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John 3:8

cwconrad wrote: Perhaps I'm simply saying what's obvious, but the fact that πνευμα in Greek, like ruach in Hebrew and spiritus in Latin, is a metaphoric extension from verbs in these same languages that can mean both "blow" and "breathe" would seem to indicate that the analogy is being drawn to comparable instances of unpredictability in the volatile "substance" for which these languages use the single word.
Yes, that makes sense. Statistics: Posted by grogers — April 1st, 2014, 12:18 pm
 
Jonathan Robie wrote: Really? Check out the translations of the passages listed for various senses here: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/resources ... mith.html#πνεῦμα
Thanks a lot for the link. This is a bigger help than biblehub. Statistics: Posted by grogers — April 1st, 2014, 12:16 pm
 
grogers wrote: ... in the 383 times that πνεῦμα appears in the NT in its various forms, it is translated as spirit in every case except in John 3:8.
Really? Check out the translations of the passages listed for various senses here: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/resources ... mith.html#πνεῦμα Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — April 1st, 2014, 11:50 am
 
grogers wrote:
It's a contextual issue. πνεὖμα here is the subject of πνεἶ, and this would trigger in the mind of most readers which part of the semantic range of πνεὖμα is in the author's mind. There is also the comparison. To understand πνεὖμα here as "Spirit" would rob the analogy of its force.
Well, possibly, but isn't the force of this analogy created solely on the translation of πνεὖμα as wind? I understand the various possible rendering of πνεὖμα but what would this change in one's understanding of this verse if it is translated "The spirit breaths where it wills"?
Perhaps I'm simply saying what's obvious, but the fact that πνευμα in Greek, like ruach in Hebrew and spiritus in Latin, is a metaphoric extension from verbs in these same languages that can mean both "blow" and "breathe" would seem to indicate that the analogy is being drawn to comparable instances of unpredictability in the volatile "substance" for which these languages use the single word. Statistics: Posted by cwconrad — April 1st, 2014, 11:47 am
 
It's a contextual issue. πνεὖμα here is the subject of πνεἶ, and this would trigger in the mind of most readers which part of the semantic range of πνεὖμα is in the author's mind. There is also the comparison. To understand πνεὖμα here as "Spirit" would rob the analogy of its force.
Well, possibly, but isn't the force of this analogy created solely on the translation of πνεὖμα as wind? I understand the various possible rendering of πνεὖμα but what would this change in one's understanding of this verse if it is translated "The spirit breaths where it wills"? Statistics: Posted by grogers — April 1st, 2014, 10:49 am
 
grogers wrote: Perhaps someone can offer me an explanation for what seems to be a overwhelmingly accepted translation of the this verse by the body of scholarship. In the vast majority of the English translations τὸ πνεῦμα ὅπου θέλει πνεῖ is translated as "The wind blows where it wishes." I find this rather interesting since in the 383 times that πνεῦμα appears in the NT in its various forms, it is translated as spirit in every case except in John 3:8. Is there something I am missing here?
It's a contextual issue. πνεὖμα here is the subject of πνεἶ, and this would trigger in the mind of most readers which part of the semantic range of πνεὖμα is in the author's mind. There is also the comparison. To understand πνεὖμα here as "Spirit" would rob the analogy of its force. Statistics: Posted by Barry Hofstetter — April 1st, 2014, 10:30 am
Perhaps someone can offer me an explanation for what seems to be a overwhelmingly accepted translation of the this verse by the body of scholarship. In the vast majority of the English translations τὸ πνεῦμα ὅπου θέλει πνεῖ is translated as "The wind blows where it wishes." I find this rather interesting since in the 383 times that πνεῦμα appears in the NT in its various forms, it is translated as spirit in every case except in John 3:8. Is there something I am missing here? Statistics: Posted by grogers — April 1st, 2014, 9:57 am