen it refers to a human being.> but he then rhetorically corrects> himself Corrects? Did he correct or expand upon it? > by suggesting that his welcome was comparable to a welcome of> Christ Jesus. Perhaps it is beyond proving, but one would like to think> that the same tradition as that recorded in Matthew 25 underlies this> formulation. Certainly the same underlying idea is involved here as was> there.The Mt 25 ref. helps to explain it.Very Best,Thomas

 

Gal 4:14Two Troublesome Datives

Gal 4:14 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Aug 11 06:22:37 EDT 1998

 

Making of Canon Gal 4:14 At 3:52 AM -0400 8/11/98, Thomas Biddy wrote:>Hi,> > 4:14 kai ton {AND} peirasmon {TEMPTATION} mou ton {MY} en {IN} th> sarki mou {MY FLESH} ouk {NOT} exouqenhsate (5656) {YE DESPISED} oude> {NOR} exeptusate (5656) {REJECTED WITH CONTEMPT;} all {BUT} wj {AS}> aggelon {AN ANGEL} qeou {OF GOD} edexasqe (5662) {YE RECEIVED} me> {ME,} wj {AS} criston {CHRIST} ihsoun {JESUS.}> >(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me>as an angel of God>as Christ Jesus Himself.> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as>Christ’I’m not altogether sure what the intent of the question is, but myunderstanding of this text is that Paul begins to describe how he felt whenwelcomed by the Galatians (and it should be noted that hWS AGGELON QEOU,even if translated “as an angel of God” literally means “as a messenger ofGod”–which certainly is his self-understanding–couldn’t we say that it isthe CONTENT of the word APOSTOLOS?), but he then rhetorically correctshimself by suggesting that his welcome was comparable to a welcome ofChrist Jesus. Perhaps it is beyond proving, but one would like to thinkthat the same tradition as that recorded in Matthew 25 underlies thisformulation. Certainly the same underlying idea is involved here as wasthere.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

 

Making of CanonGal 4:14

Gal 4:14 Thomas Biddy web3943 at charweb.org
Tue Aug 11 03:52:34 EDT 1998

 

Fw: Raymond Brown Making of Canon Hi, 4:14 kai ton {AND} peirasmon {TEMPTATION} mou ton {MY} en {IN} th sarki mou {MY FLESH} ouk {NOT} exouqenhsate (5656) {YE DESPISED} oude {NOR} exeptusate (5656) {REJECTED WITH CONTEMPT;} all {BUT} wj {AS} aggelon {AN ANGEL} qeou {OF GOD} edexasqe (5662) {YE RECEIVED} me {ME,} wj {AS} criston {CHRIST} ihsoun {JESUS.}(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily conditionyou did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of Godas Christ Jesus Himself.I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as Christ’Best,Thomasweb3943 at charweb.org

 

Fw: Raymond BrownMaking of Canon

Gal 4:14 lakr lakr at netcom.com
Tue Aug 11 11:41:27 EDT 1998

 

Women in the Church Women in the Church > > On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> > >> >(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition> >you did not despise or loathe, but you received me > >as an angel of God> >as Christ Jesus Himself.> >> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as > >Christ’> > I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesus> with more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating to> make the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.> > It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’t> believe it. > > > > Phillip J. Long> Asst. Prof. Bible & Greek> Grace Bible College> Dear ‘ers,I read through the first part of Galatians after reading the responsesso far and it strikes me that Ga 4:4 might have some bearing on 4:14 :Ga 4:4But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent [ ECAPESTEILEN ] forth his Son, who came to be out of a woman and who came to be under law,It seems, too, that the phrase ‘ANNGELON QEOU’, in Paul’s usage doesrefer not to a human messenger, but to a heavanly one, as thecomentary “The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians” byLukyn Williams indicates with the comment on this verse on page 97:”Probably “angel” (not “messenger”) as always in St Paul, though the commonness of the word prevents our laying stress on this fact.”Williams goes on to compare this verse to Mal 3:1 and says in referenceto this verse: ”The connexion in St. Pauls mind was probably due to his reminiscence of Mal iii.1. IDOU EGW ECAPOSTELLW TON AGGELON MOU “KAI … ECAIFNHS HCEI EIS TON NAON EAUTOU KURIOS ON UMEIS ZHTEITE KAI O AGGELOS THS DIAQHKHS ON UMEIS QELETE”, where as here, ANNGELOS suggests both it’s meanings. St. Paul means that they could not have received him better if he had been an angel, yes, if he had been Christ Himself.”In “Critical and Exegetical Commentary on The New Testament” by Heinrich August Wilhelm Meyer, page 246 he says of the phrase : ”—WS XRISTON IHSOUN] a climax added asyndetically in the excitement of feeling, and presenting to a still greater extent than WS AGGEL. QEOU (Heb 1:4; Phil 2:10; Col 1:16) the high reverence and love with which he had been received by them, and that as a divine messenger. Comp. Matt. x.40; John xiii. 20.”It looks like there is an escalation of sorts in this verse, as’an angel of God’ (anarthrous), not just any “angel/messenger of God”,but as if Paul were the one that God sent forth (cf Ga 4:4).Personally, I am not sure what basis there is in making a distinctionbetween “angel” and “messenger”. I always thought it refered to afunction rather than a “species”.Sincerely,Larry Kruper

 

Women in the ChurchWomen in the Church

Gal 4:14 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue Aug 11 10:17:01 EDT 1998

 

Women in the Church Women in the Church My 2 cents:I’ll leave that question to others, but I always like to remind people that”angel” could just as easily be “messenger”, especially in this situation.”Angels” are a particular type of messenger and it is not always proper touse the special when the general fits so well. At least this is how Iunderstand the word.

 

Women in the ChurchWomen in the Church

Gal 4:14 Mark & Mary Markham markhamm at jas-net.de
Tue Aug 11 19:14:34 EDT 1998

 

The meaning of hAPLOTHS in Romans 12:8 Gal. 4:14 >On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> >> >>(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me>>as an angel of God>>as Christ Jesus Himself.>> >>I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as>>Christ’> >I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesus>with more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating to>make the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.even a little Greek can help. The word angel carries the idea of “messengerof” we see that clearly in revelation in regars to the angles of the 7churches. Paul was considerd God’s messenger, and treated well because thedid it us unto the Lord.Other will undoubtedly be more tech than I, but it seems to fit.I hope it helps.MarkChrist pointed out that when we do things to others (esp. of His own) wehave done it unto Him (the Logos–another thread) and the way God has chosento speak to us in these last days (Hebrews)> >It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’t>believe it.—–Original Message—–From: Phillip J. Long <plong at gbcol.edu>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Date: Tuesday, August 11, 1998 6:17 AMSubject: Re: Gal 4:14>On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> >> >>(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me>>as an angel of God>>as Christ Jesus Himself.>> >>I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as>>Christ’> >I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesus>with more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating to>make the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.> >It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’t>believe it.> > > >Phillip J. Long>Asst. Prof. Bible & Greek>Grace Bible College> >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/>You are currently subscribed to as: $subst(‘PurgeID’)>To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu>

 

The meaning of hAPLOTHS in Romans 12:8Gal. 4:14

Gal 4:14 Phillip J. Long plong at gbcol.edu
Tue Aug 11 09:14:08 EDT 1998

 

Fw: Raymond Brown Women in the Church On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 03:52:34 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:> >(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me >as an angel of God>as Christ Jesus Himself.> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as >Christ’I took this as hyberbole. Obviously the people would recieve Jesuswith more enthusiasm than they welcomed Paul. He is exagerating tomake the point that the Galatians welcomed him well.It is similar to 1:8. even if an angel preach another gospel, don’tbelieve it. Phillip J. LongAsst. Prof. Bible & GreekGrace Bible College

 

Fw: Raymond BrownWomen in the Church

Gal 4:14 Thomas Biddy web3943 at charweb.org
Tue Aug 11 07:49:31 EDT 1998

 

Gal 4:14 Two Troublesome Datives On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Carl W. Conrad wrote:> >as an angel of God> >as Christ Jesus Himself.> >> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as> >Christ’> > I’m not altogether sure what the intent of the question is, but my> understanding of this text is that Paul begins to describe how he felt when> welcomed by the Galatians (and it should be noted that hWS AGGELON QEOU,> even if translated “as an angel of God” literally means “as a messenger of> God”–which certainly is his self-understanding–couldn’t we say that it is> the CONTENT of the word APOSTOLOS?), Hi Carl,That is what I thought:(Heb 3:1 KJV) Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;I am not a JW (we go to a United Meth. church) but I wondered about this verse. We are discussing the word ‘angel’ on another list so I wanted to see how ofen it refers to a human being.> but he then rhetorically corrects> himself Corrects? Did he correct or expand upon it? > by suggesting that his welcome was comparable to a welcome of> Christ Jesus. Perhaps it is beyond proving, but one would like to think> that the same tradition as that recorded in Matthew 25 underlies this> formulation. Certainly the same underlying idea is involved here as was> there.The Mt 25 ref. helps to explain it.Very Best,Thomas

 

Gal 4:14Two Troublesome Datives

Gal 4:14 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Aug 11 06:22:37 EDT 1998

 

Making of Canon Gal 4:14 At 3:52 AM -0400 8/11/98, Thomas Biddy wrote:>Hi,> > 4:14 kai ton {AND} peirasmon {TEMPTATION} mou ton {MY} en {IN} th> sarki mou {MY FLESH} ouk {NOT} exouqenhsate (5656) {YE DESPISED} oude> {NOR} exeptusate (5656) {REJECTED WITH CONTEMPT;} all {BUT} wj {AS}> aggelon {AN ANGEL} qeou {OF GOD} edexasqe (5662) {YE RECEIVED} me> {ME,} wj {AS} criston {CHRIST} ihsoun {JESUS.}> >(Gal 4:14 NASB) and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition>you did not despise or loathe, but you received me>as an angel of God>as Christ Jesus Himself.> >I would like to know if there is any relation with ‘as an angel’ and ‘as>Christ’I’m not altogether sure what the intent of the question is, but myunderstanding of this text is that Paul begins to describe how he felt whenwelcomed by the Galatians (and it should be noted that hWS AGGELON QEOU,even if translated “as an angel of God” literally means “as a messenger ofGod”–which certainly is his self-understanding–couldn’t we say that it isthe CONTENT of the word APOSTOLOS?), but he then rhetorically correctshimself by suggesting that his welcome was comparable to a welcome ofChrist Jesus. Perhaps it is beyond proving, but one would like to thinkthat the same tradition as that recorded in Matthew 25 underlies thisformulation. Certainly the same underlying idea is involved here as wasthere.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

 

Making of CanonGal 4:14

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