2 Corinthians 12:7

2 Cor 12 7 Beatings Or Diseases

[] AGGELOS in 2 Cor 12:7 bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca bertdehaan at gosympatico.ca Sun May 23 16:54:43 EDT 2004 [] Matthew’s SU LEGW [] AGGELOS in 2 Cor 12:7 2 Cor.12:7b-8(7B)EDOQH MOI SKOLOY THi SARKI, AGGELOS SATANA, hINA ME KOLAFIZHi, hINA MH hUPERAIRWMAI.(8)hUPER TOUTOU TRIS TON KURION PAREKALESA, hINA APOSTHi AP EMOU.In every English translation that…

Acts 2:17

Acts 2 17 Dream  Deponens Or Passive

[] Acts 2:17 dream: deponens or passive? Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu Tue Apr 27 17:11:28 EDT 2004   [] Very interesting GNT, _A Readers Greek New Testament_ [] Acts 2:17 dream: deponens or passive? Forwarded for: “Hessel + Coby Visser” <hessel.visser at sil.org>To: “Carl W. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Acts 2:17 dream: deponens…

Ephesians 2:3

Fwd  Ephesians 2 1 3

[] Fwd: Ephesians 2:1-3 John Butzu jbutzu at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 10:48:13 EDT 2009   [] Zhubert’s daily greek read [] Fwd: Ephesians 2:1-3 ———- Forwarded message ———-From: John Butzu <jbutzu at gmail.com>Date: Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:01 AMSubject: Ephesians 2:1-3To: at lists.ibiblio.orgHello. Could someone please explain to me why in Ephesians 2:1…

1 Timothy 2:12

1 Timothy 2:12
Michael Abernathy wrote:
Years ago I read an article (I can’t remember which one) that argued that when the verb for permit is followed by two infinitives the second infinitive often states the purpose of the first infinitive. As I remember the author gave the example of Matthew 8:21 to substantiate his claim.
κύριε, ἐπίτρεψον μοι πρω̂τον ἀπελθει̂ν καὶ θάψαι τὸν πατέρα μου.
Lord, permit me first to go and to bury my father.

We do this in English with a few verbs like ‘go’ and ‘try’.

‘Go and buy some milk’ = ‘go to buy some milk’
‘Try and fix your bicycle’ = ‘try to fix your bicycle’

It seems to me that this happens because the verb demands a complement of this sort. ‘Try’ is inherently purposeful, and purpose is implicit with going, because it is not the going that is the purpose, but whatever one does when one reaches the destination.

My English dictionary, under entry ‘and’, has an addendum which reads:

A small number of verbs, notably ‘try’, ‘come’ and ‘go’ can be followed by ‘and’ with another verb, as in sentences like ‘we’re going to try and explain it to them..’ The structures in these verbs correspond to the use of the infinitive ‘to’, as in ‘we’re going to try to explain it to them..’ .. Since these structures are grammatically odd – for example, the use is normally only idiomatic with the infinitive of the verb and not with other forms (i.e. it is not possible to say ‘I tried and explained it to them’) – they are regarded as wrong by some traditionalists. However, these uses are extremely common in just about every context and can certainly be regarded as standard English.

In English, this isn’t idiomatic with most verbs. And ‘I will teach [you] and fix your bicycle’ would not mean ‘I will teach [you] to fix your bicycle’.

I suspect that the same sort of thing is happening with ἐπίτρεψον μοι πρω̂τον ἀπελθει̂ν καὶ θάψαι τὸν πατέρα μου. καὶ is connective; I think one understands that the terms are sequential – to go and then to bury – and one infers purpose. So I don’t find this example convincing as regards showing anything about ἐπιτρέπω followed by two infinitives. I suspect this is something that happens naturally with ἔρχομαι.

Andrew

Statistics: Posted by Andrew Chapman — March 17th, 2014, 1:54 pm


2 Thessalonians 3:11

New Testament • Re: 2 Thes. 3:11 Is this humour?μηδὲν ἐργαζομένους, ἀλλὰ περ
Robert Crowe wrote:
There is a remarkable contradiction here with the Hindu ideal, where doing nothing is promoted as a way of attaining nirvana. “When we are doing something, we are only ever doing one thing; but when we’re doing nothing, we are doing absolutely nothing.”
cwconrad wrote:
In a slightly different context, I think of Cicero’s claim that he’s always felt he should be engaged in some megotium or else in some “honorable” form of otium (I think that’s the opening of De Oratore) “Leisure” is too easily associated with “laziness” or moral weakness, “idleness” — “the devil’s workshop.” The final stanza of Catullus’ recreation of Sappho’s grand litany of erotic envy sermonizes about the same “devil’s workshop” otium, μηδὲν ἐργάζεσθαι:

Catullus 5 wrote:otium, Catulle, tibi molestumest;
olio exsultas nimiumque gestis.
otium reges pries et beatas
perdidit urbes

That’s impossible to do justice to; it’s something like, “Your problem, Catullus, is having nothing to do; you’re overindulging, bloated on idleness; having nothing to do has been the ruination of monarchs and civilizations.”

If Standard Average European (SAE) was a reference to a Kulturbund rather than a Sprachbund, we would be able see quite clearly at least from the above statements that Ancient India was not part of the region. :lol:

The area covered by the Roman Empire politically, and the area influenced by Roman culture continues to foster the values of Roman society and civilisation, and those value seem familiar to us. In other words, it seems that the authour if 2 Thessalonians was working with a recognised sentiment, rather than introducing a wholly novel concept.

Statistics: Posted by Stephen Hughes — August 16th, 2016, 12:30 am


Acts 2:38

New Testament • Re: Acts 2:38 καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος
Stephen Carlson wrote:
As a matter of logic, “If you do X and Y, you will get Z” means that X and Y are sufficient for Z, not that they are necessary for Z. Occasionally, people imply “only if” with their conditionals (which makes it necessary rather than sufficient), but that is a matter of context and, I’m afraid in this case, theology. As a matter of language, it is not precise enough to settle without looking beyond the construction.

Imperative -> if -> only if, that is a lot of scafolding already.

Can anyone recall an example of this in Greek, which is very clearly not requiring both things (only if). Perhaps something like, “Smoke 5 packs of cigarettes per day, eat as much saturated fat as you can, never do exercise, and you will die before you’re 60”. Or an example that does seem to require them like, “Put the key in the lock, and turn the key, and the door will open”.

Statistics: Posted by Stephen Hughes — January 31st, 2014, 2:54 am


Titus 2:5

[] OIKOUROS in Titus 2:5 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu Mon Jan 28 14:04:40 EST 2008   [] Patristic Lexicons? [] OIKOUROS in Titus 2:5 The following message incoming to appears to have been lost somewhere so I’m forwarding it directly to the list (Moderator, CWC).From: “Normand Joseph” <njoseph at egliseespoir.com>Date: January 28, 2008…

1 Corinthians 12:2

1 Corinthians 12:2

1 Cor 12:2 pwiles pwiles at mail.usyd.edu.au Wed Sep 2 22:32:48 EDT 1998   A SUMMARY OF THE ISSUES CURROUNDING EGW EIMI IN JOHN 8:58 A SUMMARY OF THE ISSUES CURROUNDING EGW EIMI IN JOHN 8:58 HiI have a question re 1 Corinthians 12:2 specifically with reference tothe prepositional phrase proß ta ei¡dwla ta a¡fwna…

Acts 2:42

Acts 2 42  Three Or Four Concepts

Acts 2:42 RHutchin at aol.com RHutchin at aol.com Mon Apr 24 20:26:19 EDT 2000 Previous message: Shepherd 7,1 Next message: Fwd: Eszter andorka /introducing herself/ Acts 2:42 reads–HSAN DE PROSKARTEROUNTES THi DIDAXHi TWN APOSTOLWN KAI THi KOINWNIA, [KAI?] THi KLASEI TOU ARTOU KAI TAIS PROSEUXAIS.1. Could one read this as fellowship with the apostles, breaking…