John 5:26

John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Sat May 8 19:10:12 EDT 1999

Hebrews 11:1 Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ? HiHow is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this refer to theincarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as some have evensuggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN make sense in htelight of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the translation*granted*–does any one else?John===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Hebrews 11:1Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ?

John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Sat May 8 19:10:12 EDT 1999

Hebrews 11:1 Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ? HiHow is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this refer to theincarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as some have evensuggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN make sense in htelight of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the translation*granted*–does any one else?John===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Hebrews 11:1Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ?

John 5:26 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun May 9 08:35:56 EDT 1999

Hebrews 11:1 Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ? At 4:10 PM -0700 5/8/99, John Oaklands wrote:>Hi> >How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this refer to the>incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as some have even>suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN make sense in hte>light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the translation>*granted*–does any one else?There’s more than one question here; I’m hoping I can leave aside thehermeneutical one and concentrate on the grammatical one–it just maypossibly be that the hermeneutical question will fall into place when thegrammatical question is resolved.hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTWi,hOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi.My understanding is that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi in the consecutive clause isfunctioning as an articular infinitive (without the article), i.e. as asubstantive implicitly in the accusative and functioning, as a whole, asthe direct object of EDWKEN.Now the question is “What does it mean ‘to have life within oneself.’ Whileit COULD mean no more than “to be alive,” yet that hardly seems worthenunciating. Now the context in John 5 is the power of the Son of Man to bethe judge of humanity, and perhaps KRINW here means “condemn.” In fact,consider how 5:27 is parallel to 5:26KAIAUTWi EDWKENEXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEINhOTI hUIOS ANQRWPOU ESTIN.I would understand the phrases EXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEIN and ZWHN ECEIN ENhEAUTWi as parallel to each other and to refer to the two kinds ofauthority exercised by the Son of Man: to give new life and to condemn. Thenew life comes to those who welcome and give heed to the Son of Man,alternatively the condemnation comes to those reject the Son of Man andfail to heed his commandment.I think that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi means “to have the power of makingalive.” I don’t want to go into a lengthy discourse on the theology ofJohn’s gospel, which does not belong in this forum and would very likelyprovoke considerable discussion in its own right; rather I simply callattention to the passages elsewhere in John that seem to me consistent withthis way of understanding that phrase: Jn 1:10-12 and Jn 20:21-22 where therisen Christ gives the Spirit to the assembled disciples as described inthe verb ENEFUSHSEN which deliberately echoes, I believe the LXX verb inGenesis 2:7 describing the giving of life to Adam. Of course here Jesus,with the gift of the Spirit, is simultaneously bestowing new life upon thedisciples AND empowering them to exercise judgment also (20:23).To summarize, I don’t think that EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN refers to theincarnation as such but rather to the power and authority to give new life:that is a power and authority that the Father possesses and which hebestowed (EDWKEN) on the Son.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

Hebrews 11:1Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ?

John 5:26 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun May 9 08:35:56 EDT 1999

Hebrews 11:1 Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ? At 4:10 PM -0700 5/8/99, John Oaklands wrote:>Hi> >How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this refer to the>incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as some have even>suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN make sense in hte>light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the translation>*granted*–does any one else?There’s more than one question here; I’m hoping I can leave aside thehermeneutical one and concentrate on the grammatical one–it just maypossibly be that the hermeneutical question will fall into place when thegrammatical question is resolved.hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTWi,hOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi.My understanding is that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi in the consecutive clause isfunctioning as an articular infinitive (without the article), i.e. as asubstantive implicitly in the accusative and functioning, as a whole, asthe direct object of EDWKEN.Now the question is “What does it mean ‘to have life within oneself.’ Whileit COULD mean no more than “to be alive,” yet that hardly seems worthenunciating. Now the context in John 5 is the power of the Son of Man to bethe judge of humanity, and perhaps KRINW here means “condemn.” In fact,consider how 5:27 is parallel to 5:26KAIAUTWi EDWKENEXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEINhOTI hUIOS ANQRWPOU ESTIN.I would understand the phrases EXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEIN and ZWHN ECEIN ENhEAUTWi as parallel to each other and to refer to the two kinds ofauthority exercised by the Son of Man: to give new life and to condemn. Thenew life comes to those who welcome and give heed to the Son of Man,alternatively the condemnation comes to those reject the Son of Man andfail to heed his commandment.I think that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi means “to have the power of makingalive.” I don’t want to go into a lengthy discourse on the theology ofJohn’s gospel, which does not belong in this forum and would very likelyprovoke considerable discussion in its own right; rather I simply callattention to the passages elsewhere in John that seem to me consistent withthis way of understanding that phrase: Jn 1:10-12 and Jn 20:21-22 where therisen Christ gives the Spirit to the assembled disciples as described inthe verb ENEFUSHSEN which deliberately echoes, I believe the LXX verb inGenesis 2:7 describing the giving of life to Adam. Of course here Jesus,with the gift of the Spirit, is simultaneously bestowing new life upon thedisciples AND empowering them to exercise judgment also (20:23).To summarize, I don’t think that EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN refers to theincarnation as such but rather to the power and authority to give new life:that is a power and authority that the Father possesses and which hebestowed (EDWKEN) on the Son.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

Hebrews 11:1Does Mark 8:7 use an imperative infinitive’ ?

John 5:26 George Blaisdell maqhth at hotmail.com
Sun May 9 14:35:12 EDT 1999

Hebrews 11:1 dia + genitive >From: John Oaklands>HiHello John ~>How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this refer to the>incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as some have even>suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN make sense in the>light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the translation>*granted*–does any one else?hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTWhOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWFor just as the Father is having life in HimselfThusly even to the Son He gives life in Himself.I think it does refer to EN AUTWi ZWH HN in 1:4, although I have always understood 1:4 to be pre or pan incarnational ~ That is, a permanent attribution of hO LOGOS, who did incarnate.Here he simply seems to be attributing the giving of His life that is in Himself to the Father, who is the source of His having it in himself.The HN of 1:4 I have taken to mean ‘has always been and continues to be and will continue to be’ ~ At least in terms or our experience of time. HN places Him ‘prior’ to ARCH [beginning]. As God’s Word in the creation, His source is God, who “EDWKEN” to Him life.There are surely ressurrectional implications to all this, but this little passage does not seem to address them. The rest of this section, however, clearly does. [5:21, 28-9, etc.]Am I addressing your question?George BlaisdellRoslyn, WA_______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Hebrews 11:1dia + genitive

John 5:26 George Blaisdell maqhth at hotmail.com
Sun May 9 14:35:12 EDT 1999

Hebrews 11:1 dia + genitive >From: John Oaklands>HiHello John ~>How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this refer to the>incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as some have even>suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN make sense in the>light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the translation>*granted*–does any one else?hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTWhOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWFor just as the Father is having life in HimselfThusly even to the Son He gives life in Himself.I think it does refer to EN AUTWi ZWH HN in 1:4, although I have always understood 1:4 to be pre or pan incarnational ~ That is, a permanent attribution of hO LOGOS, who did incarnate.Here he simply seems to be attributing the giving of His life that is in Himself to the Father, who is the source of His having it in himself.The HN of 1:4 I have taken to mean ‘has always been and continues to be and will continue to be’ ~ At least in terms or our experience of time. HN places Him ‘prior’ to ARCH [beginning]. As God’s Word in the creation, His source is God, who “EDWKEN” to Him life.There are surely ressurrectional implications to all this, but this little passage does not seem to address them. The rest of this section, however, clearly does. [5:21, 28-9, etc.]Am I addressing your question?George BlaisdellRoslyn, WA_______________________________________________________________Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Hebrews 11:1dia + genitive

John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Sun May 9 21:17:26 EDT 1999

John 5:26 classical greek Thank you Carl for this enlightening and challenging material. I likeyour reference to parallel structures here. I was also interested inyour understanding of EDWKEN as to giving life. I found the parallelwith v. 27 also meaningful. I agree with you about keeping out of thetheological ramifications. I want to give your reply some more thoughtyet of course. However, how do you arrive at “condemn” for KRINW? Should we see any difference between KRISIS and KRIMA?John— “Carl W. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:> At 4:10 PM -0700 5/8/99, John Oaklands wrote:> >Hi> >> >How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this> refer to the> >incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as> some have even> >suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN> make sense in hte> >light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the> translation> >*granted*–does any one else?> > There’s more than one question here; I’m hoping I> can leave aside the> hermeneutical one and concentrate on the grammatical> one–it just may> possibly be that the hermeneutical question will> fall into place when the> grammatical question is resolved.> > hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTWi,> hOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN> hEAUTWi.> > My understanding is that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi in> the consecutive clause is> functioning as an articular infinitive (without the> article), i.e. as a> substantive implicitly in the accusative and> functioning, as a whole, as> the direct object of EDWKEN.> > Now the question is “What does it mean ‘to have life> within oneself.’ While> it COULD mean no more than “to be alive,” yet that> hardly seems worth> enunciating. Now the context in John 5 is the power> of the Son of Man to be> the judge of humanity, and perhaps KRINW here means> “condemn.” In fact,> consider how 5:27 is parallel to 5:26> > KAIAUTWi EDWKENEXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEIN> hOTI hUIOS ANQRWPOU ESTIN.> > I would understand the phrases EXOUSIAN KRISIN> POIEIN and ZWHN ECEIN EN> hEAUTWi as parallel to each other and to refer to> the two kinds of> authority exercised by the Son of Man: to give new> life and to condemn. The> new life comes to those who welcome and give heed to> the Son of Man,> alternatively the condemnation comes to those reject> the Son of Man and> fail to heed his commandment.> > I think that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi means “to have> the power of making> alive.” I don’t want to go into a lengthy discourse> on the theology of> John’s gospel, which does not belong in this forum> and would very likely> provoke considerable discussion in its own right;> rather I simply call> attention to the passages elsewhere in John that> seem to me consistent with> this way of understanding that phrase: Jn 1:10-12> and Jn 20:21-22 where the> risen Christ gives the Spirit to the assembled> disciples as described in> the verb ENEFUSHSEN which deliberately echoes, I> believe the LXX verb in> Genesis 2:7 describing the giving of life to Adam.> Of course here Jesus,> with the gift of the Spirit, is simultaneously> bestowing new life upon the> disciples AND empowering them to exercise judgment> also (20:23).> > To summarize, I don’t think that EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN> refers to the> incarnation as such but rather to the power and> authority to give new life:> that is a power and authority that the Father> possesses and which he> bestowed (EDWKEN) on the Son.> > > Carl W. Conrad> Department of Classics, Washington University> Summer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC> 28714/(828) 675-4243> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/> ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

John 5:26classical greek

John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Sun May 9 20:56:12 EDT 1999

Ekklesia John 5:26 Thank you George. You seem to me to be on track and what you wrote isquite helpful.John— George Blaisdell <maqhth at hotmail.com> wrote:> > > >From: John Oaklands> > >Hi> > Hello John ~> > >How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this> refer to the> >incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as> some have even> >suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN> make sense in the> >light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the> translation> >*granted*–does any one else?> > hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTW> hOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTW> > For just as the Father is having life in Himself> Thusly even to the Son He gives life in Himself.> > I think it does refer to EN AUTWi ZWH HN in 1:4,> although I have always > understood 1:4 to be pre or pan incarnational ~ That> is, a permanent > attribution of hO LOGOS, who did incarnate.> > Here he simply seems to be attributing the giving of> His life that is in > Himself to the Father, who is the source of His> having it in himself.> > The HN of 1:4 I have taken to mean ‘has always been> and continues to be and > will continue to be’ ~ At least in terms or our> experience of time. HN > places Him ‘prior’ to ARCH [beginning]. As God’s> Word in the creation, His > source is God, who “EDWKEN” to Him life.> > There are surely ressurrectional implications to all> this, but this little > passage does not seem to address them. The rest of> this section, however, > clearly does. [5:21, 28-9, etc.]> > Am I addressing your question?> > > George Blaisdell> Roslyn, WA> > > _______________________________________________________________> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit> http://www.msn.com> >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as:> j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au> To unsubscribe, forward this message to> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to> subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

EkklesiaJohn 5:26

John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Sun May 9 20:56:12 EDT 1999

Ekklesia John 5:26 Thank you George. You seem to me to be on track and what you wrote isquite helpful.John— George Blaisdell <maqhth at hotmail.com> wrote:> > > >From: John Oaklands> > >Hi> > Hello John ~> > >How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this> refer to the> >incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as> some have even> >suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN> make sense in the> >light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the> translation> >*granted*–does any one else?> > hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTW> hOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTW> > For just as the Father is having life in Himself> Thusly even to the Son He gives life in Himself.> > I think it does refer to EN AUTWi ZWH HN in 1:4,> although I have always > understood 1:4 to be pre or pan incarnational ~ That> is, a permanent > attribution of hO LOGOS, who did incarnate.> > Here he simply seems to be attributing the giving of> His life that is in > Himself to the Father, who is the source of His> having it in himself.> > The HN of 1:4 I have taken to mean ‘has always been> and continues to be and > will continue to be’ ~ At least in terms or our> experience of time. HN > places Him ‘prior’ to ARCH [beginning]. As God’s> Word in the creation, His > source is God, who “EDWKEN” to Him life.> > There are surely ressurrectional implications to all> this, but this little > passage does not seem to address them. The rest of> this section, however, > clearly does. [5:21, 28-9, etc.]> > Am I addressing your question?> > > George Blaisdell> Roslyn, WA> > > _______________________________________________________________> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit> http://www.msn.com> >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as:> j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au> To unsubscribe, forward this message to> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to> subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

EkklesiaJohn 5:26

John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Sun May 9 21:17:26 EDT 1999

John 5:26 classical greek Thank you Carl for this enlightening and challenging material. I likeyour reference to parallel structures here. I was also interested inyour understanding of EDWKEN as to giving life. I found the parallelwith v. 27 also meaningful. I agree with you about keeping out of thetheological ramifications. I want to give your reply some more thoughtyet of course. However, how do you arrive at “condemn” for KRINW? Should we see any difference between KRISIS and KRIMA?John— “Carl W. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:> At 4:10 PM -0700 5/8/99, John Oaklands wrote:> >Hi> >> >How is EDWKEN understood in John 5:26? Does this> refer to the> >incarnation as of John 1:4 EN AUTWi ZWH HN or, as> some have even> >suggested, to the resurrection? How does EDWKEN> make sense in hte> >light of John 1:4? I even have trouble with the> translation> >*granted*–does any one else?> > There’s more than one question here; I’m hoping I> can leave aside the> hermeneutical one and concentrate on the grammatical> one–it just may> possibly be that the hermeneutical question will> fall into place when the> grammatical question is resolved.> > hWSPER GAR hO PATHR ECEI ZWHN EN hEAUTWi,> hOUTWS KAI TWi hUIWi EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN EN> hEAUTWi.> > My understanding is that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi in> the consecutive clause is> functioning as an articular infinitive (without the> article), i.e. as a> substantive implicitly in the accusative and> functioning, as a whole, as> the direct object of EDWKEN.> > Now the question is “What does it mean ‘to have life> within oneself.’ While> it COULD mean no more than “to be alive,” yet that> hardly seems worth> enunciating. Now the context in John 5 is the power> of the Son of Man to be> the judge of humanity, and perhaps KRINW here means> “condemn.” In fact,> consider how 5:27 is parallel to 5:26> > KAIAUTWi EDWKENEXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEIN> hOTI hUIOS ANQRWPOU ESTIN.> > I would understand the phrases EXOUSIAN KRISIN> POIEIN and ZWHN ECEIN EN> hEAUTWi as parallel to each other and to refer to> the two kinds of> authority exercised by the Son of Man: to give new> life and to condemn. The> new life comes to those who welcome and give heed to> the Son of Man,> alternatively the condemnation comes to those reject> the Son of Man and> fail to heed his commandment.> > I think that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi means “to have> the power of making> alive.” I don’t want to go into a lengthy discourse> on the theology of> John’s gospel, which does not belong in this forum> and would very likely> provoke considerable discussion in its own right;> rather I simply call> attention to the passages elsewhere in John that> seem to me consistent with> this way of understanding that phrase: Jn 1:10-12> and Jn 20:21-22 where the> risen Christ gives the Spirit to the assembled> disciples as described in> the verb ENEFUSHSEN which deliberately echoes, I> believe the LXX verb in> Genesis 2:7 describing the giving of life to Adam.> Of course here Jesus,> with the gift of the Spirit, is simultaneously> bestowing new life upon the> disciples AND empowering them to exercise judgment> also (20:23).> > To summarize, I don’t think that EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN> refers to the> incarnation as such but rather to the power and> authority to give new life:> that is a power and authority that the Father> possesses and which he> bestowed (EDWKEN) on the Son.> > > Carl W. Conrad> Department of Classics, Washington University> Summer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC> 28714/(828) 675-4243> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/> ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

John 5:26classical greek

John 5:26 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun May 9 21:51:11 EDT 1999

Heb 2:17 classical greek At 6:17 PM -0700 5/9/99, John Oaklands wrote:>Thank you Carl for this enlightening and challenging material. I like>your reference to parallel structures here. I was also interested in>your understanding of EDWKEN as to giving life. I found the parallel>with v. 27 also meaningful. I agree with you about keeping out of the>theological ramifications. I want to give your reply some more thought>yet of course. However, how do you arrive at “condemn” for KRINW?>Should we see any difference between KRISIS and KRIMA?While properly speaking KATAKRINW is used for condemn, yet in quite commonusage KRINW and KRISIS are used negatively, as also, far more often than wemay be aware, “judge” and “justice” are used negatively: this is clearlythe case in Mt 7:1 MH KRINETE, KAI OU MH KRIQHTE and I think it is verycommon in Hellenistic Greek. In John’s gospel KRISIS is a major theme, butas I read John, the functions of the Son of Man are twofold andantithetical: to judge/condemn and to give life; as I said before, this isall part of a much larger context of eschatological language and conceptsthat have a rather distinct focus in John’s gospel; KRINW and KRISIS alsoinvolve a notion of discrimination, discernment, distinction–and I thinkthat in one sense the primeval separation of the light from the darkness ofGenesis 1 finds its parallel in the roles of Light and Darkness in theJohannine prologue–but the more important KRISIS performed by Jesus (whoIS the Light) in John is the separation of the SEEING from the BLIND, i.e.,of those who see the Light and come to him, and of those who fail torecognize and welcome him. KRIMA and KRISIS should be seen partly in termsof the formative elements: -SIS yields normally a verbal noun for theaction of the verb–hence KRISIS is ‘judging’ or ‘distinguishing’; -THS (orTHR or TWR) yields normally an agent noun–hence KRITHS, the ‘judge’ or’the one sitting in judgment’; -MA normally yields a verbal noun referringto the object or result of the verbal action–hence KRIMA is the verdictgiven by the KRITHS, and in the negative sense is “condemnation.” I thinkthat a brief study of these words in the lexicon as well as examination ofseveral of the passages containing them such as listed in a concordance isvery instructive, but it also helps to know something about standardpatterns of Greek word-formation.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

Heb 2:17classical greek

John 5:26 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun May 9 21:51:11 EDT 1999

Heb 2:17 classical greek At 6:17 PM -0700 5/9/99, John Oaklands wrote:>Thank you Carl for this enlightening and challenging material. I like>your reference to parallel structures here. I was also interested in>your understanding of EDWKEN as to giving life. I found the parallel>with v. 27 also meaningful. I agree with you about keeping out of the>theological ramifications. I want to give your reply some more thought>yet of course. However, how do you arrive at “condemn” for KRINW?>Should we see any difference between KRISIS and KRIMA?While properly speaking KATAKRINW is used for condemn, yet in quite commonusage KRINW and KRISIS are used negatively, as also, far more often than wemay be aware, “judge” and “justice” are used negatively: this is clearlythe case in Mt 7:1 MH KRINETE, KAI OU MH KRIQHTE and I think it is verycommon in Hellenistic Greek. In John’s gospel KRISIS is a major theme, butas I read John, the functions of the Son of Man are twofold andantithetical: to judge/condemn and to give life; as I said before, this isall part of a much larger context of eschatological language and conceptsthat have a rather distinct focus in John’s gospel; KRINW and KRISIS alsoinvolve a notion of discrimination, discernment, distinction–and I thinkthat in one sense the primeval separation of the light from the darkness ofGenesis 1 finds its parallel in the roles of Light and Darkness in theJohannine prologue–but the more important KRISIS performed by Jesus (whoIS the Light) in John is the separation of the SEEING from the BLIND, i.e.,of those who see the Light and come to him, and of those who fail torecognize and welcome him. KRIMA and KRISIS should be seen partly in termsof the formative elements: -SIS yields normally a verbal noun for theaction of the verb–hence KRISIS is ‘judging’ or ‘distinguishing’; -THS (orTHR or TWR) yields normally an agent noun–hence KRITHS, the ‘judge’ or’the one sitting in judgment’; -MA normally yields a verbal noun referringto the object or result of the verbal action–hence KRIMA is the verdictgiven by the KRITHS, and in the negative sense is “condemnation.” I thinkthat a brief study of these words in the lexicon as well as examination ofseveral of the passages containing them such as listed in a concordance isvery instructive, but it also helps to know something about standardpatterns of Greek word-formation.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

Heb 2:17classical greek

classical greek, John 5:26 TonyProst at aol.com TonyProst at aol.com
Mon May 10 13:44:10 EDT 1999

Computer Virus: Apologies John 5:26 For your interest, here is the paraphrase of John 5:26, written approx. 450 AD by Nonnos of Panopolis, probably in ALexandria.V:100ho^sper gar genete^s methepei pamme^tora kosmouzo^e^n, he^s apo pasi biossoon asthma titaneihouto^ pammedeonti kai huiei do^ke komizeinRegards,Tony ProstAll Nonnos All Dayhttp://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html

Computer Virus: ApologiesJohn 5:26

classical greek, John 5:26 TonyProst at aol.com TonyProst at aol.com
Mon May 10 13:44:10 EDT 1999

Computer Virus: Apologies John 5:26 For your interest, here is the paraphrase of John 5:26, written approx. 450 AD by Nonnos of Panopolis, probably in ALexandria.V:100ho^sper gar genete^s methepei pamme^tora kosmouzo^e^n, he^s apo pasi biossoon asthma titaneihouto^ pammedeonti kai huiei do^ke komizeinRegards,Tony ProstAll Nonnos All Dayhttp://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html

Computer Virus: ApologiesJohn 5:26

John 5:26 lakr lakr at netcom.com
Mon May 10 16:55:50 EDT 1999

classical greek, John 5:26 classical greek, John 5:26 > I think it does refer to EN AUTWi ZWH HN in 1:4George,The complete phrase is ‘.hO GEGONEN EN AUTWi ZWH HN’. I had not ever connected this to John 5:26, it makes sense. Thanks all!Larry Kruper

classical greek, John 5:26classical greek, John 5:26

classical greek, John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Mon May 10 17:34:30 EDT 1999

John 5:26 Heb 2:17 Thank you for that, Tony. Very interesting. John— TonyProst at aol.com wrote:> For your interest, here is the paraphrase of John> 5:26, written approx. 450 > AD by Nonnos of Panopolis, probably in ALexandria.> > V:100> > ho^sper gar genete^s methepei pamme^tora kosmou> zo^e^n, he^s apo pasi biossoon asthma titanei> houto^ pammedeonti kai huiei do^ke komizein> > > Regards,> Tony Prost> All Nonnos All Day> http://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html> > >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as:> j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au> To unsubscribe, forward this message to> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to> subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

John 5:26Heb 2:17

John 5:26 lakr lakr at netcom.com
Mon May 10 16:55:50 EDT 1999

classical greek, John 5:26 classical greek, John 5:26 > I think it does refer to EN AUTWi ZWH HN in 1:4George,The complete phrase is ‘.hO GEGONEN EN AUTWi ZWH HN’. I had not ever connected this to John 5:26, it makes sense. Thanks all!Larry Kruper

classical greek, John 5:26classical greek, John 5:26

classical greek, John 5:26 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Mon May 10 17:34:30 EDT 1999

John 5:26 Heb 2:17 Thank you for that, Tony. Very interesting. John— TonyProst at aol.com wrote:> For your interest, here is the paraphrase of John> 5:26, written approx. 450 > AD by Nonnos of Panopolis, probably in ALexandria.> > V:100> > ho^sper gar genete^s methepei pamme^tora kosmou> zo^e^n, he^s apo pasi biossoon asthma titanei> houto^ pammedeonti kai huiei do^ke komizein> > > Regards,> Tony Prost> All Nonnos All Day> http://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html> > >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as:> j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au> To unsubscribe, forward this message to> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to> subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

John 5:26Heb 2:17

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2 thoughts on “John 5:26

  1. Troy Day says:

    In fact,consider how 5:27 is parallel to 5:26KAIAUTWi EDWKENEXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEINhOTI hUIOS ANQRWPOU ESTIN.I would understand the phrases EXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEIN and ZWHN ECEIN ENhEAUTWi as parallel to each other and to refer to the two kinds ofauthority exercised by the Son of Man: to give new life and to condemn. Thenew life comes to those who welcome and give heed to the Son of Man,alternatively the condemnation comes to those reject the Son of Man andfail to heed his commandment.I think that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi means “to have the power of makingalive.” I don’t want to go into a lengthy discourse on the theology ofJohn’s gospel, which does not belong in this forum and would very likelyprovoke considerable discussion in its own right; rather I simply callattention to the passages elsewhere in John that seem to me consistent withthis way of understanding that phrase: Jn 1:10-12 and Jn 20:21-22 where therisen Christ gives the Spirit to the assembled disciples as described inthe verb ENEFUSHSEN which deliberately echoes, I believe the LXX verb inGenesis 2:7 describing the giving of life to Adam. Of course here Jesus,with the gift of the Spirit, is simultaneously bestowing new life upon thedisciples AND empowering them to exercise judgment also (20:23).To summarize, I don’t think that EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN refers to theincarnation as such but rather to the power and authority to give new life:that is a power and authority that the Father possesses and which hebestowed (EDWKEN) on the SON

  2. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    In fact,consider how 5:27 is parallel to 5:26KAIAUTWi EDWKENEXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEINhOTI hUIOS ANQRWPOU ESTIN.I would understand the phrases EXOUSIAN KRISIN POIEIN and ZWHN ECEIN ENhEAUTWi as parallel to each other and to refer to the two kinds ofauthority exercised by the Son of Man: to give new life and to condemn. Thenew life comes to those who welcome and give heed to the Son of Man,alternatively the condemnation comes to those reject the Son of Man andfail to heed his commandment.I think that ZWHN ECEIN EN hEAUTWi means “to have the power of makingalive.” I don’t want to go into a lengthy discourse on the theology ofJohn’s gospel, which does not belong in this forum and would very likelyprovoke considerable discussion in its own right; rather I simply callattention to the passages elsewhere in John that seem to me consistent withthis way of understanding that phrase: Jn 1:10-12 and Jn 20:21-22 where therisen Christ gives the Spirit to the assembled disciples as described inthe verb ENEFUSHSEN which deliberately echoes, I believe the LXX verb inGenesis 2:7 describing the giving of life to Adam. Of course here Jesus,with the gift of the Spirit, is simultaneously bestowing new life upon thedisciples AND empowering them to exercise judgment also (20:23).To summarize, I don’t think that EDWKEN ZWHN ECEIN refers to theincarnation as such but rather to the power and authority to give new life:that is a power and authority that the Father possesses and which hebestowed (EDWKEN) on the SON

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