Heis Mia Hen Used As Indefinite Article

[] <heis> <mia> <hen> robert thompson rthom7 at eq.edu.au
Mon Jul 11 01:04:33 EDT 2005

[] difference between TR and MT in John 17:3 [] <heis> <mia> <hen> GreetingsI have noticed with the words <heis> <mia> and <hen> that they all appear tomean the same thing “oneness” or “one”. I have noticed in cases where pluralnumber of things exist in a verse, that the words <heis> or <mia> may deepento mean “a system of oneness” or “compound unity”, meaning the “one” is partof a “system”.Example 1Joh 1:40 One <heis> of <ek> the two <duo> which <ho> heard <akouo> <para>John <Ioannes> speak, and <kai> followed <akoloutheo> him <autos>, was <en>Andrew <Andreas>, Simon <Simon> Peter’s <Petros> brother <adelphos>. (KJV) 40 hn andreaV o adeljoV simwnoV petrou eiV ek twn duo twn akousantwn paraiwannou kai akolouqhsantwn autw (TR)For example : John 1:40 lists two people, one <heis> was a “the one personwas a system of brothers”….Am I correct in making this hypothesis with all occurences of <heis> or<mia> like this ?Example 2Joh 17:11 ¶ And <kai> now <ouketi> I am <eimi> no more <ouketi> in <en> theworld <kosmos>, but <kai> these <houtos> are <eisi> in <en> the world<kosmos>, and <kai> I <ego> come <erchomai> to <pros> thee <se>. Holy<hagios> Father <pater>, keep <tereo> through <en> thine own <sou> name<onoma> those <autos> whom <hos> thou hast given <didomi> me <moi>, that<hina> they may be <o> one <heis>, as <kathos> we <hemeis> are. (KJV) 11 kai ouk eti eimi en tw kosmw kai outoi en tw kosmw eisin kai egw proV seercomai pater agie thrhson autouV en tw onomati sou ouV dedwkaV moi ina wsinen kaqwV hmeiV (TR)In this example two beings are described (Father and Jesus) , thus the useof <heis> suggests that Jesus is oneness with the Father, in a GOD “likesystem of deities” ? Again is the use of plurality of nouns with <heis> acorrect understanding in verses like these ?Any help appreciated.Rob

[] difference between TR and MT in John 17:3[] <heis> <mia> <hen>

[] <heis> <mia> <hen> Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Jul 11 07:02:20 EDT 2005

[] <heis> <mia> <hen> [] SCRIVENER–Bezae reprint On Jul 11, 2005, at 1:04 AM, robert thompson wrote:> Greetings> > I have noticed with the words <heis> <mia> and <hen> that they all > appear to> mean the same thing “oneness” or “one”. I have noticed in cases > where plural> number of things exist in a verse, that the words <heis> or <mia> > may deepen> to mean “a system of oneness” or “compound unity”, meaning the > “one” is part> of a “system”.> hEIS, MIA, and hEN are respectively the masculine, feminine and neuter nominative forms of the same word which is equivalent to English “one.” You really should consult a good Greek lexicon; for NT Greek the best is BDAG (A Greek – English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature— THIRD EDITION —), to get a clear sense of the different ways in which hEIS, MIA, hEN is commonly used.> > Example 1> > Joh 1:40 One <heis> of <ek> the two <duo> which <ho> heard <akouo> > <para>> John <Ioannes> speak, and <kai> followed <akoloutheo> him <autos>, > was <en>> Andrew <Andreas>, Simon <Simon> Peter’s <Petros> brother > <adelphos>. (KJV)> 40 hn andreaV o adeljoV simwnoV petrou eiV ek twn duo twn > akousantwn para> iwannou kai akolouqhsantwn autw (TR)> > For example : John 1:40 lists two people, one <heis> was a “the one > person> was a system of brothers”….> > Am I correct in making this hypothesis with all occurences of > <heis> or> <mia> like this ?> As I said above, you really should look at a good NT Greek lexicon; it looks to me like you’re attempting to extrapolate the meaning of hEIS from an interlinear translation or from Strong’s numbers. Do you actually know any Greek apart from what you’re surmising from these words? The text in question reads: HN ANDREAS hO ADELFOS SIMWNOS PETROU hEIS EK TWN DUO TWN AKOUSANTWN PARA IWANNOU KAI AKOLOUQHSANTWN AUTWi. Here the snese of hEIS EK TWN DUO is completed by the participial complements TWN AKOUSANTWN PARA IWANNOU KAI AKOLOUQHSANTWN AUTWi and so means “one of the two who had heard from John and had followed him.” There’s nothing in this phrase to indicate that “the two who had heard” were brothers, but only that there were two that had heard and that Andrew was one of them. The information that Andrew was the brother of Simon Peter simply helps to identify Andrew; it doesn’t indicate that Simon Peter was the other who had heard–it may be true that he was the other who heard, but this Greek text does not say that.> Example 2> > Joh 17:11 ¶ And <kai> now <ouketi> I am <eimi> no more <ouketi> in > <en> the> world <kosmos>, but <kai> these <houtos> are <eisi> in <en> the world> <kosmos>, and <kai> I <ego> come <erchomai> to <pros> thee <se>. Holy> <hagios> Father <pater>, keep <tereo> through <en> thine own <sou> > name> <onoma> those <autos> whom <hos> thou hast given <didomi> me <moi>, > that> <hina> they may be <o> one <heis>, as <kathos> we <hemeis> are. (KJV)> 11 kai ouk eti eimi en tw kosmw kai outoi en tw kosmw eisin kai > egw proV se> ercomai pater agie thrhson autouV en tw onomati sou ouV dedwkaV moi > ina wsin> en kaqwV hmeiV (TR)> > In this example two beings are described (Father and Jesus) , thus > the use> of <heis> suggests that Jesus is oneness with the Father, in a GOD > “like> system of deities” ? Again is the use of plurality of nouns with > <heis> a> correct understanding in verses like these ?Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at ioa.com or cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] <heis> <mia> <hen>[] SCRIVENER–Bezae reprint

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? Jonathan Walther krooger at debian.org
Sat Jul 23 22:19:19 EDT 2005

[] Koine Greek fluency [] pronunciation and accents…for a new guy I read an interesting article that said heis/mia could mean “one” butcould also be translated as the indefinite article “a/an”. The articlesaid the same thing is done in Germain with “ein”.The article quoted Gesenius, saying that Hebrew echad was used as anindefinite article sometimes, and that the same was done withheis/mia/hen as a Hebrewism, since the authors of the NT were Hebrew.The article quotes Conybeare and Stock, who show examples from the LXXof heis/mia standing in for an indefinate pronoun.Has anyone done a study on this? Is this a controversial position? Isit widely accepted?Jonathan– It’s not true unless it makes you laugh, but you don’t understand it until it makes you weep.Eukleia: Jonathan WaltherAddress: 5690 Pioneer Ave, Burnaby, BC V5H2X6 (Canada)Contact: 604-430-4973Website: http://reactor-core.org/Puritan: Purity of faith, Purity of doctrinePuritan: Sola Scriptura, Tota Scriptura Love is a sharp sword. Hold it by the right end.

[] Koine Greek fluency[] pronunciation and accents…for a new guy

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? George F Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Sun Jul 24 02:34:49 EDT 2005

[] pronunciation and accents…for a new guy [] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? offlist On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:19:19 -0700 Jonathan Walther <krooger at debian.org>writes:> I read an interesting article that said heis/mia could mean “one” > but> could also be translated as the indefinite article “a/an”. The > article> said the same thing is done in Germain with “ein”.> > The article quoted Gesenius, saying that Hebrew echad was used as > an> indefinite article sometimes, and that the same was done with> heis/mia/hen as a Hebrewism, since the authors of the NT were > Hebrew.> > The article quotes Conybeare and Stock, who show examples from the > LXX> of heis/mia standing in for an indefinate pronoun.> > Has anyone done a study on this? Is this a controversial position? > Is> it widely accepted?> > Jonathan_____________I believe this is generally accepted. It was an accomplishment forlanguages such as Hebrew and Greek to possess a definite article. Latinnever had one. The indefinite article was a subsequent development andwas in its own way very significant as well. The use of “one” as awork-around for a missing indefinite article was a step in thisdirection. I would recommend section #3 under “hEIS, MIA, hEN” in BDAG. As examples we might note its occurence in the Apocalypse5.5 KAI hEIS EK TWN PRESBUTERWN LEGEI MOI 6.1 KAI EIDON hOTE HNOICEN TO ARNION MIAN EK TWN hEPTA SFRAGIDWN — Probably not. See 6.3, 5, 7, 9, etc. KAI HKOUSA hENOS EK TWN TESSARWN ZWiWN LEGONTES7.13 KAI APEKRIQH hEIS EK TWN PRESBUTERWN LEGWN MOI8.13 KAI HKOUSA hENOS AETOU PETOMENOU EN MESOURANHMATI LEGONTOS 13.3 KAI MIAN EK TWN KEFALWN AUTOU 15.7 KAI hEN EK TWN TESSARWN ZWiWN EDWKEN — Questionable cf. “IT is an ancient Mariner, And he stoppeth one of three.”17.1 KAI HLQEN hEIS EK TWN hEPTA AGGELWN — Questionable, see 15.7 Skipping over several which are unlikely18.21 KAI HREN hEIS AGGELOS ISXUROS LIQON19.17 KAI EIDON hENA AGGELON hESTWTA EN TWi hHLIWigeorgegfsomsel___________

[] pronunciation and accents…for a new guy[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? offlist

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Jul 24 08:14:05 EDT 2005

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? offlist [] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? Although Eddie originally addressed this message to me and has apologized profusely (overmuch, methinks) for sending it to the list, I think it may be a useful matter for broader list-discussion.On Jul 24, 2005, at 7:48 AM, Eddie Mishoe wrote:> Dr. Conrad:> > There are places where you would expect an indefinite> article in the NT if writers in general considered it> an option (even though a noun may be considered> indefinite by itself). Hebrews 1:2 comes immediately> to mind where it seems that rather than prophets, God> has now spoke to us EN hUIWi, through a son. Why do we> find so few usages of the indefinite article? It seems> like such an indispensible part of English, which is> probably why I’m so bewildered at the Koine, or any> language for that matter.> > I think what we learn more and more as we grow more intimately familiar with ancient Greek — or with any second language — is the extent to which our native language shapes our thought-patterns and at the same time the extent to which — for that very reason — we imagine that the structures of our native language are themselves somehow “natural” to human thinking. I won’t go further with that reflection, but I think it is true in any case.Does Hebrew have an indefinite pronoun? As George noted, Latin didn’t have one although UNUS seems to have been used as such in the sermo vulgaris and to have supplied the forms of the indefinite pronoun in the Romance languages. Ancient Greek didn’t have one but developed hEIS/MIA/hEN into one. I suspect that when speakers/writers feel the need for a linguistic structure they invent it. As for ancient Greek, I think that many of the functions of the English indefinite article were supplied, when needed, from the indefinite pronoun TIS.As for EN hUIWi in Heb 1:2, I think that an indefinite pronoun would be misleading there because it might suggest a plurality of sons of God, and although the notion of humanity as “sons” or “children” of God is not problematic, the author of Hebrews is very much concerned with the uniqueness of God’s Son. What this suggests is that the English indefinite article may have functions that are quite distinct from what the Greek writer/speaker felt required in the situation.I’m sure there’s more to be said in response to this question, and I do think that the question is a good one and worthy of broader list- discussion.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? offlist[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article?

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? Jim West jwest at highland.net
Sun Jul 24 08:34:37 EDT 2005

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? [] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? Carl W Conrad wrote:>Does Hebrew have an indefinite pronoun? > No.In Hebrew if something isn’t specifically made “definite” then it is naturally “indefinite”. >As for EN hUIWi in Heb 1:2, I think that an indefinite pronoun would >be misleading there because it might suggest a plurality of sons of >God, and although the notion of humanity as “sons” or “children” of >God is not problematic, the author of Hebrews is very much concerned >with the uniqueness of God’s Son. What this suggests is that the >English indefinite article may have functions that are quite distinct >from what the Greek writer/speaker felt required in the situation.> As you have already suggested- language reflects thought and thought patterns and until one is virtually immersed in a language (i.e., one dreams in it), then one is still at a disadvantage in terms of understanding and therefore of translating.Best,Jim– D. Jim WestBiblical Studies Resources – http://web.infoave.net/~jwestBiblical Theology Weblog – http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article?[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article?

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? Barry nebarry at verizon.net
Sun Jul 24 09:25:29 EDT 2005

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article? [] Apology —– Original Message —– From: “Carl W. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>To: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>Cc: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 8:14 AMSubject: Re: [] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article?> Although Eddie originally addressed this message to me and has> apologized profusely (overmuch, methinks) for sending it to the list,> I think it may be a useful matter for broader list-discussion.Yeah, now he’s got to apologize for sending it 4 times. If for each apology, he apologizes 4 times… :)> I think what we learn more and more as we grow more intimately> familiar with ancient Greek — or with any second language — is the> extent to which our native language shapes our thought-patterns and> at the same time the extent to which — for that very reason — we> imagine that the structures of our native language are themselves> somehow “natural” to human thinking. I won’t go further with that> reflection, but I think it is true in any case.A large percentage of learning any second language is learning that it really is a different language. Occasionally, when teaching either Greek or Latin, I would have a student who would say something like “We don’t do it that way in English at all…” To which I would reply “Aha, you’re getting the point, that’s one reason we call it a foreign language!”> As for EN hUIWi in Heb 1:2, I think that an indefinite pronoun would> be misleading there because it might suggest a plurality of sons of> God, and although the notion of humanity as “sons” or “children” of> God is not problematic, the author of Hebrews is very much concerned> with the uniqueness of God’s Son. What this suggests is that the> English indefinite article may have functions that are quite distinct> from what the Greek writer/speaker felt required in the situation.Contextually true. However, I think there is a fairly simple grammatical explanation: it is not at all uncommon to omit the definite article when the noun is used instrumentally with EN. This is fairly common in the Pauline corpus, and though I haven’t studied it much outside of Paul, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s not common in other authors as well. Can’t check the grammars right now: they are all packed in storage awaiting our next move.N.E. Barry HofstetterAdjunct Faculty, The Center for Urban Theological Studies Philadelphia, PAhttp://www.cuts.eduVisiting Faculty, Reformed Theological Seminary Washington, D.C.http://www.rts.edu/campuses/washington_dc/index.cfmAnd me:http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry/Opinions expressed by author of this message do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the institutions listed above…

[] heis/mia/hen used as indefinite article?[] Apology

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