Matthew 23:9

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father Jay Adkins jayadkins264 at gmail.com
Sat May 8 05:20:35 EDT 2010

[] οὔτις ἔσθ’ ὃς οὔ S.Ajax 725 & Jn 1:3 [] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father Can some please explain to me why most English translations translate Matt23:9b as they do.Matt 23:9b (GNT) …. EIS GAR ESTIN hUMWN hO PATHR hO OURANIOSMatt 23:9b (NASU) …. for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.Matt 23:9b (NIV) …. for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.Matt 23:9b (NRA) …. for you have one Father-the one in heaven.Matt 23:9b (RSV) …. for you have one Father, who is in heaven.Matt 23:9b (WEB) …. for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.Matt 23:9b (ESV) …. for you have one Father, who is in heaven.When I read it, I understood it as;Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father.Only the WEY is close to my understanding;Matt 23:9b (WEY) ….for One alone is your Father–the Heavenly Father.Thank you for any assistance.Sola Gratia,jay adkins

[] οὔτις ἔσθ’ ὃς οὔ S.Ajax 725 & Jn 1:3[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 8 07:32:21 EDT 2010

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father [] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father On May 8, 2010, at 5:20 AM, Jay Adkins wrote:> Can some please explain to me why most English translations translate Matt> 23:9b as they do.> > Matt 23:9b (GNT) …. EIS GAR ESTIN hUMWN hO PATHR hO OURANIOS> > Matt 23:9b (NASU) …. for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.> Matt 23:9b (NIV) …. for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.> Matt 23:9b (NRA) …. for you have one Father-the one in heaven.> Matt 23:9b (RSV) …. for you have one Father, who is in heaven.> Matt 23:9b (WEB) …. for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.> Matt 23:9b (ESV) …. for you have one Father, who is in heaven.> > When I read it, I understood it as;> Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father.> > Only the WEY is close to my understanding;> Matt 23:9b (WEY) ….for One alone is your Father–the Heavenly Father.> > Thank you for any assistance.As happens not infrequently, it’s hard to tell whether the question is about what theGreek text means or about how it should be Englished. Evidently you seem to bethinking that there’s only one way it should be Englished and that in terms of what’sordinarily called “formal equivalence.”For my part, I think all the versions you’ve cited are accurate in conveying thesense of the Greek text, although I think that NASU and WEB are both ratherstrange and questionable English phrasing, even if intelligible.In terms of traditional grammatical analysis, I would understand hUMWN hOPATHR hO OURANIOS as the subject and hEIS ESTIN as the predicate (hEISas the predicate nominative).Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father Michael Baber illuminatiaries at yahoo.com
Sat May 8 10:01:24 EDT 2010

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father [] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father I’ve never noticed the textual disparity between the Textus Receptus and the Wescott-Hort/ GNT for this verse.The Textus Receptus:εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖςEIS GAR ESTIN hO PATHR hUMON hO EN TOIS OURANOIS”…for one is our Father who is in heaven.”The Westcott-Hort/ GNT:εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὑμῶν ὁ πατὴρ ὁ οὐράνιος EIS GAR ESTIN hUMON hO PATHR hO OURANIOS”…for one is our heavenly Father.”That’s definitely evidence of an intentional scribal alteration. Nevertheless, they do essentially mean the same thing. And, that is why there is a difference in the English translations. Just depends what Greek text they’re translating from.

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 8 12:13:51 EDT 2010

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father [] Hellas speak On May 8, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Michael Baber wrote:> I’ve never noticed the textual disparity between > the Textus Receptus and the Wescott-Hort/ GNT for this verse.> > The Textus Receptus:> εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς> EIS GAR ESTIN hO PATHR hUMON hO EN TOIS OURANOIS> “…for one is our Father who is in heaven.”> > The Westcott-Hort/ GNT:> εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὑμῶν ὁ πατὴρ ὁ οὐράνιος > EIS GAR ESTIN hUMON hO PATHR hO OURANIOS> “…for one is our heavenly Father.”> > That’s definitely evidence of an intentional scribal alteration. Nevertheless, they do essentially mean the same thing. And, that is why there is a difference in the English translations. Just depends what Greek text they’re translating from.But can you tell definitively from the English versions which Greek text they’re reading?Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

[] Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father[] Hellas speak

Matthew 23:8-10 Brian Swedburg brian at discoveryhills.org
Wed Apr 26 18:04:29 EDT 2000

Previous message: Matthew 23:8-10 Next message: 1 John 3:11 Mike Sangrey wrote:> Matthew 23:8-10:> hUMEIS DE MH KLHQHTE, hRABBI, hEIS GAR ESTIN hUMWN hO DIDASKALOS,> PANTES DE hUMEIS ADELFOI ESTE. KAI PATERA MH KALESHTE hUMWN EPI> THS GHS, hEIS GAR ESTIN hUMWN hO PATHR hO OURANIOS. MHDE KLHQHTE> KAQHGHTAI, hOTI KAQHGHTHS hUMWN ESTIN hEIS hO XRISTOS.> > Does anyone have a pointer or insight into what words hRABBI, PATHR,> and KAQHGHTHS meant to a first century Jew? Specifically how those> words are used in this context. I take them to be titles, and if> that is true, what did these people do?> Greetings Mike and co., What struck me in reading the text was the hyperbolic nature of Jesus’prohibition. Even Jesus uses the term PATHR to refer to “mortals” at times. This combination of hyperbole and imperative causes me to lean towards yourimpression that these are titles which are not to be sought by religious leaders whowish to sit and speak with the authority of Moses, when they should be humble beforeGod and their brothers.Thanks,Brian> > ————– next part ————–An HTML attachment was scrubbed…URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//attachments/20000426/9191b682/attachment.html

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Matthew 23:8-10 Polycarp66 at aol.com Polycarp66 at aol.com
Wed Apr 26 20:32:53 EDT 2000

Previous message: 1 John 3:11 Next message: 1 John 3:11 In a message dated 4/26/2000 3:08:59 PM Central Standard Time, mike at sojurn.lns.pa.us writes:<< Does anyone have a pointer or insight into what words hRABBI, PATHR, and KAQHGHTHS meant to a first century Jew? >>TEACHERIn reverse order. I don’t find the noun used outside the NT. Strabo, however, an older contemporary of Christ (not Jewish) used the aorist participle of the verb KAQHGEOMAI {bracketed].hOUTOI MEN STWIKOI ANDRES; AKADHMAIKOS DE NESTWR hO KAQ’ hHMAS hO MARKELLOU [ KAQHGHSAMENOS ] TOU OKTAOUIS PAIDOS, THS KAISAROS ADELFHS. KAI hOUTOS DE PROESTH THS POLITEIAS DIADECAMENOS TON AQHNODWRON, KAI DIETELESE TIMWMENOS [ARA TE TPOS hHGEMOSI KAI EN THi POLEI.These men were Stoics; but the Nestor of my time, the [ teacher ] of Marcellus, son of Octavia the sister of Caesar, was an Academician. He too was at the head of the government of Tarsus, having succeeded Athenodorus; and he continued to be held in honor both by the prefects and in the city.Geography 14.5.14Here’s something interesting though. Lev. 8.9 in the LXX readsKAI EPEQHKEN THN MITRAN EPI THN KEFALN AUTOU KAI EPEQHKEN EPI THN MITRAN KATA PROSWPOSN AUTOU TO PETALON TO XRUSOUN TO KAQHGISMENON hAGION, hON TROPON SUNETACEN KURIOS TWi MWUSHiThe Hebrew N”ZeR is the word translated by KAQHGISMENON. This is variously translated as a diadem or consecration or Nazirite. I wonder if it has more relation to the usage in the LXX than in Greek literature. I haven’t had a chance to check this out, but it’s a thought.FATHERThe LXX of 1 Sam 10.11, 12 reads11 KAI EGENHQHSAN PANTES hOI EIDOTES AUTON EXQES KAI TRITHN KAI EIDON KAI IDOU AUTOS EN MESWi TWN PROFHTWN, KAI EIPEN hO LAOS hEKASTOS PROS TON PLHSION AUTOU TI TOUTO TO GEGONOS TWi hUIWi KIS H KAI SAOUL EN PROFHTAIS12 KAI APEKRIQH TIS AUTWN KAI EIPEN KAI TIS PATHR AUTOU DIA TOUTO EGENHQH EIS PARABOLHN H KAI SAOUL EN PROFHTAIS.The leader of the prophetic band seems to have been known as the father.RabbiRabbi seems to derive from the Hebrew RaB meaning “chief.” A humorous usage of this (if I’m not misunderstanding it) is in 2 Kings 25.8 which is normally translated “captain of the guard” The Hebrew is RaB_+aB.fXiYM. This seems to mean “chief of butchers.” Obviously, a well-liked guy.gfsomsel

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Matthew 23:8-10 Michael Abernathy mabernat at cub.kcnet.org
Wed Apr 26 23:32:48 EDT 2000

Previous message: Fronting & Constituent Order Next message: Summer Institute in NT Textual Criticism Mike Sangery asked,”Does anyone have a pointer or insight into what words hRABBI, PATHR, and KAQHGHTHS meant to a first century Jew?”Solomon J. Solomon wrote an interesting article on this in Jewish Quarterly Review vol 13 (1900-1901). Briefly, Solomon gave some reasons to support the proposition that first century Jews used PATHR approximately the same way we would use “saint.” Solomon understood hRABBI as “my master;” however, I can’t help wondering if Jesus was using the title a bit more sarcastically “my great one.” KAQHGHTHS, Solomon claims, was equivalent to moreh (Aramaic malfono) which is generally translated “teacher” or “guide” but is translated twice in the Targum of Isa 30:20 as Shekhina.Hope this helps.Mike Abernathy————– next part ————–An HTML attachment was scrubbed…URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//attachments/20000426/3575582f/attachment.html

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123 thoughts on “Matthew 23:9

  1. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    Here we go bro. Randal Dan Joseph D. Absher
    Text, context, pre-text, subtext, podtext and the Greek text. Complete discussion with all the fixings

    Let’s not forget again: Priesthood of ALL believers
    No transferable concepts in Pentecostalism

  2. You have to have a very expensive education to argue with Jesus. If I remember correctly it didn’t work out to well for the Pharisees back then and it probably won’t work out for them to good now.
    …just saying.

    1. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      Matt 23:9b …. for One is your Heavenly Father I’ve never noticed the textual disparity between the Textus Receptus and the Wescott-Hort/ GNT for this verse.The Textus Receptus:εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖςEIS GAR ESTIN hO PATHR hUMON hO EN TOIS OURANOIS”…for one is our Father who is in heaven.”The Westcott-Hort/ GNT:εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὑμῶν ὁ πατὴρ ὁ οὐράνιος EIS GAR ESTIN hUMON hO PATHR hO OURANIOS”…for one is our heavenly Father.”That’s definitely evidence of an intentional scribal alteration. Nevertheless, they do essentially mean the same thing.

    2. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      Do you have a pointer or insight into what words hRABBI, PATHR,> and KAQHGHTHS meant to a first century Jew? Specifically how those> words are used in this context. I take them to be titles, and if> that is true, what did these people do?>

    3. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      This combination of hyperbole and imperative causes me to lean towards the iimpression that these are titles which are not to be sought by religious leaders whowish to sit and speak with the authority of Moses, when they should be humble beforeGod

    4. Troy Day , a careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, “But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ” (Matt. 23:8–10).

    5. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      Solomon J. Solomon wrote an interesting article on this in Jewish Quarterly Review vol 13 (1900-1901). Briefly, Solomon gave some reasons to support the proposition that first century Jews used PATHR approximately the same way we would use “saint.” Solomon understood hRABBI as “my master;” however, I can’t help wondering if Jesus was using the title a bit more sarcastically “my great one.” KAQHGHTHS, Solomon claims, was equivalent to moreh (Aramaic malfono) which is generally translated “teacher” or “guide” but is translated twice in the Targum of Isa 30:20 as Shekhina.

  3. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    It dont look to be that simple Randal The leader of the prophetic band seems to have been known as the father.RabbiRabbi seems to derive from the Hebrew RaB meaning “chief.” A humorous usage of this (if I’m not misunderstanding it) is in 2 Kings 25.8 which is normally translated “captain of the guard” The Hebrew is RaB_+aB.fXiYM. Jesus was plainly making fun of them “fathers”

    1. Dan Irving Dan Irving says:

      It is common in WOF assemblies, where they emphasize “coverings.” ie. where you can come beneath the spiritual “covering” of this or that (usually heretical) teacher. But this doctrine is rejected, I believe, by most mainstream denominations.

    1. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      What struck me in reading the text was the hyperbolic nature of Jesus’prohibition. Even Jesus uses the term PATHR to refer to “mortals” at times. This combination of hyperbole and imperative causes me to lean towards yourimpression that these are titles which are not to be sought by religious leaders whowish to sit and speak with the authority of Moses, when they should be humble beforeGod

  4. It was hard to pray through after that mess. God had mercy about an hour later. Not one prayer for salvation last night on the streets. I ain’t blaming nobody but me. But I looked everywhere. A few taverns. A new dope house. A homeless campsite. Nothing. My conclusion? People want to be called father that’s their business. Please forgive me but I have other things to do.

  5. He’s loving God trying to help people come to Christ. I think he’s to smart not to get into it. He says wearing a robe helps him. People are more willing to open up. I can’t fight everything.
    I heard a Pentecostal preacher once. You know back in the day. He said men wear a collar to get the respect from men that they don’t get from God. Maybe you can add funny hats and knotted up shawls. If a person has all them degrees and can blow a shofar they got my respect but that don’t make them holy. The blood of Jesus does that.

    1. Randal W Deese Paul may never had heard Jesus say that, because he did not preach from Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. Paul preach from the Old Testament and convince people through the writings of the old Testament.
      Now if he had heard Jesus say that, it is possible he could have sinned, but we don’t know that. He was teaching from the way that Jews and the Old Testament taught about father.
      But Jesus Christ did change that with his statement.

    2. Scotty Searan Apostle Paul taught the very words of Christ…He would not have disobeyed the command of Christ. Therefore, that gives us one strong hermeneutic that says clearly that most people today miss understand the words of Jesus in Matthew 23

    3. Randal W Deese Is there any place in Paul’s ministry, that’s shows Paul quoting something that Jesus said, besides on the road to Damascus at His conversion.
      Paul even call people masters, when Jesus said not to it.
      Jesus was trying to get the Jews and farther along since we are grafted into the Israelites to stop calling Abraham and their ancestors father and masters.
      I take his teachings literally.
      Paul may not have had time to hear all Jesus taught and I don’t believe that he did since the New Testament was being written as he was mustering. That is hermeneutic that is being missed. Jesus was giving his final sermons and clamping down hard on the Jewish traditions that was wrong and sinful.
      Jesus Christ was doing the role of an evangelist, skin their hide and let the disciples (pastors) heal them up.

    4. Scripture does not contradict scripture, but Paul cannot be held accountable for something he did not know or the Holy Ghost had not shown him.
      But we are not to take away from what the scripture says either and we know definitely what Jesus said.

    1. Troy Day You need to think three D… your view would exclude the doctrine of the Trinity. Paul considered Himself a spiritual father. You cannot get around that…. and since Paul called Abraham a spiritual Father AFTER the words of Christ, we know that your teaching is misguided at best, and a hermeneutical blunder at worst. Calling someone Father is to consider one father… think deeper… depth is important in theology

    2. The entire Hebrew and Ancient world knew what Paul meant by considering himself their spiritual father. Embracing him as their father was “calling” him father… even if they never ever said “my father.” Obviously you miss the point of “calling” someone anything!

    3. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      So simple to the mind – Not in the Bible therefore not biblical But wait there is more – This is what IS in the Bible – Jesus Himself imperatively commanded : Call no one a farther for one is your Father in Heaven
      Therefore the Biblical teaching is …

      Call no one a farther for one is your Father in Heaven

    4. Either way, you ignore the historical context of the Hebrew and Ancient Christians… and totally try to erase Paul calling someone FATHER… you are arguing in circles… was Paul lying when he called Abraham Father? NO! It is clear as day!

    5. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      What Paul does not do in these passages is begin using “father” as a formal religious title. Notice how Paul introduces himself in his letters. He normally refers to himself as a “servant” (as in Philippians 1:1) or- especially when writing responses to churches in which his authority was being questioned to some degree- he refers to Christ’s calling upon his life, establishing his apostleship. What Paul does not do in his letters is ever refer to himself as “Father Paul.”

  6. Did the Apostles call Jesus father in the Greek? Because I don’t see it in KJV Bible. But you will find beaucoup verses where Jesus calls God his Father and teaches his disciples to pray “our Father” if you want to kiss another man’s ring you got bigger problems than not knowing who your father is.

  7. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    Joseph D. Absher Even if Jesus did He said it was OK to call God that. Marry called him Rabbi after the Resurrection. He said calling Him God – that was OK. The command was was no to call one father as a formal religious title

    Even Paul does not in any passages begin using “father” as a formal religious title. Notice how Paul introduces himself in his letters. He normally refers to himself as a “servant” (as in Philippians 1:1) or- especially when writing responses to churches in which his authority was being questioned to some degree- he refers to Christ’s calling upon his life, establishing his apostleship. What Paul does not do in his letters is ever refer to himself as “Father Paul.”

    1. No. It was a specific title within the Sanhedrin that Jesus was referring to… He was not addressing the general title used as a spiritual honor of father. We know this because Paul would have violated Christ’s command by CALLING Abraham Father. Hermeneutics 101: Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

  8. Years ago I had these whole types of arguments with Christian preachers wanting to be Batman and Superman. They won’t budge an inch. They love the world. They have their ungodly, unholy, unmanly idols. Their statues, little bobbleheads and jerseys and posters and law of attraction dream boards. It’s easier to work men that have never heard the gospel than preachers that want the respect of men and a god in their own image.

  9. Some of them got black velvet robes and gold braid. Must be nice to know Latin. The only Latin I know is Latin Kings. Hey did I tell you one of got saved the other day. And a gangster disciple too! Oh the love of God. How measureless. Sorry if I’m not to nice about some of this stuff. My dad used to say “some people are educated past their intelligence” I never had that problem lol

  10. Dan Irving Dan Irving says:

    It’s vital we stand against such nonsense. We follow a long history of darkness as to the gospel owing much to vain traditions of Popery. It appears many who should know better are finding the rituals and flourishes of dead religion attractive. They need rebuke.

    1. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      Hey Randal W Deese I had every intention to talk to you about the Church Fathers on the eternal sonship of Christ or Athanasian Trinity but I see you did not respond to any of them. Still not sure of your interest in low key threads

    2. Troy Day I’m dealing with low hanging fruit because I don’t have my computer with me with all of my studies I have done on the deeper subjects… But, I do believe in the I embrace the Eternal Sonship of Jesus

    3. Troy Day

      Lol

      sacraments-You don’t believe in sacraments?

      creeds-you don’t believe in doctrinal statements?

      saints and saints stories-you don’t think there should be Christians giving testimonies in books today?

      lectionaries-You don’t follow order of service at church?

      ascetics-you don’t believe people should Have the freedom to dedicate their life to God in extraordinary ways?

      rituals-your church doesn’t have a specific ritual that his bottle almost every Sunday exact same day and time?

      lent-you don’t call your church to special days of fasting and prayer?

      ash-you don’t celebrate Easter Sunday of the church calendar?

      have no place in Pentecostalism-Well let me add a couple more things the Pentecostals do that or more traditional and man-made

      1. Using hymnals
      2. Using projectors
      3. Pews or any seating
      4. Baby dedications
      5. Forbidding wine in communion
      6. Bulletins
      7. Every body laying hands on a sick person instead of what the Bible says, the elders or to lay their hands on the sick person.
      8. Calling any man a pastor
      9. Having a revival meeting

      I think I wrote up 30 different traditions in the average Penecostal church… But I don’t know where my list is

    1. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      I gathered that much from the picture on your website showing Catholic priest ordination in Switzerland. So then, an ex-Lutheran chaplain (saw many of these in my army days Joseph) who is turning back to Catholic rites and somewhere down the line experiences glassolalia – not really Pentecostal more of a modern day Charismatism. So you are not really Eastern Orthodox are you? Randal W Deese

    2. Troy Day Troy Day says:

      Seems like you are not able to respond under the serious theological discussions either but so it says on the picture on your website – title reads “Priesterweihe in Schwyz_2”

    3. Yes I had a Lutheran chaplain. I tried to talk him about the gospel. He said I was dogmatic. I think it must be bad? Kinda like when they call you gringo. You learn to accept it. So I’m the gringo predicador! and the dogmatic private.

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