It's been years since I looked at that. I do remember the appendix on Johannine vocabulary, but I also remember a discussion of Johannine use of the perfect; it may have been within the commentary itself with regard to some particular interesting usage of perfect tense. Statistics: Posted by cwconrad — May 9th, 2014, 7:54 amStephen Carlson wrote: OK. Having checked now Brown commentary, such an appendix was not to be. (There was one on Johannine vocabulary, though, and his use of synonyms.).
OK. Having checked now Brown commentary, such an appendix was not to be. (There was one on Johannine vocabulary, though, and his use of synonyms.) Interestingly, in this passage Brown translates the aorist ἐδόξασα with an English perfect and the Greek perfects with English preterites. Entirely defensible and a good feel for the English. This is perhaps a great example where one should not simply calque the tenses when translating from Greek to English. Statistics: Posted by Stephen Carlson — May 9th, 2014, 6:07 am
I wasn't and I'll take a look at that. Thanks. Statistics: Posted by Stephen Carlson — May 9th, 2014, 5:45 am
Stephen, I assume you're aware that Raymond Brown has an appendix -- I think it was in the second volume of his commentary on John's gospel -- on usage of the perfect tense in John's gospel. Statistics: Posted by cwconrad — May 9th, 2014, 5:30 am
I am fascinated by the use of the perfect in John generally and in this passage specifically. The perfects in the passage quoted about in various ways refer to a sound that's come and gone. If there is a continuing state, it exists only in the memory of the observers. The text tells us that some thought it was thunder, and some thought it was an angel speaking. And these inferences are articulated by the evangelist with verbs in the perfect rather than the aorist. I wonder what effect or "feel" is meant to be achieved by this choice of tense form. Statistics: Posted by Stephen Carlson — May 9th, 2014, 5:09 amJohn 12:28b-30 wrote: 28b ἦλθεν οὖν φωνὴ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, Καὶ ἐδόξασα καὶ πάλιν δοξάσω. 29 ὁ οὖν ὄχλος ὁ ἑστὼς καὶ ἀκούσας ἔλεγεν βροντὴν γεγονέναι· ἄλλοι ἔλεγον, Ἄγγελος αὐτῷ λελάληκεν. 30 ἀπεκρίθη καὶ εἶπεν Ἰησοῦς, Οὐ δι’ ἐμὲ ἡ φωνὴ αὕτη γέγονεν ἀλλὰ δι’ ὑμᾶς.