Jude 5

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 c stirling bartholomew cc.constantine at worldnet.att.net
Fri Nov 23 17:08:50 EST 2001

 

BDAG for class Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Jude 5-7 P-R MajText5 UPOMNHSAI DE UMAS BOULOMAI EIDOTAS UMAS APAX TOUTO OTI O KURIOS LAON EKGHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS TO DEUTERON TOUS MH PISTEUSANTAS APWLESEN 6 AGGELOUS TETOUS MH THRHSANTAS THN EAUTWN ARCHN ALLA APOLIPONTAS TO IDION OIKHTHRION EISKRISIN MEGALHS HMERAS DESMOIS AIDIOIS UPO ZOFON TETHRHKEN 7 WS SODOMA KAIGOMORRA KAI AI PERI AUTAS POLEIS TON OMOION TOUTOIS TROPON EKPORNEUSASAI KAIAPELQOUSAI OPISW SARKOS ETERAS PROKEINTAI DEIGMA PUROS AIWNIOU DIKHNUPECOUSAI A Frame*** is not a topic, but it is related. A Frame is somewhat morespecific and also more complex than a presupposition.Looking at Jd 5-7 MT we see several frames introduced in short succession:In Jd 5, OTI O KURIOS LAON EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS introduces the Exodus as aFrame***. I am going to break some rules and claim that the topic here isthe entire O KURIOS LAON EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS and that the comment overlapsthe topic. The comment being: LAON EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS TO DEUTERON TOUSMH PISTEUSANTAS APWLESEN. If this analysis seems untidy, then perhaps weshould suggest O KURIOS as the topic but I have problems with that.In Jd 6, AGGELOUS TE TOUS MH THRHSANTAS THN EAUTWN ARCHN ALLA APOLIPONTASTO IDION OIKHTHRION introduces a new Frame the details of which are found inGen 6 and 1Enoch. Here the topic again is AGGELOUS . . . and the commentis: KRISIN MEGALHS HMERAS DESMOIS AIDIOIS UPO ZOFON TETHRHKEN.In Jd 7, SODOMA KAI GOMORRA KAI AI PERI AUTAS POLEIS introduces a newFrame and are also the topic. The fate of SODOMA KAI GOMORRA is the comment:TON OMOION TOUTOIS TROPON EKPORNEUSASAI KAI APELQOUSAI OPISW SARKOS ETERASPROKEINTAI DEIGMA PUROS AIWNIOU DIKHN UPECOUSAI.This analysis isn’t perfect. Perhaps the topics need to be reduced in thefirst two examples to O KURIOS and AGGELOUS. I will not argue about that.The main point is that a Frame is something more complex and subtle than apresupposition. A Frame is a whole system of concepts which are introducedto the discourse as a package. Once the frame is instantiated (brought intoaction) the whole complex system of notions associated with that Framebecome “active” in the discourse.Obviously I am still sorting all this stuff out. I am sure that the guyslike Wayne and Iver will find numerous things wrong here but progress,however slow, seems to be made over time by trying to put these ideas towork on real texts.greetings, Clay– Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062***Heimerdinger* (page 138) quotes from Filmore**”By the term ‘frame’ I have in mind any system of concepts related in such away that to understand any of them you have to understand the wholestructure in which it fits; when one of the things in such a structure isintroduced into a text, or into a conversation, all of the others areautomatically made available.”*Heimerdinger, Jean-Marc. Topic, focus and foreground in ancient Hebrewnarratives, Sheffield Academic Press, c1999.**Filmore, Charles J.. Frame Semantics in Linguistic Society of Korea(eds.), Linguistic in the Morning Calm (Hashin Pub .Co. 1982): pps. 111-38.

 

BDAG for classFrames & Topic in Jude 5-7

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Warren Fulton warren at inlingua.at
Sat Nov 24 06:02:34 EST 2001

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 To: Clayton Stirling BartholomewI am new at discourse analysis and am trying to get a handle on yourkey concept of “frame” before I delve into Levinsohn’s book over theholidays. In your last post, you gave us a definition and then threeexamples.>Looking at Jd 5-7 MT we see several frames introduced in short succession:>In Jd 5, OTI O KURIOS LAON EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS introduces the Exodus as>a frame.[…]>In Jd 6, AGGELOUS TE TOUS MH THRHSANTAS THN EAUTWN ARCHN ALLA APOLIPONTAS>TO IDION OIKHTHRION introduces a new frame the details of which are found >in Gen 6 and 1Enoch.[…]>In Jd 7, SODOMA KAI GOMORRA KAI AI PERI AUTAS POLEIS introduces a new>frame…So the “frames” introduced here are the Exodus, the Rebellion of theAngels, and Sodom & Gomorra. From these examples can I conclude thata frame is something like a literary or folk story element, what someliterary critics and Bible commentators call a topos? Ernst RobertCurtius: “Topoi are set pieces (cliches), models of thought andexpression” that derive from literary or folk traditions.>Once the frame is instantiated (brought into action) the whole complex>system of notions associated with that frame become “active” in the>discourse.This sounds like what literary critics would call making an allusion,activating a topos and all its associations in the mind of the reader.I realize discourse analysis and literary criticism are differentfields, but they both deal with texts, levels of meaning, andcommunication theory. Am I on the right track here?Warren FultonInlingua School of LanguagesVienna, Austria

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Ted Mann theomann at earthlink.net
Sat Nov 24 09:12:12 EST 2001

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Are there any good sites dealing with discourse analysis?TedDr. Theodore H. Manntheomann at earthlink.nethttp://home.earthlink.net/~theomann—– Original Message —–From: “Warren Fulton” <warren at inlingua.at>To: “Biblical Greek” < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 6:02 AMSubject: [] Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7> > To: Clayton Stirling Bartholomew> > I am new at discourse analysis and am trying to get a handle on your> key concept of “frame” before I delve into Levinsohn’s book over the> holidays. In your last post, you gave us a definition and then three> examples.> > >Looking at Jd 5-7 MT we see several frames introduced in shortsuccession:> >In Jd 5, OTI O KURIOS LAON EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS introduces the Exodus as> >a frame.> […]> >In Jd 6, AGGELOUS TE TOUS MH THRHSANTAS THN EAUTWN ARCHN ALLA APOLIPONTAS> >TO IDION OIKHTHRION introduces a new frame the details of which are found> >in Gen 6 and 1Enoch.> […]> >In Jd 7, SODOMA KAI GOMORRA KAI AI PERI AUTAS POLEIS introduces a new> >frame…> > So the “frames” introduced here are the Exodus, the Rebellion of the> Angels, and Sodom & Gomorra. From these examples can I conclude that> a frame is something like a literary or folk story element, what some> literary critics and Bible commentators call a topos? Ernst Robert> Curtius: “Topoi are set pieces (cliches), models of thought and> expression” that derive from literary or folk traditions.> > >Once the frame is instantiated (brought into action) the whole complex> >system of notions associated with that frame become “active” in the> >discourse.> > This sounds like what literary critics would call making an allusion,> activating a topos and all its associations in the mind of the reader.> I realize discourse analysis and literary criticism are different> fields, but they both deal with texts, levels of meaning, and> communication theory. Am I on the right track here?> > Warren Fulton> Inlingua School of Languages> Vienna, Austria> >> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: [theomann at earthlink.net]> To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> >

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Wayne Leman wayne_leman at sil.org
Sat Nov 24 10:53:27 EST 2001

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Try this one, Ted:http://www.ovc.edu/discourse/index.htmWayne—–Wayne LemanBible Translation discussion list:http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/discuss.htm> Are there any good sites dealing with discourse analysis?> > Ted> Dr. Theodore H. Mann

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Wayne Leman wayne_leman at sil.org
Sat Nov 24 11:48:36 EST 2001

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Ted, here is an introductory textbook, by discourse analysts Bob Dooley andStephen Levinsohn, in PDF format:http://www.und.nodak.edu/dept/linguistics/textbooks/DooleyLevinsohn.pdfThe textbook is now published, available from:http://www.ethnologue.com/show_catalog.asp?by=auth&name=Dooley%2C+RobertAlso a number of books on biblical discourse analysis are available fromthis webpage:http://www.sil.org/translation/Biblio.htm#4.%20OriginalWayne—–Wayne LemanBible Translation discussion list:http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/discuss.htm> Are there any good sites dealing with discourse analysis?> > Ted> Dr. Theodore H. Mann

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Wayne Leman wayne_leman at sil.org
Sat Nov 24 12:20:45 EST 2001

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Ted, you may also find this course syllabus with bibliography helpful:http://www.geocities.com/priddelluk/LingOutline.htmWayne—–Wayne LemanBible Translation discussion list:http://www.geocities.com/bible_translation/discuss.htm> > Are there any good sites dealing with discourse analysis?> >> > Ted> > Dr. Theodore H. Mann

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 c stirling bartholomew cc.constantine at worldnet.att.net
Sat Nov 24 13:57:56 EST 2001

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7 Use of MH on 11/24/01 3:02 AM, Warren Fulton wrote:> So the “frames” introduced here are the Exodus, the Rebellion of the> Angels, and Sodom & Gomorra. From these examples can I conclude that> a frame is something like a literary or folk story element, what some> literary critics and Bible commentators call a topos? Ernst Robert> Curtius: “Topoi are set pieces (cliches), models of thought and> expression” that derive from literary or folk traditions.> >> Once the frame is instantiated (brought into action) the whole complex>> system of notions associated with that frame become “active” in the>> discourse.> > This sounds like what literary critics would call making an allusion,> activating a topos and all its associations in the mind of the reader.> I realize discourse analysis and literary criticism are different> fields, but they both deal with texts, levels of meaning, and> communication theory. Am I on the right track here?Warren,Yes you are on the right track. A topos sounds like it would be a subset ofthe more abstract cognitive concept of a frame. A frame need not haveanything to do with literature. If someone walks up to me in Seahurst Parkand says “Fine Day,” and I respond “the barometer is dropping.” Barometerdoes not need to be introduction into the discourse as a new item since thestatement “Fine Day” has activated the frame Weather.Jd 4 PAREISEDUSAN GAR TINES ANQRWPOIOI PALAI PROGEGRAMMENOI EIS TOUTO TO KRIMAASEBEIS THN TOU QEOU HMWN CARIN METATIQENTES EIS ASELGEIANKAI TON MONON DESPOTHN QEON KAIKURION HMWN IHSOUN CRISTON ARNOUMENOIIn Jude we see frames within frames.Jd 4PAREISEDUSAN GAR TINES ANQRWPOIOI PALAI PROGEGRAMMENOI EIS TOUTO TO KRIMAKRIMA is a frame which stays active through out the middle portion of theletter. KRIMA is introduced in verse 4 as if it were “old information” witha demonstrative pronoun TOUTO. This raises the question, why is KRIMAreferenced as if the frame was already active? Perhaps the answer to this isthat TOUTO is not anaphoric here but is performing a presentationalfunction. Once the KRIMA frame is active then Jude cites examples (Exodus, Sodom,Angels). Each example takes advantage of the KRIMA frame being active. Judedoes not need to waste a lot of words explaining these three examples in5-7. They all function cognitively within the KRIMA frame which contains acomplex structure of shared information necessary to make sense of theexamples. Within the KRIMA frame, each example (Exodus, Sodom, Angels) points to aninformation structure including literary and historical information whichcan be thought of as shared “stories.” These stories function as frameswithin the KRIMA frame. The activation of the Exodus, Sodom, Angels framesallows Jude to abbreviate his allusions. Without the Frames these referenceswould be extremely cryptic.Keep in mind that I am just sort of muddling through here with some wildstabs in the dark so to speak. BTW, I don’t think Levinsohn actuallydiscusses Frames, at least I don’t remember seeing him use the term.Thanks for the question.Greetings,Clay — Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

 

Frames & Topic in Jude 5-7Use of MH

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