Teaching Methods • Re: Teaching lookalikes for a passage


Teaching Methods • Re: Teaching lookalikes for a passage

Teaching Methods • Re: Teaching lookalikes for a passage

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 05:08 PM PST

Some exercises that might help teaching lookalikes:

Gamify some very simple worksheets that emphasize discrimination of the forms. (How fast can you complete this worksheet, with no mistakes?)

Worksheet A: Which of these words is not like the others?

  1. εἰ εἰ εἶ εἰ
  2. ὁ ὅ ὅ ὅ

Worksheet B: Circle the matching word

  1. εἰ εἰs εἶ εἰ
  2. ὅ ὁ ὁν

See examples at http://www.schoolsparks.com/kindergarten-worksheets/category/similar-words

These can be done with varying colors, fonts, font styles, or font size, to help students get used to different writing styles. (Remember how many complaints there were when Zondervan’s Greek Reader came out and had an italic font? “We can’t read this!” said masses of Greek students who learned on UBS4.)

Once students have a small core vocabulary, they can actively practice the lookalikes by fill-in-the blank sentences.

Worksheet C: Fill in the blank with the correct word.

  1. Ὁ προφήτης ____ σύ; (εἶ or εἰ)
  2. ____ σὺ οὐκ ____ ὁ Χριστὸς, (εἶ or εἰ)

Basically, I like to think about reading/vocabulary/phonics worksheets from K-3 grades as a good model for beginning foreign language learners. Some will dismiss them as “too easy” or “too kiddie”, but they’re good for learning.

Statistics: Posted by Emma Ehrhardt — December 18th, 2015, 9:08 pm


Beginners Forum • Re: Guinea pigs

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 05:04 PM PST

I’d be interested in trying this.
And if you’d like simple illustrations – like I did for Susan Jeffers’ ὁ ἀδελφος και ἡ ἀδελφη
(black and white, simple figures)
Shirley Rollinson

Statistics: Posted by Shirley Rollinson — December 18th, 2015, 9:04 pm


Beginners Forum • Re: Guinea pigs

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 02:12 PM PST

OK, I’m learning how to do a screencast, and asked a few people for feedback on my first attempt. I will work on a first installment for some time next week or so.

Jonathan

Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — December 18th, 2015, 6:12 pm


Other Greek Texts • Re: Plato’s Epistles Translation Check

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 01:45 PM PST

cwconrad wrote:
I’d like to see more context here. I don’t see that this necessarily involves a loan, but χρώμενον ἂν τοῖς χρήμασιν does involve the potential control of funds or resources by the person in question. This is a neat example of the usage of participle with ἄν that SH recently called attention to.

Thank you for taking the time to look at it. I think my trouble is/was both lexical and syntactical, but I think I see what I messed up now. Though, my last translation probably replaced that error with several others. :lol:

Statistics: Posted by Wes Wood — December 18th, 2015, 5:45 pm


Other Greek Texts • Re: Plato’s Epistles Translation Check

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 01:35 PM PST

It took me a bit to track down the right passage. That particular snippet was all that I had in front of me. I had been doing a search looking at forms of πιστεύω and that popped up. Here is some context (which I think definitively proves I was wrong) and, for kicks and giggles, my stab at translating the part I didn’t do yesterday.

τῇ μετὰ ταῦτα ἐλθὼν ἡμέρᾳ λέγει πρός με πιθανὸν λόγον: ‘ἐμοὶ καὶ σοὶ δίων,’ ἔφη, ‘καὶ τὰ Δίωνος ἐκποδὼν ἀπαλλαχθήτω τοῦ περὶ αὐτὰ πολλάκις διαφέρεσθαι: ποιήσω γὰρ διὰ σέ, ἔφη, Δίωνι τάδε. ἀξιῶ ἐκεῖνον ἀπολαβόντα τὰ ἑαυτοῦ οἰκεῖν μὲν ἐν Πελοποννήσῳ, μὴ ὡς φυγάδα δέ, ἀλλ᾽ ὡς αὐτῷ καὶ δεῦρο ἐξὸν ἀποδημεῖν, ὅταν ἐκείνῳ τε καὶ ἐμοὶ καὶ ὑμῖν τοῖς φίλοις κοινῇ συνδοκῇ: ταῦτα δ᾽ εἶναι μὴ ἐπιβουλεύοντος ἐμοί, τούτων δὲ ἐγγυητὰς γίγνεσθαι σέ τε καὶ τοὺς σοὺς οἰκείους καὶ τοὺς ἐνθάδε Δίωνος, ὑμῖν δὲ τὸ βέβαιον ἐκεῖνος παρεχέτω. τὰ χρήματα δὲ ἃ ἂν λάβῃ, κατὰ Πελοπόννησον μὲν καὶ Ἀθήνας κείσθω παρ᾽ οἷστισιν ἂν ὑμῖν δοκῇ, καρπούσθω δὲ δίων, μὴ κύριος δὲ ἄνευ ὑμῶν γιγνέσθω ἀνελέσθαι. ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐκείνῳ μὲν οὐ σφόδρα πιστεύω τούτοις χρώμενον ἂν τοῖς χρήμασιν δίκαιον γίγνεσθαι περὶ ἐμέ—οὐ γὰρ ὀλίγα ἔσται—σοὶ δὲ καὶ τοῖς σοῖς μᾶλλον πεπίστευκα.

On the day after these things he came and made me a persuasive proposition: He was saying, ‘Let us-you and I-remove the frequent differences about Dion and his affairs from our way. For, I will do this on your account for Dion,’ he said. ‘I expect him to take his things and live in Peloponnese, not as a fugitive but thus: he is allowed to go abroad and return, whenever he and me and the friends with you agree with each other. But these things are to be only if he refrains from plotting against me, but you and your household and the ones near Dion become the surety of these things and let him supply you with his security. And the goods, whatever he takes, let them be stored up in Peloponnese and Athens with whomever you wish, and let Dion enjoy the interest. But do not allow him to gain control of it without you.’

Statistics: Posted by Wes Wood — December 18th, 2015, 5:35 pm


Other Greek Texts • Re: Plato’s Epistles Translation Check

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 11:06 AM PST

Wes Wood wrote:
ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐκείνῳ μὲν οὐ σφόδρα πιστεύω τούτοις χρώμενον ἂν τοῖς χρήμασιν δίκαιον γίγνεσθαι περὶ ἐμέ—οὐ γὰρ ὀλίγα ἔσται—σοὶ δὲ καὶ τοῖς σοῖς μᾶλλον πεπίστευκα.

“For I don’t have much faith in that man, if he were loaned this money, to do right by me–for the amount of money won’t be small–but I have more faith in you and the ones who are with you.

I don’t trust myself with the underlined portion. Does this translation get at the sense of it?

I’d like to see more context here. I don’t see that this necessarily involves a loan, but χρώμενον ἂν τοῖς χρήμασιν does involve the potential control of funds or resources by the person in question. This is a neat example of the usage of participle with ἄν that SH recently called attention to.

Statistics: Posted by cwconrad — December 18th, 2015, 3:06 pm


Pronunciation • Re: Please offer your criticism of my reading.

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 09:45 AM PST

Stephen Hughes wrote:
I would greatly appreciate it if anyone could take a moment to point out my gross and minor errors, both systematic and random of pronunciation – pronunciation, timing, phrasal breaks, intonation or word / phrase stress patterns.

I find the reading clear and easy to follow. Pronunciation seemed true to reconstructed to me. It did seem to me that you said ‘simea’ instead of ‘saymea’ in verse 43, and the first word doesn’t sound right – which sort of throws you off for a few words. The speed, if anything, seems a bit slow to me – but that is always balanced against the pauses.

If I were listening to longer passages repeatedly I would find that your pauses do not allow me time to ‘rest’. Perhaps more important, I find that your voice lacks a “smile”. Perhaps this is because you are so focused on the task and this particular text. The voice is stern and shoolmarmish to me rather than friendly and open. It does not welcome me into the narrative. This, of course, is not about the individual voice, but about tone and inflection and modulation – the ‘attitude of voice’.

Statistics: Posted by Thomas Dolhanty — December 18th, 2015, 1:45 pm


Septuagint and Pseudepigrapha • Re: 2Chr 6:19,Ps.101:18 ἐπιβλέπειν ἐπὶ τὴν προσευχὴν …

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 05:09 AM PST

Stephen Hughes wrote:
Ken, are you choosing an example with ἐπιβλέπειν collocated with a place significantly?

No.

Statistics: Posted by Ken M. Penner — December 18th, 2015, 9:09 am


Other Greek Texts • Plato’s Epistles Translation Check

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 12:45 AM PST

ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐκείνῳ μὲν οὐ σφόδρα πιστεύω τούτοις χρώμενον ἂν τοῖς χρήμασιν δίκαιον γίγνεσθαι περὶ ἐμέ—οὐ γὰρ ὀλίγα ἔσται—σοὶ δὲ καὶ τοῖς σοῖς μᾶλλον πεπίστευκα.

“For I don’t have much faith in that man, if he were loaned this money, to do right by me–for the amount of money won’t be small–but I have more faith in you and the ones who are with you.

I don’t trust myself with the underlined portion. Does this translation get at the sense of it?

Statistics: Posted by Wes Wood — December 18th, 2015, 4:45 am


Beginners Forum • Re: Guinea pigs

Posted: 18 Dec 2015 12:36 AM PST

I am willing to participate in this if, or as, my schedule permits.

Statistics: Posted by Wes Wood — December 18th, 2015, 4:36 am


Pronunciation • Re: Please offer your criticism of my reading.

Posted: 17 Dec 2015 11:45 PM PST

Stephen Hughes wrote:
There is, as you say, a great wealth of things on offer in the more-or-less standard Modern Greek pronunciation, but it is not the be all and end all of Greek pronunciations. There is really a range of pronunciation and intonation across the speakers of Modern Greek, besides the standard or prestige pronunciations. Some varieties take quite some getting used to. There are also a variety of speech habits between speakers. There speakers who speak in discrete units, speakers who are quick and run everything together, those who are slow and run everything together, and those who pause and think or even who annoyingly repeat themselves. In certain situations those habits are considered more highly than in others. The same seems to be true in Chinese. Those are individual styles and differences that naturally exist in language.

I think I am more utilitarian than purist; more settler than pioneer. I find real benefit in listening to a skilled narrator reading the Greek, first following along in the text and then simply listening. Our discussion back when, with Randall Buth, and then my reading of the couple of references he suggested was really quite helpful for me to understand how important the speed of the narration is. This has lead me to look for faster narrators than the ones we were listening to at the time, and Fr. Rafael I find to be (forgive me) awesome for where I am at right now. The narration is so clear and natural, and yet fast enough that I only have time to react to the language – no time for analysis. The pauses I find very nice; without them I couldn’t stay with him for long passages. Students that I’ve taught are beginning to use Rafael’s narration with real benefit also.

Like Paul, now however, I struggle with the iotacism – especially for me the οι / υ.

As I said above, I agree with this. Who wouldn’t? However, I note that that the dropping of rough breathings also results in obliterating many distinctions – true in both modern and reconstructed. At some point I will likely make the adjustment – mainly for the oi/u as you point out, and also for the eta. Certainly, I have no difficulty following and understanding the reconstructed pronunciation as it is quite close to modern, and it would be my preference all other things being equal. For now, though, ὁ παλαιὸς χρηστός ἐστιν. We little folk of the Shire don’t change too fast!

Statistics: Posted by Thomas Dolhanty — December 18th, 2015, 3:45 am