Matthew 28:19

[] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA Don Dwight dddwight1234 at sbcglobal.net
Wed Oct 3 18:59:38 EDT 2007

[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20 [] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA Does Mt 28:19 contain the double accusative construction?Mt 28:16 οἱ δὲ ἕνδεκα μαθηταὶ ἐπορεύθησαν εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν εἰς τὸ ὄρος οὗ ἐτάξατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς 17 καὶ ἰδόντες αὐτὸν προσεκύνησαν οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν 18 καὶ προσελθὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς λέγων ἐδόθη μοι πᾶσα ἐξουσία ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς 19 πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος 20 διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος Mt 28:16 hOI DE hENDEKA MAQHTAI EPOREUQHSAN EIS THN GALILAIAN EIS TO OROS hOU ETAXATO AUTOIS hO IHSOUS 17 KAI IDONTES AUTON PROSEKUNHSAN hOI DE EDISTASAN 18 KAI PROSELQWN hO IHSOUS ELALHSEN AUTOIS LEGWN EDOQH MOI PASA EXOUSIA EN OURANWi KAI EPI THS GHS 19 POREUQENTES OUN MAQHTEUSATE PANTA TA EQNH BAPTIZONTES AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU PATROS KAI TOU hUIOU KAI TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS 20 DIDASKONTES AUTOUS THREIN PANTA hOSA ENETEILAMHN hUMIN KAI IDOU EGW MEQ hUMWN EIMI PASAS TAS hHMERAS hEWS THS SUNTELEIAS TOU AIWNOS The double accusative in v. 16 … EIS THN GALILAIAN EIS TO OROS OU …signals the double accusative in v. 19 … [EIS TO] AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …and the phrasing of v. 19 lends itself to the double accusative construction:POREUQENTES OUNMAQHTEUSATEPANTA TA EQNH BAPTIZONTESAUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …making the sense of this part of v. 19 to be … MAQHTEUSATEBAPTIZONTES PANTA TA EQNH[EIS TO] AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …since MAQHTEUSATE (“be who you are do what you do” aorist) can be intransitive and BAPTIZONTES implies TINA EIS (TO) ONOMA TINOSand AUTOUS are already EIS TO ONOMA TOU …as in v. 20 … (EGW (MEQ hUMWN) EIMI) …and EIS in the first EIS TO is revealed by EIS in AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …and TO in the first EIS TO mingles (crasis) with AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …Donald D. DwightMonterey, California

[] PAS in Colossians 1:15-20 and tense in v.20[] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA

[] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Oct 5 09:26:13 EDT 2007

[] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA [] Cross-References & Quotations in NA27 and UBS4 On Oct 3, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Don Dwight wrote:> Does Mt 28:19 contain the double accusative construction?> > Mt 28:16 οἱ δὲ ἕνδεκα μαθηταὶ > ἐπορεύθησαν εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν > εἰς τὸ ὄρος> οὗ ἐτάξατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς 17 > καὶ ἰδόντες αὐτὸν προσεκύνησαν > οἱ δὲ> ἐδίστασαν 18 καὶ προσελθὼν ὁ > Ἰησοῦς ἐλάλησεν αὐτοῖς λέγων > ἐδόθη μοι> πᾶσα ἐξουσία ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ > τῆς γῆς 19 πορευθέντες οὖν > μαθητεύσατε> πάντα τὰ ἔθνη βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς > εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ > υἱοῦ> καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος 20 > διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα > ὅσα> ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ > μεθ’ ὑμῶν εἰμι πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας > ἕως τῆς> συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος> > Mt 28:16 hOI DE hENDEKA MAQHTAI EPOREUQHSAN EIS THN GALILAIAN EIS TO> OROS hOU ETAXATO AUTOIS hO IHSOUS 17 KAI IDONTES AUTON > PROSEKUNHSAN hOI> DE EDISTASAN 18 KAI PROSELQWN hO IHSOUS ELALHSEN AUTOIS LEGWN > EDOQH MOI> PASA EXOUSIA EN OURANWi KAI EPI THS GHS 19 POREUQENTES OUN > MAQHTEUSATE> PANTA TA EQNH BAPTIZONTES AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU PATROS KAI TOU hUIOU> KAI TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS 20 DIDASKONTES AUTOUS THREIN PANTA hOSA> ENETEILAMHN hUMIN KAI IDOU EGW MEQ hUMWN EIMI PASAS TAS hHMERAS > hEWS THS> SUNTELEIAS TOU AIWNOS> > The double accusative in v. 16 … EIS THN GALILAIAN EIS TO OROS > OU …> signals the double accusative in v. 19 … [EIS TO] AUTOUS EIS TO > ONOMA> TOU …> and the phrasing of v. 19 lends itself to the double accusative> construction:> POREUQENTES OUN> MAQHTEUSATE> PANTA TA EQNH BAPTIZONTES> AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …> making the sense of this part of v. 19 to be> … MAQHTEUSATE> BAPTIZONTES PANTA TA EQNH> [EIS TO] AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU …> since MAQHTEUSATE (“be who you are do what you do” aorist) can be> intransitive and BAPTIZONTES implies TINA EIS (TO) ONOMA TINOS> and AUTOUS are already EIS TO ONOMA TOU …> as in v. 20 … (EGW (MEQ hUMWN) EIMI) …> and EIS in the first EIS TO is revealed by EIS in AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA> TOU …> and TO in the first EIS TO mingles (crasis) with AUTOUS EIS TO > ONOMA TOU …I think there’s a misuse of terminology here. “Double accusative” as commonly used refers to one or another of two constructions in which accusative case forms function as complements of the verb:(1) a verb takes one direct object of the person and a second object of the thing:e.g. John 14:26 ἐκεῖνος ὑμᾶς διδάξει πάντα EKEINOS hUMAS DIDAXEI PANTA “He will teach you everything.” Here hUMAS indicates the persons who will be taught, while PANTA indicates the content of the teaching.(2) a verb takes a direct object and a predicate accusative of a substantive or adjective that characterizes the direct object:e.g. Matt 22:43 Δαυὶδ ἐν πνεύματι καλεῖ αὐτὸν κύριον DAUID EN PNEUMATI KALEI AUTON KURION “David by inspiration calls him “Lord.” Here AUTON is the direct object and KURION is the predicate word characterizing AUTON.The constructions you refer to above confound accusative objects of verbs with substantives that are objects of prepositions within prepositional phrases. EIS THN GALILAIAN and EIS TO OROS are both prepositional phrases with substantives functioning as objects of the preposition. Those accusative-case forms cannot be construed apart from the prepositions that govern them.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Ret)

[] Mt 28:19 AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA[] Cross-References & Quotations in NA27 and UBS4

Mt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUS Benjamin Raymond braymond at ipa.net
Wed Jul 1 23:52:50 EDT 1998

1 Tim 2:12 tameion: scatological? Hi all,I’ve previously read PANTA TA EQNH in Mt 28.19 as the antecedent of AUTOUS. For some reason I overlooked the gender difference.Is there an explicit antecedent for AUTOUS?Thanks,Ben—————————————————————————Benjamin Raymondsenior, Harding University School of Biblical Studiesbraymond at ipa.netHU Box 11871, 900 E CenterSearcy, AR 72149-0001501-279-4820

1 Tim 2:12tameion: scatological?

Mt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUS Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Jul 2 07:38:22 EDT 1998

Fw: Concepts and Words Mt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUS At 11:52 PM -0400 7/01/98, Benjamin Raymond wrote:>Hi all,> >I’ve previously read PANTA TA EQNH in Mt 28.19 as the antecedent of AUTOUS.> For some reason I overlooked the gender difference.> >Is there an explicit antecedent for AUTOUS?I think you were right the first time, Ben. EQNH happens to be neuterplural, but it refers to Gentile persons in this instance, I think we oughtto say, and therefore the generic masculine plural pronoun is used for itin this instance; certainly there is no other masculine plural antecedent.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

Fw: Concepts and WordsMt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUS

Mt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUS Benjamin Raymond braymond at ipa.net
Thu Jul 2 17:31:53 EDT 1998

Mt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUS Re. PISTEI VOOUMEN KATHRTISQAI TOUS AIWNAS… Heb. 11:3 At 07:38 AM 7/2/98 -0400, you wrote:>At 11:52 PM -0400 7/01/98, Benjamin Raymond wrote:>>Hi all,>> >>I’ve previously read PANTA TA EQNH in Mt 28.19 as the antecedent of AUTOUS.>> For some reason I overlooked the gender difference.>> >>Is there an explicit antecedent for AUTOUS?> > >I think you were right the first time, Ben. EQNH happens to be neuter>plural, but it refers to Gentile persons in this instance, I think we ought>to say, and therefore the generic masculine plural pronoun is used for it>in this instance; certainly there is no other masculine plural antecedent.Fair enough. I’d seen where neuter plural nouns sometimes take thesingular verb form (i.e., 2 Jno 13), but the disagreement in gender here isnew to me.Are there some syntactical parallels which might help me better grasp thepractice of using masculine pronouns in the generic sense like this?—————————————————————————Benjamin Raymondsenior, Harding University School of Biblical Studiesbraymond at ipa.netHU Box 11871, 900 E CenterSearcy, AR 72149-0001501-279-4820

Mt 28.19 – antecedent of AUTOUSRe. PISTEI VOOUMEN KATHRTISQAI TOUS AIWNAS… Heb. 11:3

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 Thomas Hagen thomas.hagen at libero.it
Thu Dec 3 16:38:33 EST 2009

[] Greek text with lexicon [] Matthew 28: 19,20 Dear friends – I have two questions concerning Matthew 28:19, 20. 19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. 19πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνευματος, 20διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν· καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μετ’ ὑμῶν εἰμὶ πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος. 19POREUQENTES OUN MAQHTEUSATE PANTA TA EQNH, BAPTIZONTES AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU PATROS KAI TOU hUIOU KAI TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS, 20 DIDASKONTES AUTOUS THREIN PANTA hOSA ENETEILAMHN UMIN· KAI IDOU EGW MET’ UMWN EIMI PASAS TAS hHMERAS hEWS THS SUNTELEIAS TOU AIWNOS. The first question concerns the participles βαπτίζοντες / BAPTIZONTES and διδάσκοντες / DIDASKONTES. I would like to ask if these participles are causal or descriptive; that is, do they explain how disciples are to be made (by baptizing… and by teaching…) or do they describe what accompanies the making of disciples (baptism and teaching). There may not be a great difference between the two, but if Greek makes such a difference I would like to know. The second question concerns the meaning of τηρεῖν / THREIN in verse 20. I would like to know if in this context it means keep in the sense of “putting into practice” or in the sense of “preserving, conserving, guarding carefully so as not to lose”. I hope I have succeeded in clearly explaining my questions. Thank you for any enlightenment you can give me. Thomas HagenLivorno, Italy

[] Greek text with lexicon[] Matthew 28: 19,20

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 3 17:35:13 EST 2009

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 [] Matthew 28: 19,20 Thomas egraspe: <The first question concerns the participles βαπτίζοντες / BAPTIZONTES and διδάσκοντες / DIDASKONTES. I would like to ask if these participles are causal or descriptive; that is, do they explain how disciples are to be made (by baptizing… and by teaching…) or do they describe what accompanies the making of disciples (baptism and teaching). There may not be a great difference between the two, but if Greek makes such a difference I would like to know.> Hi, Thomas, I don’t think there is anything in the Greek which wouldsettle this either way.  Nothing prevents one from takingthe participle as causal.  Nothing forces one to.  Participleplus finite verb, or finite verb plus participle, or participleplus finite verb plus another participle.  This is such a GREEKway of writing, from Homer to the NT, and it alwaysresults in ambiguity.  Something else, the context,always decides questions like this.  This is really themeta Greek Urban Legend that Jeff R. has been trying to explain, that knowing the Greek EVER helpsyou settle a question like this.   But that does notmean you should not ask the question. It is a goodone.   Mark LFWSFOROS MARKOS— On Thu, 12/3/09, Thomas Hagen <thomas.hagen at libero.it> wrote:From: Thomas Hagen <thomas.hagen at libero.it>Subject: [] Matthew 28: 19,20To: “” < at lists.ibiblio.org>Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009, 2:38 PMDear friends –I have two questions concerning Matthew 28:19, 20.19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.19πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνευματος, 20διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν· καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μετ’ ὑμῶν εἰμὶ πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος.19POREUQENTES OUN MAQHTEUSATE PANTA TA EQNH, BAPTIZONTES AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU PATROS KAI TOU hUIOU KAI TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS, 20 DIDASKONTES AUTOUS THREIN PANTA hOSA ENETEILAMHN UMIN· KAI IDOU EGW MET’ UMWN EIMI PASAS TAS hHMERAS hEWS THS SUNTELEIAS TOU AIWNOS.The first question concerns the participles βαπτίζοντες / BAPTIZONTES and διδάσκοντες / DIDASKONTES. I would like to ask if these participles are causal or descriptive; that is, do they explain how disciples are to be made (by baptizing… and by teaching…) or do they describe what accompanies the making of disciples (baptism and teaching). There may not be a great difference between the two, but if Greek makes such a difference I would like to know.The second question concerns the meaning of τηρεῖν / THREIN in verse 20. I would like to know if in this context it means keep in the sense of “putting into practice” or in the sense of “preserving, conserving, guarding carefully so as not to lose”. I hope I have succeeded in clearly explaining my questions. Thank you for any enlightenment you can give me.Thomas HagenLivorno, Italy — home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] Matthew 28: 19,20[] Matthew 28: 19,20

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 3 18:40:55 EST 2009

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 [] Matthew 28: 19,20 It is a matter of interpretation, but I would understand the participles here as expressing the manner in which they were to perform the action of the main verbs. georgegfsomsel … search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the truth till death.- Jan Hus_________ ________________________________From: Thomas Hagen <thomas.hagen at libero.it>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:38:33 PMSubject: [] Matthew 28: 19,20Dear friends –I have two questions concerning Matthew 28:19, 20.19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.19πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνευματος, 20διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν· καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μετ’ ὑμῶν εἰμὶ πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος.19POREUQENTES OUN MAQHTEUSATE PANTA TA EQNH, BAPTIZONTES AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU PATROS KAI TOU hUIOU KAI TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS, 20 DIDASKONTES AUTOUS THREIN PANTA hOSA ENETEILAMHN UMIN· KAI IDOU EGW MET’ UMWN EIMI PASAS TAS hHMERAS hEWS THS SUNTELEIAS TOU AIWNOS.The first question concerns the participles βαπτίζοντες / BAPTIZONTES and διδάσκοντες / DIDASKONTES. I would like to ask if these participles are causal or descriptive; that is, do they explain how disciples are to be made (by baptizing… and by teaching…) or do they describe what accompanies the making of disciples (baptism and teaching). There may not be a great difference between the two, but if Greek makes such a difference I would like to know.The second question concerns the meaning of τηρεῖν / THREIN in verse 20. I would like to know if in this context it means keep in the sense of “putting into practice” or in the sense of “preserving, conserving, guarding carefully so as not to lose”. I hope I have succeeded in clearly explaining my questions. Thank you for any enlightenment you can give me.Thomas HagenLivorno, Italy — home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] Matthew 28: 19,20[] Matthew 28: 19,20

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Thu Dec 3 22:46:33 EST 2009

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 [] Matthew 28: 19,20 I’m no 24 carat grammarian, and don’t know much about linguistics, but I would be inclined to see BAPTIZONTES and DIDASKONTES as both modal and adverbial participles describing manner. Can’t they be both in Greek? We distinguish these functions in English … but in Greek, it is a tough call. Of course the first participle POREUQENTES (Mat 28:18) is most likely modal, sharing the mode of the principle verb of its clause. (This is a category used by BDF). Some examples:Gen 12:19Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her for my wife? Now then, here is your wife, take her, and be gone.” ‏לָמָ֤ה אָמַ֙רְתָּ֙ אֲחֹ֣תִי הִ֔וא וָאֶקַּ֥ח אֹתָ֛הּ לִ֖י לְאִשָּׁ֑ה וְעַתָּ֕ה הִנֵּ֥ה אִשְׁתְּךָ֖ קַ֥ח וָלֵֽךְ׃laœma® }aœmartaœ }∞hΩoœt◊ˆî hiw} waœ}eqqahΩ }oœt◊a®h lˆî l§}isûsûa® w§{atta® hinne® }isût§k≈aœ qahΩ waœleœk≈:ἵνα τί εἶπας ὅτι Ἀδελφή μού ἐστιν; καὶ ἔλαβον αὐτὴν ἐμαυτῷ εἰς γυναῖκα. καὶ νῦν ἰδοὺ ἡ γυνή σου ἐναντίον σου· λαβὼν ἀπότρεχε.. hINA TI EIPAS hOTI ADELFH ESTIN? KAI ELABON AUTHN EMAUTWi EIS GUNAIKA. KAI NUN IDOU hH GUNH SOU ENANTION SOU LABWN APOTRECE.Gen 13:17Rise up, walk through the length and the breadth of the land, for I will give it to you. ἀναστὰς διόδευσον τὴν γῆν εἴς τε τὸ μῆκος αὐτῆς καὶ εἰς τὸ πλάτος, ὅτι σοὶ δώσω αὐτήν. Gen 27:9Go to the flock, and get me two choice kidsκαὶ πορευθεὶς εἰς τὰ πρόβατα λαβέ μοι ἐκεῖθεν δύο ἐρίφουςKAI POREUQEIS EIS TA PROBATA LABE MOI EKEQEN DUO ERIFOUS Ex 5:18νῦν οὖν πορευθέντες ἐργάζεσθε· NUN OUN POREUQENTES ERGAZESQEAbout the participles BAPTIZONTES and DIDASKONTES, I imagine that a search for the pattern—imperative verb followed by participles (whose putative agent [subject]) is the same as the imperative verb would be best considered modal as well. Here are some interesting examples: Mk 9:22βοήθησον ἡμῖν σπλαγχνισθεὶς ἐφ᾿ ἡμᾶς.BOHQHSON hHMIN SPLAGCNISQEIS EF’ hHMAS (I think this one is a fairly clear example of a modal type participle).Mk 15:30σῶσον σεαυτὸν καταβὰς ἀπὸ τοῦ σταυροῦSWSON SEAUTON KATABAS APO TOU STAUROU (this one seems modal)Lk 5:24ἔγειρε καὶ ἄρας τὸ κλινίδιόν σου πορεύου εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σουEGEIRE KAI ARAS TO KLINIDION SOU POREUOU EIS TON OIKON SOU (modal)Lk 10:7ἐν αὐτῇ δὲ τῇ οἰκίᾳ μένετε ἐσθίοντες καὶ πίνοντεςEN AUTH DE TH OIKIA MENETE ESQIONTES KAI PINONTES (ambiguous).Has anyone done a more thorough NT/LXX search?This one was interesting to me. An imperatival noun phrase followed by, among other things, “imperatival” or “modal” participles:Rom 12:9-12Ἡ ἀγάπη ἀνυπόκριτος. ἀποστυγοῦντες τὸ πονηρόν, κολλώμενοι τῷ ἀγαθῷ, τῇ φιλαδελφίᾳ εἰς ἀλλήλους φιλόστοργοι, τῇ τιμῇ ἀλλήλους προηγούμενοι, τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, τῷ πνεύματι ζέοντες, τῷ κυρίῳ δουλεύοντες, τῇ ἐλπίδι χαίροντες, τῇ θλίψει ὑπομένοντες, τῇ προσευχῇ προσκαρτεροῦντες, ταῖς χρείαις τῶν ἁγίων κοινωνοῦντες, τὴν φιλοξενίαν διώκοντες.hH AGAPH ANUPOKRITOS, APOSTUGOUNTES TO PONHRON, KOLLWMENOI TWi AGAQWiTH FILADELFIA EIS ALLHLOUS FILOSTORGOI, THi TIMH ALLHLOUS PROHGOUMENOI,THi SPOUDHi MH OKNHROI, TWi PNEUMATI ZEONTES, TWi KURIW DOULEUONTES,THi ELPIDI CAIRONTES, THi QLIYEI hUPOMENONTES, THi PROSECHi PROSKARTEROUNTES, TAIS CREIAIS TWN hAGIWN KOINWNOUNTES, THN FILOXENIAN DIWKONTES. Yancy Smith, PhDyancywsmith at sbcglobal.netY.W.Smith at tcu.eduyancy at wbtc.com5636 Wedgworth RoadFort Worth, TX 76133817-361-7565On Dec 3, 2009, at 5:40 PM, George F Somsel wrote:> It is a matter of interpretation, but I would understand the participles here as expressing the manner in which they were to perform the action of the main verbs.> > george> gfsomsel > > > … search for truth, hear truth, > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, > defend the truth till death.> > > – Jan Hus> _________ > > > > > ________________________________> From: Thomas Hagen <thomas.hagen at libero.it>> To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:38:33 PM> Subject: [] Matthew 28: 19,20> > Dear friends –> > > > I have two questions concerning Matthew 28:19, 20.> > > > 19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.> > > > 19πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνευματος, 20διδάσκοντες αὐτοὺς τηρεῖν πάντα ὅσα ἐνετειλάμην ὑμῖν· καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μετ’ ὑμῶν εἰμὶ πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας ἕως τῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος.> > > > 19POREUQENTES OUN MAQHTEUSATE PANTA TA EQNH, BAPTIZONTES AUTOUS EIS TO ONOMA TOU PATROS KAI TOU hUIOU KAI TOU hAGIOU PNEUMATOS, > > 20 DIDASKONTES AUTOUS THREIN PANTA hOSA ENETEILAMHN UMIN· KAI IDOU EGW MET’ UMWN EIMI PASAS TAS hHMERAS hEWS THS SUNTELEIAS TOU AIWNOS.> > > > > > The first question concerns the participles βαπτίζοντες / BAPTIZONTES and διδάσκοντες / DIDASKONTES. I would like to ask if these participles are causal or descriptive; that is, do they explain how disciples are to be made (by baptizing… and by teaching…) or do they describe what accompanies the making of disciples (baptism and teaching). There may not be a great difference between the two, but if Greek makes such a difference I would like to know.> > > > The second question concerns the meaning of τηρεῖν / THREIN in verse 20. I would like to know if in this context it means keep in the sense of “putting into practice” or in the sense of “preserving, conserving, guarding carefully so as not to lose”. > > > > I hope I have succeeded in clearly explaining my questions. Thank you for any enlightenment you can give me.> > > > Thomas Hagen> > Livorno, Italy > —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > > > —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] Matthew 28: 19,20[] Matthew 28: 19,20

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 John Sanders john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com
Fri Dec 4 06:38:03 EST 2009

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 [] Matthew 28: 19,20 I view this way,First, the participals are are related to a substantive in an adjectivalrelation. The substantive here is the participal POREUQENTES, which goesback to verse 16, the MAQHTAI, specifically the eleven. Using Thomas’sterminology, it is descriptive-the ones sent…be baptizing…be teaching.Secondly, the participals are related to the main verb, MAQHTEUSATE in asupporting role, they are making disciples (while)…baptizing…teaching.Again, using Thomas’s terminology, they are causal.So I would think the answer lies in which direction one is viewing theparticipals-as adjectives toward the subject (descriptive) or as verbstoward the object (causal). In this case the subjects are MAQHTAI and theobjects are MAQHTAI-in-the-making.– John SandersSuzhou, China

[] Matthew 28: 19,20[] Matthew 28: 19,20

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Dec 4 06:54:45 EST 2009

[] Phemister Greek NT Audio [] How about a audio Bible? It is terminological choices, sometimes those of traditional grammatical analysis, all too often those of academic linguists, that drive me up the wall, especially when they are inconsistent with the choices made by others. I think there is no greater impediment to meaningful discussion of grammatical structures than lack of consensus on descriptive terminology. I don’t fault anyone in particular here, because I think we are all guilty of it. I have problems here with some fundamental terms and the way they seem to be applied.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret) On Friday, December 04, 2009, at 06:38AM, “John Sanders” <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com> wrote:>I view this way,> >First, the participals are are related to a substantive in an adjectival>relation. The substantive here is the participal POREUQENTES, which goes>back to verse 16, the MAQHTAI, specifically the eleven. Using Thomas’s>terminology, it is descriptive-the ones sent…be baptizing…be teaching.CWC: I simply don’t understand this; I wouldn’t call POREUQENTES a substantive at all; MAQHTAI is indeed the substantive to which POREUQENTES is related, but I would argue that POREUQENTES, although taking its gender and number from MAQHTAI, construes adverbially with the imperative MAQHTEUSATE. Taking the road is an essential concomitant of making disciples.> >Secondly, the participals are related to the main verb, MAQHTEUSATE in a>supporting role, they are making disciples (while)…baptizing…teaching.>Again, using Thomas’s terminology, they are causal.CWC: Here I think I’d agree with the analysis: BAPTIZEIN and DIDASKEIN are indicated as essential concomitant aspects of MAQHTEUSAI — but it seems to me misguided to call the participles BAPTIZONTES and DIDASKONTES “causal.” Ordinarily when we refer to a participle as “causal” we mean that it explains or gives a reason for the action of the main verb: e.g., AGAPWNTES TREFOMEN TA PAIDIA (“we feed the children because we love them”).> >So I would think the answer lies in which direction one is viewing the>participals-as adjectives toward the subject (descriptive) or as verbs>toward the object (causal). In this case the subjects are MAQHTAI and the>objects are MAQHTAI-in-the-making.>— >John Sanders>Suzhou, China

[] Phemister Greek NT Audio[] How about a audio Bible?

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 Barry nebarry at verizon.net
Fri Dec 4 06:55:08 EST 2009

[] Matthew 28: 19,20 [] Phemister Greek NT Audio ————————————————–From: “John Sanders” <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com>Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:38 AMTo: <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>Cc: ” ” < at lists.ibiblio.org>Subject: Re: [] Matthew 28: 19,20> I view this way,> > First, the participals are are related to a substantive in an adjectival> relation. The substantive here is the participal POREUQENTES, which goes> back to verse 16, the MAQHTAI, specifically the eleven. Using Thomas’s> terminology, it is descriptive-the ones sent…be baptizing…be teaching.> > Secondly, the participals are related to the main verb, MAQHTEUSATE in a> supporting role, they are making disciples (while)…baptizing…teaching.> Again, using Thomas’s terminology, they are causal.> > So I would think the answer lies in which direction one is viewing the> participals-as adjectives toward the subject (descriptive) or as verbs> toward the object (causal). In this case the subjects are MAQHTAI and the> objects are MAQHTAI-in-the-making.The participles are clearly predicate participles, which means it is primarily the action of the verbs modifying the main verb, μαθητεύσατε, MAQHTEUSATE. I would say that the the participles explain the action of the main verb, and hence are epegetical or perhaps instrumental. They really answer the question of “how” the apostles are to make disciples. If we think that “baptizing” and “teaching” is what produces disciples, then you could make a case for causal participles.Now, normally I don’t weigh in on these discussion, but I wanted to make a point. This discussion illustrates the sometimes arbitrary nature of our grammatical categories, much like Wallace and his multiplicity of genitives. I am not at all sure that an ancient reader or hearer, who used the language simply to communicate, would “hear” these differences, or even wonder about them. He would understand what he was being instructed to do, however. And that, I would suggest, is the main deal.N.E. Barry HofstetterFecisti nos ad te et inquietum est cor nostrum, donec requiescat in te… — Augustine, Confessions 1:1http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry/http://my.opera.com/BarryHofstetter/blog/

[] Matthew 28: 19,20[] Phemister Greek NT Audio

[bible passage=”Matthew 28:19″]

Matthew 28:19 PANTA TA EQNH (acc.) make disciples of all the nations (DBY) OR disciple all the nations (YLT) ?

Dony K. Donev