Mark 13:26

[bible passage=”Mark 13:26″]

Matthew and Luke: META DUNAMEWS KAI DOXES POLLES
Mark: META DUNAMEWS POLLES KAI DOXES
We have three synoptic passages: Mathew 24:30, Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27
using the adjective POLLES. Matthew and Luke use the adjective after DOXES,
while Mark uses it after DUNAMEWS. Harmonizing the text would make it: META
DUNAMEWS POLLES KAI DOXES POLLES.
My question: would the adjective in both texts modify both nouns? Should we
translate both texts with: with great power and great glory?

Abraços,

Pastor
Fridolin Janzen
Rua 60, 292
CAMPO GRANDE, MS
79104-360 Brasil
55-67-3363-1999
55-67-8458-8643

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6 thoughts on “Mark 13:26

  1. Dean Poulos says:

    “META DUNAMEWS KAI DOXES POLLES”

    Abracos,

    To say I am very new is an understatement, however, I think the answer to your question on harmonization Is yes, but I am only making that guess because in the Byzantine MT all a match, but in WH the passage is as you have written.

    Hopefully I can understand why from others here who would know.

    In Christ,

    Dean Poulos

  2. Dean Poulos says:

    Hello Pastor Fridolin,

    I most certainly can. May I beg your patience sir, as I am away from my computer now but later in the evening, I will send the links to the Byzantine Textform.

    Also, please excuse my ignorance in first addressing you as “Abracos,” which (since I can now see the entire email) realized it the word simply meant regards.

    Thank you and God bless.

    In Christ,

    Dean Poulos
    c: 617-510-0443

    Sent from my PDA, please excuse brevity and any typos. Thank You.

  3. "Iver Larsen" says:

    To answer your question: Yes, I think POLLHS modifies both nouns in both texts.

    You can think of the underlying form as META DUNAMEWS POLLHS KAI DOXHS POLLHS.
    However, ellipsis is very common in Greek, so one of these would normally be
    elided in the surface form. Theoretically, you could elide any of the two, but I
    think it is more common in Greek to elide the first one, which gives you the
    Matthew and Luke order.

    There are no textual variants in terms of order (D changed the genitive
    prepositional phrase to a dative phrase in Luke) and the Byzantine text is not
    different.

    As far as translation goes, it depends on the language. In English, the normal
    order in translation for both phrases if the adjective is to modify both nouns
    would be: with/in great power and glory. But you can have the other order
    without much difference in meaning (DUNAMIS is powerful with or without “great”)
    or you could have “great” in both places. However, that would put more emphasis
    on “great” than the Greek implies. In my language, POLLHS would be translated by
    different adjectives, depending on the noun it modifies. For DUNAMIS, we would
    say “big” and for DOXA we would say “much”. I translated all three as “with
    power and much glory,” but could easily have done it differently without any
    significant difference in meaning.

    And it depends on the type of translation. Bible translation is traditionally
    very literal and tends to keep the order of the Greek words – if it can possibly
    make sense in English – without much focus on whether the translation is clear
    or natural. But all of that has to do with translation theory, rather than
    Greek.

    Iver Larsen

    —– Original Message —–
    Sent: 9. januar 2011 14:16

    Matthew and Luke: META DUNAMEWS KAI DOXES POLLES
    Mark: META DUNAMEWS POLLES KAI DOXES
    We have three synoptic passages: Mathew 24:30, Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27
    using the adjective POLLES. Matthew and Luke use the adjective after DOXES,
    while Mark uses it after DUNAMEWS. Harmonizing the text would make it: META
    DUNAMEWS POLLES KAI DOXES POLLES.
    My question: would the adjective in both texts modify both nouns? Should we
    translate both texts with: with great power and great glory?

    Abraços,

    Pastor
    Fridolin Janzen
    Rua 60, 292
    CAMPO GRANDE, MS
    79104-360 Brasil
    55-67-3363-1999
    55-67-8458-8643

  4. Dean Poulos says:

    “META DUNAMEWS KAI DOXES POLLES”

    Abracos,

    To say I am very new is an understatement, however, I think the answer to your question on harmonization Is yes, but I am only making that guess because in the Byzantine MT all a match, but in WH the passage is as you have written.

    Hopefully I can understand why from others here who would know.

    In Christ,

    Dean Poulos

  5. Dean Poulos says:

    Hello Pastor Fridolin,

    I most certainly can. May I beg your patience sir, as I am away from my computer now but later in the evening, I will send the links to the Byzantine Textform.

    Also, please excuse my ignorance in first addressing you as “Abracos,” which (since I can now see the entire email) realized it the word simply meant regards.

    Thank you and God bless.

    In Christ,

    Dean Poulos
    c: 617-510-0443

    Sent from my PDA, please excuse brevity and any typos. Thank You.

  6. "Iver Larsen" says:

    To answer your question: Yes, I think POLLHS modifies both nouns in both texts.

    You can think of the underlying form as META DUNAMEWS POLLHS KAI DOXHS POLLHS.
    However, ellipsis is very common in Greek, so one of these would normally be
    elided in the surface form. Theoretically, you could elide any of the two, but I
    think it is more common in Greek to elide the first one, which gives you the
    Matthew and Luke order.

    There are no textual variants in terms of order (D changed the genitive
    prepositional phrase to a dative phrase in Luke) and the Byzantine text is not
    different.

    As far as translation goes, it depends on the language. In English, the normal
    order in translation for both phrases if the adjective is to modify both nouns
    would be: with/in great power and glory. But you can have the other order
    without much difference in meaning (DUNAMIS is powerful with or without “great”)
    or you could have “great” in both places. However, that would put more emphasis
    on “great” than the Greek implies. In my language, POLLHS would be translated by
    different adjectives, depending on the noun it modifies. For DUNAMIS, we would
    say “big” and for DOXA we would say “much”. I translated all three as “with
    power and much glory,” but could easily have done it differently without any
    significant difference in meaning.

    And it depends on the type of translation. Bible translation is traditionally
    very literal and tends to keep the order of the Greek words – if it can possibly
    make sense in English – without much focus on whether the translation is clear
    or natural. But all of that has to do with translation theory, rather than
    Greek.

    Iver Larsen

    —– Original Message —–
    Sent: 9. januar 2011 14:16

    Matthew and Luke: META DUNAMEWS KAI DOXES POLLES
    Mark: META DUNAMEWS POLLES KAI DOXES
    We have three synoptic passages: Mathew 24:30, Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27
    using the adjective POLLES. Matthew and Luke use the adjective after DOXES,
    while Mark uses it after DUNAMEWS. Harmonizing the text would make it: META
    DUNAMEWS POLLES KAI DOXES POLLES.
    My question: would the adjective in both texts modify both nouns? Should we
    translate both texts with: with great power and great glory?

    Abraços,

    Pastor
    Fridolin Janzen
    Rua 60, 292
    CAMPO GRANDE, MS
    79104-360 Brasil
    55-67-3363-1999
    55-67-8458-8643

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