1 Corinthians 12:30

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Jeffrey T. Requadt jeff at requadt.com
Fri Aug 27 12:19:44 EDT 2004

[] NET – Novum Testamentum Graece Diglot (Greek / English) [] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide I’m new to this list, but I can’t find this question in the archives. Doesanyone know why in 1 Corinthians 12:31, ZHLOUTE (“desire, seek”) istranslated/interpreted as an imperative in every version I can find exceptThe Message? (I use the “Every Version” tool in Logos, which has 20-oddEnglish versions) According to Mounce’s Analytical Lexicon, this form can beeither indicative, imperative, or subjunctive. I have cautiously ruled outthe subjunctive because I can’t think of a way in context that it would makesense (unless as a rhetorical question? But there are no other words whichwould indicate this), but it seems to make more sense to me in the contextof the themes of the epistle, and especially in light of Paul’s point thatevery part is necessary to the body, and the toe shouldn’t try to be an eye,etc., that he would be using ZHLOUTE DE TA CHARISMATA TA MEIZONA (“(you)seek the greater gifts”) in an indicative sense. I.e., not “this is what youshould do” but “this is what you are doing.” Then the meaning would beironic, such as, “All of you have your own gift and purpose in the church,but you continue to seek (or are seeking) the ‘greater’ gifts. And yet Iwill show you a better way.” Maybe I’m missing some detail in the parsing,but as far as I can tell this is a 2nd person plural, present activeindicative/imperative/subjunctive. So my question comes down to, what in thetext leads translators to believe that this an imperative, not anindicative? It seems to me that this could affect one’s exegesis of thepassage. Thanks for any help. And by the way, there is no NET note on thisword, so I’m lost. Also, I’ve noticed that some discussion concerns Logos. There is adownloadable user’s guide available at www.swcaz.edu <http://www.swcaz.edu/>, but please note that it is not done by the company themselves or by theprogrammers, but by people who have had to use Logos without a manual orguide and got frustrated and wrote their own for other people like them.There is a chapter on using Logos with the original languages. I’m sure theywould appreciate feedback if you have it.Jeffrey T. Requadt~~~~~~~~~~~~~~”Freeeeeeeeeedoooooooooom!” ~ Braveheart~~~~~~~~~~~~~~2625 E. Cactus Rd.Phoenix, AZ 85032Phone: (602) 652-1230 x 4111

[] NET – Novum Testamentum Graece Diglot (Greek / English)[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Aug 27 14:32:51 EDT 2004

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide [] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Jeffrey, there’s a discussion of this from January 6-7, 1997 which youshould be able to locate in the archives; the subject-header is Re: ZHLOUTEand DIWKETE (was MEIZONA). There are related threads from early January1997 entitled 1 Cor 12:31 MEIZONA and 1 Cor 12-14. You may find that livelydiscussion of interest.At 9:19 AM -0700 8/27/04, Jeffrey T. Requadt wrote:>I’m new to this list, but I can’t find this question in the archives. Does>anyone know why in 1 Corinthians 12:31, ZHLOUTE (“desire, seek”) is>translated/interpreted as an imperative in every version I can find except>The Message? (I use the “Every Version” tool in Logos, which has 20-odd>English versions) According to Mounce’s Analytical Lexicon, this form can be>either indicative, imperative, or subjunctive. I have cautiously ruled out>the subjunctive because I can’t think of a way in context that it would make>sense (unless as a rhetorical question? But there are no other words which>would indicate this), but it seems to make more sense to me in the context>of the themes of the epistle, and especially in light of Paul’s point that>every part is necessary to the body, and the toe shouldn’t try to be an eye,>etc., that he would be using ZHLOUTE DE TA CHARISMATA TA MEIZONA (“(you)>seek the greater gifts”) in an indicative sense. I.e., not “this is what you>should do” but “this is what you are doing.” Then the meaning would be>ironic, such as, “All of you have your own gift and purpose in the church,>but you continue to seek (or are seeking) the ‘greater’ gifts. And yet I>will show you a better way.” Maybe I’m missing some detail in the parsing,>but as far as I can tell this is a 2nd person plural, present active>indicative/imperative/subjunctive. So my question comes down to, what in the>text leads translators to believe that this an imperative, not an>indicative? It seems to me that this could affect one’s exegesis of the>passage. Thanks for any help. And by the way, there is no NET note on this>word, so I’m lost.> > > >Also, I’ve noticed that some discussion concerns Logos. There is a>downloadable user’s guide available at www.swcaz.edu <http://www.swcaz.edu/>>, but please note that it is not done by the company themselves or by the>programmers, but by people who have had to use Logos without a manual or>guide and got frustrated and wrote their own for other people like them.>There is a chapter on using Logos with the original languages. I’m sure they>would appreciate feedback if you have it.> >Jeffrey T. Requadt>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>“Freeeeeeeeeedoooooooooom!” ~ Braveheart>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>2625 E. Cactus Rd.>Phoenix, AZ 85032>Phone: (602) 652-1230 x 4111> > > >> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/— Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Maurice A. O’Sullivan mauros at iol.ie
Fri Aug 27 14:41:57 EDT 2004

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide [] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Jeffrey:You’re in good company <g>Here is whatEllingworth, P., Hatton, H., & Ellingworth, P. (1995). A handbook on Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians. Rev. ed. of: A translator’s handbook on Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians. UBS handbook series; Helps for translators (Page 289). New York: United Bible Societies.has to say on 1 Co. 12:31a >>This sentence may be either (1) an order, “strive for spiritual gifts,” or (2) a statement, “you strive for.” Most translations and commentaries choose (1), including the NIV text; but (2), which is mentioned in an NIV footnote, would make a good connection with verse 31b: “You Corinthians are struggling to obtain spiritual gifts, but I will show you a much better way,” the way of love. <<At 17:19 27/08/2004, Jeffrey T. Requadt wrote:>I’m new to this list, but I can’t find this question in the archives. Does>anyone know why in 1 Corinthians 12:31, ZHLOUTE (“desire, seek”) is>translated/interpreted as an imperative in every version I can find except>The Message? (I use the “Every Version” tool in Logos, which has 20-odd>English versions) According to Mounce’s Analytical Lexicon, this form can be>either indicative, imperative, or subjunctive. I have cautiously ruled out>the subjunctive because I can’t think of a way in context that it would make>sense (unless as a rhetorical question? But there are no other words which>would indicate this), but it seems to make more sense to me in the context>of the themes of the epistle, and especially in light of Paul’s point that>every part is necessary to the body, and the toe shouldn’t try to be an eye,>etc., that he would be using ZHLOUTE DE TA CHARISMATA TA MEIZONA (“(you)>seek the greater gifts”) in an indicative sense. I.e., not “this is what you>should do” but “this is what you are doing.” Then the meaning would be>ironic, such as, “All of you have your own gift and purpose in the church,>but you continue to seek (or are seeking) the ‘greater’ gifts. And yet I>will show you a better way.” Maybe I’m missing some detail in the parsing,>but as far as I can tell this is a 2nd person plural, present active>indicative/imperative/subjunctive. So my question comes down to, what in the>text leads translators to believe that this an imperative, not an>indicative? It seems to me that this could affect one’s exegesis of the>passage. Thanks for any help. And by the way, there is no NET note on this>word, so I’m lost.> > > >Also, I’ve noticed that some discussion concerns Logos. There is a>downloadable user’s guide available at www.swcaz.edu <http://www.swcaz.edu/>>, but please note that it is not done by the company themselves or by the>programmers, but by people who have had to use Logos without a manual or>guide and got frustrated and wrote their own for other people like them.>There is a chapter on using Logos with the original languages. I’m sure they>would appreciate feedback if you have it.> >Jeffrey T. Requadt>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>“Freeeeeeeeeedoooooooooom!” ~ Braveheart>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>2625 E. Cactus Rd.>Phoenix, AZ 85032>Phone: (602) 652-1230 x 4111> > > >> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/Maurice A. O’Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]mauros at iol.ie

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Fri Aug 27 15:08:32 EDT 2004

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide [] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Dear Jeffrey,I think the majority imperative view is based on a perceived misuse or inordinate desire for the gift of tongues. Paul would rather that Corinthians sought the gift of prophecy and related gifts. Whereas tongues tends not to be edifying, unless there is an interpreter, prophecy can be edifying to all. So Paul is recommending prophecy over against tongues.Yours,Harold Holmyard

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide Steven Lo Vullo slovullo at mac.com
Fri Aug 27 20:34:53 EDT 2004

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide [] NET – Novum Testamentum Graece Diglot (Greek / English) On Aug 27, 2004, at 11:19 AM, Jeffrey T. Requadt wrote:> I’m new to this list, but I can’t find this question in the archives. > Does> anyone know why in 1 Corinthians 12:31, ZHLOUTE (“desire, seek”) is> translated/interpreted as an imperative in every version I can find > except> The Message? (I use the “Every Version” tool in Logos, which has 20-odd> English versions) According to Mounce’s Analytical Lexicon, this form > can be> either indicative, imperative, or subjunctive. I have cautiously ruled > out> the subjunctive because I can’t think of a way in context that it > would make> sense (unless as a rhetorical question? But there are no other words > which> would indicate this), but it seems to make more sense to me in the > context> of the themes of the epistle, and especially in light of Paul’s point > that> every part is necessary to the body, and the toe shouldn’t try to be > an eye,> etc., that he would be using ZHLOUTE DE TA CHARISMATA TA MEIZONA > (“(you)> seek the greater gifts”) in an indicative sense. I.e., not “this is > what you> should do” but “this is what you are doing.” Then the meaning would be> ironic, such as, “All of you have your own gift and purpose in the > church,> but you continue to seek (or are seeking) the ‘greater’ gifts. And yet > I> will show you a better way.” Maybe I’m missing some detail in the > parsing,> but as far as I can tell this is a 2nd person plural, present active> indicative/imperative/subjunctive. So my question comes down to, what > in the> text leads translators to believe that this an imperative, not an> indicative? It seems to me that this could affect one’s exegesis of the> passage. Thanks for any help. And by the way, there is no NET note on > this> word, so I’m lost.Jeffrey, the imperative view is, in my opinion, virtually certain. Part of the evidence for it is precisely that the Corinthians WERE NOT seeking the greater gifts, as Paul defines “greater.” There was another thread on this issue besides the one mentioned by Carl. The subject was “ZHLOUTE (I Cor 12:31).” [Note that the “I” in “I Cor” is the Roman numeral I, i.e., the capital letter I.] For some reason, some of the posts also ended up under the subject “NUN plus Aorist” (and perhaps under others). One of my posts <http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-November/023334.html> was a somewhat lengthy treatment of this question, which I think at least some found helpful. If I remember correctly, Iver Larsen contacted me off-list to inform me that as a result of this post he decided to correct the translation of 1Cor 12.31 in the Swedish version he had worked on.============Steven Lo VulloMadison, WI

[] 1 Corinthians 12:30 and Logos user’s guide[] NET – Novum Testamentum Graece Diglot (Greek / English)

People who read this article also liked:

[AuthorRecommendedPosts]