MK 14:41 APECEI c stirling bartholomew cc.constantine at worldnet.att.net
Mon Jun 4 17:01:21 EDT 2001
Which textbook & Greek exercises+consideration of real use Luke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verse In MK 14:41 we find what looks like a one word clause APECEI.R.H. Gundry (Mark, Eerdmans 1993) suggests that APECEI in MK 14:41is to betaken in the same sense as APECEI in MK 7:6 which is a quote from ISA 29:13LXX. Gundry suggests that Mark is depicting the spatial movement of hOPARADIDOUS from a relatively distant location, i.e. APECEI, to a relativelynear location HGGIKEN. He further suggests that APECEI has some explanatoryforce in relation to the ironic KAQEUDTE TO LOIPON . . . , in other words,you can continue nodding out because he has not arrived yet and is still ata distance. I have a few problems with this. One is the proximity of APECEI to HGGIKEN.If Mark is depicting spatial movement, he is putting it into a very smalltextual package. In one breath hO PARADIDOUS is far away and in the nextbreath he is HGGIKEN.There are of course numerous other attempts at explaining APECEI in thiscontext. — Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
Which textbook & Greek exercises+consideration of real useLuke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verse
MK 14:41 APECEI c stirling bartholomew cc.constantine at worldnet.att.net
Mon Jun 4 17:01:21 EDT 2001
Which textbook & Greek exercises+consideration of real use Luke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verse In MK 14:41 we find what looks like a one word clause APECEI.R.H. Gundry (Mark, Eerdmans 1993) suggests that APECEI in MK 14:41is to betaken in the same sense as APECEI in MK 7:6 which is a quote from ISA 29:13LXX. Gundry suggests that Mark is depicting the spatial movement of hOPARADIDOUS from a relatively distant location, i.e. APECEI, to a relativelynear location HGGIKEN. He further suggests that APECEI has some explanatoryforce in relation to the ironic KAQEUDTE TO LOIPON . . . , in other words,you can continue nodding out because he has not arrived yet and is still ata distance. I have a few problems with this. One is the proximity of APECEI to HGGIKEN.If Mark is depicting spatial movement, he is putting it into a very smalltextual package. In one breath hO PARADIDOUS is far away and in the nextbreath he is HGGIKEN.There are of course numerous other attempts at explaining APECEI in thiscontext. — Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062
Which textbook & Greek exercises+consideration of real useLuke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verse
MK 14:41 APECEI Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jun 5 06:33:50 EDT 2001
Luke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verse Luke 23:43 in B At 2:01 PM -0700 6/4/01, c stirling bartholomew wrote:>In MK 14:41 we find what looks like a one word clause APECEI.> >R.H. Gundry (Mark, Eerdmans 1993) suggests that APECEI in MK 14:41is to be>taken in the same sense as APECEI in MK 7:6 which is a quote from ISA 29:13>LXX. Gundry suggests that Mark is depicting the spatial movement of hO>PARADIDOUS from a relatively distant location, i.e. APECEI, to a relatively>near location HGGIKEN. He further suggests that APECEI has some explanatory>force in relation to the ironic KAQEUDTE TO LOIPON . . . , in other words,>you can continue nodding out because he has not arrived yet and is still at>a distance. > >I have a few problems with this. One is the proximity of APECEI to HGGIKEN.>If Mark is depicting spatial movement, he is putting it into a very small>textual package. In one breath hO PARADIDOUS is far away and in the next>breath he is HGGIKEN.> >There are of course numerous other attempts at explaining APECEI in this>context.My own sense is that this is an idiomatic usage of APECEI in the sense,”it’s far enough” = “it’s okay.” In English we may say, “so far, so good.”In German I think it’s something like “es ist so weit” (but I’m not reallyquite sure that’s right.)Louw & Nida59.47 APECW: to mark the point at which the duration of a state or processis enough – ‘to be enough, to be sufficient.’ KAQEUDETE TO LOIPON KAIANAPAUESQE: APECEI ‘are you still sleeping and resting? Enough!’ Mk 14:41.In a number of languages the equivalent of ‘enough!’ would be ‘that is theend’ or ‘you must stop sleeping now.’– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityHome: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
Luke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verseLuke 23:43 in B
MK 14:41 APECEI Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Jun 5 06:33:50 EDT 2001
Luke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verse Luke 23:43 in B At 2:01 PM -0700 6/4/01, c stirling bartholomew wrote:>In MK 14:41 we find what looks like a one word clause APECEI.> >R.H. Gundry (Mark, Eerdmans 1993) suggests that APECEI in MK 14:41is to be>taken in the same sense as APECEI in MK 7:6 which is a quote from ISA 29:13>LXX. Gundry suggests that Mark is depicting the spatial movement of hO>PARADIDOUS from a relatively distant location, i.e. APECEI, to a relatively>near location HGGIKEN. He further suggests that APECEI has some explanatory>force in relation to the ironic KAQEUDTE TO LOIPON . . . , in other words,>you can continue nodding out because he has not arrived yet and is still at>a distance. > >I have a few problems with this. One is the proximity of APECEI to HGGIKEN.>If Mark is depicting spatial movement, he is putting it into a very small>textual package. In one breath hO PARADIDOUS is far away and in the next>breath he is HGGIKEN.> >There are of course numerous other attempts at explaining APECEI in this>context.My own sense is that this is an idiomatic usage of APECEI in the sense,”it’s far enough” = “it’s okay.” In English we may say, “so far, so good.”In German I think it’s something like “es ist so weit” (but I’m not reallyquite sure that’s right.)Louw & Nida59.47 APECW: to mark the point at which the duration of a state or processis enough – ‘to be enough, to be sufficient.’ KAQEUDETE TO LOIPON KAIANAPAUESQE: APECEI ‘are you still sleeping and resting? Enough!’ Mk 14:41.In a number of languages the equivalent of ‘enough!’ would be ‘that is theend’ or ‘you must stop sleeping now.’– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityHome: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
Luke 23:43 – the punctuation of the verseLuke 23:43 in B
[] Mk 14:41 APECEI Wieland Willker willker at chemie.uni-bremen.de
Mon Apr 14 03:40:16 EDT 2003
[] tou in Luke 22:31 [] Mk 14:41 APECEI I came across an interesting article discussing the notorious cruxAPECEI in Mk 14:41:K.W. Mueller, ZNW 77 (1986) 83-100He makes the interesting suggestion that APECEI is not from APECW, butfrom APOCEW (“pour out”), APECEI = 3rd Sing. Imperfect.This then is related to the previous “Father, for you all things arepossible; remove this cup from me;”This cup is the OT cup of wrath (e.g. Jer 25:15) poured out by God atthe judgment day. The hour has come. APECEI = It’s poured out!God did not remove the cup, he poured it out.What do you all think?Best wishes Wieland <><————————————————Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germanymailto:willker at chemie.uni-bremen.dehttp://www.uni-bremen.de/~wieTextcritical commentary:http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
[] tou in Luke 22:31[] Mk 14:41 APECEI
[] Mk 14:41 APECEI D Jongkind dj214 at cam.ac.uk
Mon Apr 14 05:45:53 EDT 2003
[] Mk 14:41 APECEI [] Jerome’s Prologue to the Canonical Epistles The main problem I see is the passive meaning given to an active form (‘it’spoured out’), unless we want to read it as ‘[God] has poured out’. Theimplied subject comes a little out of the blue then, I think.And instead of APOCEW I would at least expect the more common EKCEW (but whoam I to tell Mark what he should have written?).I think it comes down to replacing the lexical problem APECW with the nextproblem.Regards,Dirk Jongkind> I came across an interesting article discussing the notorious crux> APECEI in Mk 14:41:> K.W. Mueller, ZNW 77 (1986) 83-100> > He makes the interesting suggestion that APECEI is not from APECW, but> from APOCEW (“pour out”), APECEI = 3rd Sing. Imperfect.> This then is related to the previous “Father, for you all things are> possible; remove this cup from me;”> This cup is the OT cup of wrath (e.g. Jer 25:15) poured out by God at> the judgment day. The hour has come. APECEI = It’s poured out!> God did not remove the cup, he poured it out.> > What do you all think?> > Best wishes> Wieland> <><
[] Mk 14:41 APECEI[] Jerome’s Prologue to the Canonical Epistles
MK 14:41 APECEI Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Tue Jun 5 15:15:53 EDT 2001
Thayers Lexicon ENOUGH ALREADY! Re: Luke 23:43 > > My own sense is that this is an idiomatic usage of APECEI in the sense,> “it’s far enough” = “it’s okay.” In English we may say, “so far, so good.”> In German I think it’s something like “es ist so weit” (but I’m not really> quite sure that’s right.)> > Louw & Nida> 59.47 APECW: to mark the point at which the duration of a state or process> is enough – ‘to be enough, to be sufficient.’ KAQEUDETE TO LOIPON KAI> ANAPAUESQE: APECEI ‘are you still sleeping and resting? Enough!’ Mk 14:41.> In a number of languages the equivalent of ‘enough!’ would be ‘that is the> end’ or ‘you must stop sleeping now.’> It is worth noting that BAGD suggests with hesitation the sense “the account is closed”. Iam doubtful that the word should be linked primarily to the sleeping as the finalsuggestion in L & N indicates. It seems more likely to me that the hour of decision inGethsemane is now over for Jesus and a new act in the drama opens with the betrayeralready on his way. Based on the following words (the hour has come) my feeling is morelike “jacta est alea” – It is settled, there is no turning back. Let us go forward andface it.My thoughts,Iver Larsen
Thayers LexiconENOUGH ALREADY! Re: Luke 23:43
MK 14:41 APECEI Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Tue Jun 5 15:15:53 EDT 2001
Thayers Lexicon ENOUGH ALREADY! Re: Luke 23:43 > > My own sense is that this is an idiomatic usage of APECEI in the sense,> “it’s far enough” = “it’s okay.” In English we may say, “so far, so good.”> In German I think it’s something like “es ist so weit” (but I’m not really> quite sure that’s right.)> > Louw & Nida> 59.47 APECW: to mark the point at which the duration of a state or process> is enough – ‘to be enough, to be sufficient.’ KAQEUDETE TO LOIPON KAI> ANAPAUESQE: APECEI ‘are you still sleeping and resting? Enough!’ Mk 14:41.> In a number of languages the equivalent of ‘enough!’ would be ‘that is the> end’ or ‘you must stop sleeping now.’> It is worth noting that BAGD suggests with hesitation the sense “the account is closed”. Iam doubtful that the word should be linked primarily to the sleeping as the finalsuggestion in L & N indicates. It seems more likely to me that the hour of decision inGethsemane is now over for Jesus and a new act in the drama opens with the betrayeralready on his way. Based on the following words (the hour has come) my feeling is morelike “jacta est alea” – It is settled, there is no turning back. Let us go forward andface it.My thoughts,Iver Larsen
Thayers LexiconENOUGH ALREADY! Re: Luke 23:43