[] Colossians 1:15 dhoxworth at charter.net dhoxworth at charter.net
Wed Sep 29 11:19:48 EDT 2004
[] Colossians 1:15 [] Rife: A Beginning Greek Book
>
<Gary>>
Do you think paseis is best understood here as a genitive of comparison?<doug>in addition, you will find considerable discussion in the archives from Nov 6 to Nov 10, 1998 on Col 1:15 and PRWTOTOKOS.Doug HoxworthLuther Rice Seminary
[] Colossians 1:15[] Rife: A Beginning Greek Book
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 kramer kramer brews4jesus at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 4 16:08:12 EDT 2007
[] oti esti qeos [] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
ers, I have two questions about this passage. First, the usage of PAS. v.15 PAS KTISIS “every creature” v.16 PAS “all things” v.17 PAS “all things” v.18 PAS “all things” v.20 PAS “all things” (KJV) Does PAS refer to the same group of individuals in each of these verses? Secondly, APOKATALLASSO is in the aorist tense. Does this necessary mean that Christ has already reconciled PAS? -Kramer ———————————Don’t let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
[] oti esti qeos[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Fri Oct 5 09:01:57 EDT 2007
[] Brekekekex Hapax Hapax [] Romans 7.19, 20
I would say that PASHS KTISEWS is the same as TA PANTA. Some would disagree but I think that is what the context is arguing.And yes, all things have been reconciled through Christ. Everything governed by that hOTI clause has already happened.–Kelton Graham KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net————– Original message ————– From: kramer kramer <brews4jesus at yahoo.com> >
ers, >
>
I have two questions about this passage. >
>
First, the usage of PAS. >
>
v.15 PAS KTISIS “every creature” >
v.16 PAS “all things” >
v.17 PAS “all things” >
v.18 PAS “all things” >
v.20 PAS “all things” (KJV) >
>
Does PAS refer to the same group of individuals in each of these verses? >
>
Secondly, APOKATALLASSO is in the aorist tense. Does this necessary mean that >
Christ has already reconciled PAS? >
>
-Kramer >
>
>
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[] Brekekekex Hapax Hapax[] Romans 7.19, 20
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 kramer kramer brews4jesus at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 11 10:02:45 EDT 2007
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 [] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
ers, Does this past tense of Colossians 1:20 mean that the “all things” that were created through Christ refer only to everything created through Him up until the point of Paul’s writing, or did Paul really mean that all things that have and will be created are created through Christ? Sorry if this is a silly question. ———————————Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 kramer kramer brews4jesus at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 11 10:15:35 EDT 2007
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 [] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Do THRONOS, KURIOTES, ARCHE and EXOUSIA refer to actual persons who hold positions of power, or does it merely refer to the positions of power. I have a friend who claims that the lack of a pronoun in the text indicates that the positions of authority are in view and not the actual persons who occupy these positions. Is this the case? Kramer ———————————Don’t let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Oct 11 10:33:26 EDT 2007
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 [] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA
On Oct 11, 2007, at 10:15 AM, kramer kramer wrote:> > > >
Colossians 1:16 (KJV)For by him were all things created, that are >
in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether >
[they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all >
things were created by him, and for him:> >
Do THRONOS, KURIOTES, ARCHE and EXOUSIA refer to actual persons >
who hold positions of power, or does it merely refer to the >
positions of power. I have a friend who claims that the lack of a >
pronoun in the text indicates that the positions of authority are >
in view and not the actual persons who occupy these positions. Is >
this the case?Col. 1:16 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ ἐκτίσθη τὰ πάνταἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς,τὰ ὁρατὰ καὶ τὰ ἀόρατα,εἴτε θρόνοι εἴτε κυριότητεςεἴτε ἀρχαὶ εἴτε ἐξουσίαι·τὰ πάντα δι᾿ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται·hOTI EN AUTWi EKTISQH TA PANTAEN TOIS OURANOIS KAI EPI THS GHS,TA hORATA KAI TA AORATA,EITE QRONOI EITE KURIOTHTESEITE ARCAI EITE EXOUSIAI:TA PANTA DI’ AUTOU KAI EIS AUTON EKTISTAI.This may well be related to the phrasing of Rom 8:38-39οὔτε θάνατος οὔτε ζωὴ οὔτε ἄγγελοι οὔτε ἀρχαὶ οὔτε ἐνεστῶτα οὔτε μέλλοντα οὔτε δυνάμεις 39 οὔτε ὕψωμα οὔτε βάθος οὔτε τις κτίσις ἑτέραOUTE QANATOS OUTE ZWH OUTE AGGELOI OUTE ARCAI OUTE ENESTWTA OUTE MELLONTA OUTE DUNAMEIS 39 OUTE hUYWMA OUTE BAQOS OUTE TIS KTISIS hETERA …You might check BDAG s.v. KURIOTHS §3, ARCH §§6-7, QRONOS §3.Some think that there are astral powers, whether real or imagined (astrological) involved here. I don’t think there’s any distinct personal references here; I also don’t think there’s likely to be any full consensus on precisely what elements are being referred to here.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Ret)
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20[] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 kramer kramer brews4jesus at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 12 10:59:33 EST 2008
[] Mk 8:12 – … EI DOQH’SETAI… [] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
ers, A friend of mine recently wrote me the following: Col 1:20 KJV And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Notice the phrase to reconcile… The verb is an infinitive which indicates present action going into the future. What is to be reconciled? All things. And if He has to reconcile all things, they are not already reconciled. It is NOT written that all things HAVE BEEN reconciled. Is my friend correct? Thanks in advance, K. Kramer ———————————Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
[] Mk 8:12 – … EI DOQH’SETAI…[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 Harold Holmyard hholmyard3 at earthlink.net
Tue Feb 12 11:31:28 EST 2008
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 [] Jn 2.4 and translation practices
kramer kramer wrote:>
ers,> >
A friend of mine recently wrote me the following:> >
Col 1:20 KJV And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.> >
Notice the phrase “to reconcile…” The verb is an infinitive which indicates present action going into the future. What is to be reconciled? All things. And if He has to reconcile all things, they are not already reconciled. It is NOT written that all things HAVE BEEN reconciled. > >
Is my friend correct?> HH: It is debatable. The verb “reconcile” is an aorist infinitive parallel to “dwell” in verse 19:hOTI EN AUTWi EUDOKHSEV PAN TO PLHRWMA KATOIKNSAI KAI DI’AUTOU APOKATALLAXAI TA PANTA EIS AUTONIt describes a past action. He was pleased for all the fulness to dwell in him and through him to reconcile all things to himself,HH: At this point we don’t know whether reconciliation is an ongoing process or a completed one. The next participle suggests that in this context it may be a complete one:EIRHNOPOIHSAS DIA TOU hAIMATOS TOU STAUROU AUTOUThe participle is aorist and points to a past action. It modifies KATOIKHSAI, I think, suggesting that the way God reconciled all things was to make peace through the blood of Jesus’ cross.However, if one were to separate the action of reconciling from the action of making peace, then the reconciliation could be an ongoing process. Other Pauline texts may suggest that in one sense God is already reconciled, even though there is a human part of the reconciliation process that is necessary as well (2 Cor 5:17-20). At least we can say from Col 1:22 that for Christians this reconciliation process has occurred.Yours,Harold Holmyard
[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20[] Jn 2.4 and translation practices