New Testament • Re: 1 Peter 1:15 κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον

1 Peter 1:15

Stephen Carlson wrote:
June 17th, 2017, 11:22 pm
 
Jonathan Robie wrote:
June 15th, 2017, 3:17 pm
Several translations seem to translate κατά "just as", giving a nice parallelism: *** But can κατά really bend that way? Can you think of similar constructions where it is used like this? Or is there another justification for this kind of translation?
Translations are best thought of more of a guide to how someone interpreted the text rather than a commentary on the grammatical structures per se of the source text.
Of course, but translations seem to follow two very different ways of understanding this particular text. And these two different interpretations seem to be found in commentaries as well. One interpretation takes ἅγιον to be a substantive, the other takes it to be a predicate complement.
Stephen Carlson wrote:
June 17th, 2017, 11:22 pm
A more literal 'translation' would be something like "in accordance with the holy one who called you" and even that does certain transformations like participle to relative clause, adding a "one" to substantive the adjective, etc. These transformations only become problematic with they seem to depart from fidelity to the sense of the source.
That's a more literal translation of this interpretation (the one shown in my last post): κατὰ
τὸν +
v.part καλέσαντα o ὑμᾶς
ἅγιον
And that agrees with Meyer, as quoted above. NET and NASB both understand the Greek text this way. Here is NASB:
NASB wrote:but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
I think I've persuaded myself that I like this understanding best. But ESV, HCSB, NIV, NLT, KJV, etc. are based on a different understanding of the Greek text. Here is ESV:
ESV wrote:but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
That seems to follow this understanding of the text: + ἀλλὰ
κατὰ
s τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς pc ἅγιον
s καὶ αὐτοὶ pc ἅγιοι + ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ v γενήθητε Expositor's Greek argues for this interpretation:
Expositor's Greek wrote:—ἅγιον is better taken as predicate than as substantive, since ὁ καλέσας (καλῶν) is well-established as a title of God in His relation to Gentile Christians (cf. 1 Peter 2:9, etc.)
Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — June 18th, 2017, 12:07 pm
 
Jonathan Robie wrote:
June 15th, 2017, 3:17 pm
Several translations seem to translate κατά "just as", giving a nice parallelism: *** But can κατά really bend that way? Can you think of similar constructions where it is used like this? Or is there another justification for this kind of translation?
Translations are best thought of more of a guide to how someone interpreted the text rather than a commentary on the grammatical structures per se of the source text. A more literal 'translation' would be something like "in accordance with the holy one who called you" and even that does certain transformations like participle to relative clause, adding a "one" to substantive the adjective, etc. These transformations only become problematic with they seem to depart from fidelity to the sense of the source. Statistics: Posted by Stephen Carlson — June 17th, 2017, 11:22 pm
Hmmm, so taking τὸν ἅγιον as a substantive, we would have: κατὰ
τὸν +
v.part καλέσαντα o ὑμᾶς
ἅγιον
Which would be equivalent to κατὰ τὸν ἅγιον τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς. That makes sense: + κατὰ
τὸν +
v.part καλέσαντα o ὑμᾶς
ἅγιον
s καὶ αὐτοὶ pc ἅγιοι + ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ v γενήθητε Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — June 17th, 2017, 6:47 am
Meyer's Critical Commentary has this: (This may or may not help; at least I need the practice) Ver. 15-16. ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον] Steiger: "this positive instruction, instead of forming a participial clause of its own, like the preceding (negative), is in animated discourse at once merged into the principal clause;" there is, accordingly, nothing to be supplied; still Oecumenius explains, in sense, correctly: ἀλλὰ νῦν γοῦν, λέγει, τῷ καλέσαντι συσχηματιζόμενοι, ἁγίῳ ὄντι κ.τ.λ. ἅγιον] is here a substantive, to which the participle καλ. is added as nearer definition (cf. 2Pe 2:1), and that by way of strengthening the exhortation ("as ye are bound to do, since He hath called you") .….καὶ αὐτοὶ ἅγιοι ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ γενήθητε] καὶ αὐτοί forms the antithesis to τὸν ἅγιον; Schott incorrectly: "as against what God has, on His part, by His calling, done to you and made you." ....ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ] not: in (your) whole (de Wette), but in (your) every walk. (85. For it must be observed that in the case of a collective expression, πᾶς is accompanied by the article when the totality is conceived of as forming one whole; the article is wanting when it is considered as composed of many; e.g. πᾶς ὁ λαός means: "the whole people," but πᾶς λαός: "all people," when not: "every people," in which case the collective expression is the special idea.) ΓΕΝΉΘΗΤΕ] denotes not the becoming, but the being; Luther correctly: like Him be ye also holy. (86. Wiesinger asks why? The reasons are—(1) because both in the LXX. and Apocrypha of the O. T., as also in the N. T., instead of the imper. of εἶναι, which is but rarely used, there is very generally the imper. aorist of γίγνομαι, in the LXX. translation of , (cf. specially Psa 69:26); (2) because the exhortation "be holy" is more suited to the condition of Christians than "become holy.") Statistics: Posted by mjmselim — June 16th, 2017, 10:20 pm
I'm not sure how best to understand the phrase κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον in this passage. Here's the text:
1 Peter 1:14-16 wrote:14 ὡς τέκνα ὑπακοῆς, μὴ συσχηματιζόμενοι ταῖς πρότερον ἐν τῇ ἀγνοίᾳ ὑμῶν ἐπιθυμίαις, 15 ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον καὶ αὐτοὶ ἅγιοι ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ γενήθητε, 16 διότι γέγραπται Ἅγιοι ἔσεσθε, ὅτι ἐγὼ ἅγιος.
Several translations seem to translate κατά "just as", giving a nice parallelism: ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον καὶ αὐτοὶ ἅγιοι ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ γενήθητε Using the symbols + = adjunct, s = subject, pc = predicative compliment, v = verb, that looks like this: + ἀλλὰ
κατὰ
s τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς pc ἅγιον
s καὶ αὐτοὶ pc ἅγιοι + ἐν πάσῃ ἀναστροφῇ v γενήθητε Just as the one who called you is holy, be you(pl) holy in all of your behavior. But can κατά really bend that way? Can you think of similar constructions where it is used like this? Or is there another justification for this kind of translation? Or should this be interpreted like this, where v.part means participle, o = object, and o2= second object: + κατὰ
s τὸν v.part καλέσαντα o ὑμᾶς o2 ἅγιον
Or is this just adjectival, κατὰ τὸν καλέσαντα ὑμᾶς ἅγιον = "the Holy One who called you"? Statistics: Posted by Jonathan Robie — June 15th, 2017, 3:17 pm