Matthew 11:28

Matt 11:28-30 chiasm or parallelism? Steve Long steve at allegrographics.com
Mon May 17 13:44:55 EDT 1999

 

Luke 13.2,4 (was Re: aramaic influence) Luke’s Semitic Style Is there a chiasm or parallelism happening here?DEUTE PROS ME PANTES OI KOPIONTES KAI PEFORTISMENOI KAGW ANAPAUSW UMASARATE TON ZUGON MOU EF UMAS KAI MAQETE AP EMOUOTI PRAUS EIMI KAI TAPEINOS TH KARDIA KAI EURHSETE ANAPAUSIN TAIS YUCAIS HMWNO YAR ZUGOS MOU CRHSTOS KAI TO FORTION MOU ELAFRON ESTINIt seems to me as if there should be, but I can’t see the pattern. It seemsas if CRHSTOS is a synonym of PRAUS and ELAFRON of TAPEINOS, kind-gentle,humble-insignificant. Is there a wider pattern in these verses?Would it be fair to say that his yoke, that which is attached to the oxento lead them, is kind and gentle, in other words he leads us with kindnessand gentleness, and the burden he places upon us is a requirement forhumility, to learn and be like him?It seems as if there is some word play here in the use of CRHSTOS and ELAFRON.Steve—————————————————————————–| Allegro Graphics, Inc. — Allegro Digital Media, Inc. || 4132 Industrial Drive| | Saint Peters, Missouri 63376 || 1-888-819-8166 Toll Free| —————————————————————————–|Specializing in Database-Managed Printing and Webhosting|—————————————————————————–eve

 

Luke 13.2,4 (was Re: aramaic influence)Luke’s Semitic Style

Matt 11:28-30 chiasm or parallelism? Steve Long steve at allegrographics.com
Mon May 17 13:44:55 EDT 1999

 

Luke 13.2,4 (was Re: aramaic influence) Luke’s Semitic Style Is there a chiasm or parallelism happening here?DEUTE PROS ME PANTES OI KOPIONTES KAI PEFORTISMENOI KAGW ANAPAUSW UMASARATE TON ZUGON MOU EF UMAS KAI MAQETE AP EMOUOTI PRAUS EIMI KAI TAPEINOS TH KARDIA KAI EURHSETE ANAPAUSIN TAIS YUCAIS HMWNO YAR ZUGOS MOU CRHSTOS KAI TO FORTION MOU ELAFRON ESTINIt seems to me as if there should be, but I can’t see the pattern. It seemsas if CRHSTOS is a synonym of PRAUS and ELAFRON of TAPEINOS, kind-gentle,humble-insignificant. Is there a wider pattern in these verses?Would it be fair to say that his yoke, that which is attached to the oxento lead them, is kind and gentle, in other words he leads us with kindnessand gentleness, and the burden he places upon us is a requirement forhumility, to learn and be like him?It seems as if there is some word play here in the use of CRHSTOS and ELAFRON.Steve—————————————————————————–| Allegro Graphics, Inc. — Allegro Digital Media, Inc. || 4132 Industrial Drive| | Saint Peters, Missouri 63376 || 1-888-819-8166 Toll Free| —————————————————————————–|Specializing in Database-Managed Printing and Webhosting|—————————————————————————–eve

 

Luke 13.2,4 (was Re: aramaic influence)Luke’s Semitic Style

Matt 11:28-30 chiasm or parallelism? Kevin L. Barney klbarney at yahoo.com
Mon May 17 22:13:17 EDT 1999

 

Grammatical errors in Revelation? Grammatical errors in Revelation? Hi, Steve–The bibliographic index in _Chiasmus in Antiquity_ reports that Nils Lund addresses these verses in his _Chiasmus in the New Testament_ (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1942), at pages 298-301. Lund is also cited by Angelico Di Marco in an unpublished manuscript, _Il Chiasmo nella Bibbia_ (Messina 1975), which is available in German translation in Linguistica Biblica 39:40. The Di Marco manuscript is pretty obscure, but I’m sure a number of ers would have a copy of Lund on their shelf (I do not), and perhaps someone would be willing to look this up for you.The chiasm I see would be something likeA. heavy laden B. yoke upon you C. heart C’. souls B’. yoke is easyA’. burden is lightwhere heart//souls is a Semitic parallel word pair. If this is a legitimate chiasm, unless I am missing something it is rather loosely woven across the three verses. (I would however be curious to see what Lund has to say if anyone has the volume handy.)Kevin L. BarneyHoffman Estates, Illinoisklbarney at yahoo.com

 

Grammatical errors in Revelation?Grammatical errors in Revelation?

Matt 11:28-30 chiasm or parallelism? Kevin L. Barney klbarney at yahoo.com
Mon May 17 22:13:17 EDT 1999

 

Grammatical errors in Revelation? Grammatical errors in Revelation? Hi, Steve–The bibliographic index in _Chiasmus in Antiquity_ reports that Nils Lund addresses these verses in his _Chiasmus in the New Testament_ (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1942), at pages 298-301. Lund is also cited by Angelico Di Marco in an unpublished manuscript, _Il Chiasmo nella Bibbia_ (Messina 1975), which is available in German translation in Linguistica Biblica 39:40. The Di Marco manuscript is pretty obscure, but I’m sure a number of ers would have a copy of Lund on their shelf (I do not), and perhaps someone would be willing to look this up for you.The chiasm I see would be something likeA. heavy laden B. yoke upon you C. heart C’. souls B’. yoke is easyA’. burden is lightwhere heart//souls is a Semitic parallel word pair. If this is a legitimate chiasm, unless I am missing something it is rather loosely woven across the three verses. (I would however be curious to see what Lund has to say if anyone has the volume handy.)Kevin L. BarneyHoffman Estates, Illinoisklbarney at yahoo.com

 

Grammatical errors in Revelation?Grammatical errors in Revelation?

Matt 11:28-30 Jonathan Ryder jpr1001 at cam.ac.uk
Tue May 18 04:26:20 EDT 1999

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWN Syntax Mark 8:4 “Kevin L. Barney” wrote:> Hi, Steve–> > The bibliographic index in _Chiasmus in Antiquity_ reports that NilsLund> addresses these verses in his _Chiasmus in the New Testament_ (ChapelHill:> University of North Carolina Press, 1942), at pages 298-301. Lund isalso> cited by Angelico Di Marco in an unpublished manuscript, _Il Chiasmonella> Bibbia_ (Messina 1975), which is available in German translation in> Linguistica Biblica 39:40. The Di Marco manuscript is pretty obscure,but> I’m sure a number of ers would have a copy of Lund on theirshelf (I> do not), and perhaps someone would be willing to look this up for you.> > The chiasm I see would be something like> > A. heavy laden> B. yoke upon you> C. heart> C’. souls> B’. yoke is easy> A’. burden is light> > where heart//souls is a Semitic parallel word pair. If this is a> legitimate chiasm, unless I am missing something it is rather looselywoven> across the three verses. (I would however be curious to see what Lundhas> to say if anyone has the volume handy.)> > Kevin L. BarneyHi Kevin and Steve and ers worldwide,I don’t have time to do this, but I happened to have Lund on my desk,and so couldn’tresist:Come unto me, all ye that labour and are *heavy laden* And I will give you *rest* Take my yoke upon you and learn of me For I am meek and lowly of heart And ye shall find *rest* unto your soulsFor my yoke is easy and my *burden* light* are mine indicating some of key terms in chiasm. Lund states there are2corresponding terms in line 1 and 6 and two in line’s 3 and 4For what it’s worth, Lund is here discussing Luke’s transformation of Mt11:25-30,where 25-26=A, 27=B, 28-30=C, where A,B,C are each chiasms and there isa progressivethought through A to C …Luke quotes A verbatim, modifies B and omits CJonathan RyderCambridgeUK

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWNSyntax Mark 8:4

Matt 11:28-30 Jonathan Ryder jpr1001 at cam.ac.uk
Tue May 18 04:26:20 EDT 1999

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWN Syntax Mark 8:4 “Kevin L. Barney” wrote:> Hi, Steve–> > The bibliographic index in _Chiasmus in Antiquity_ reports that NilsLund> addresses these verses in his _Chiasmus in the New Testament_ (ChapelHill:> University of North Carolina Press, 1942), at pages 298-301. Lund isalso> cited by Angelico Di Marco in an unpublished manuscript, _Il Chiasmonella> Bibbia_ (Messina 1975), which is available in German translation in> Linguistica Biblica 39:40. The Di Marco manuscript is pretty obscure,but> I’m sure a number of ers would have a copy of Lund on theirshelf (I> do not), and perhaps someone would be willing to look this up for you.> > The chiasm I see would be something like> > A. heavy laden> B. yoke upon you> C. heart> C’. souls> B’. yoke is easy> A’. burden is light> > where heart//souls is a Semitic parallel word pair. If this is a> legitimate chiasm, unless I am missing something it is rather looselywoven> across the three verses. (I would however be curious to see what Lundhas> to say if anyone has the volume handy.)> > Kevin L. BarneyHi Kevin and Steve and ers worldwide,I don’t have time to do this, but I happened to have Lund on my desk,and so couldn’tresist:Come unto me, all ye that labour and are *heavy laden* And I will give you *rest* Take my yoke upon you and learn of me For I am meek and lowly of heart And ye shall find *rest* unto your soulsFor my yoke is easy and my *burden* light* are mine indicating some of key terms in chiasm. Lund states there are2corresponding terms in line 1 and 6 and two in line’s 3 and 4For what it’s worth, Lund is here discussing Luke’s transformation of Mt11:25-30,where 25-26=A, 27=B, 28-30=C, where A,B,C are each chiasms and there isa progressivethought through A to C …Luke quotes A verbatim, modifies B and omits CJonathan RyderCambridgeUK

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWNSyntax Mark 8:4

Matt 11:28-30 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue May 18 09:29:05 EDT 1999

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWN None >For my yoke is easy and my *burden* lightDoes anyone object to translating XRHSTOS as “ergonomic” or “user-friendly?”

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWNNone

Matt 11:28-30 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue May 18 09:29:05 EDT 1999

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWN None >For my yoke is easy and my *burden* lightDoes anyone object to translating XRHSTOS as “ergonomic” or “user-friendly?”

 

Mark 2:16 hOI GRAMMATEIS TWN FARISAIWNNone

Matt 11:28-30 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue May 18 12:56:48 EDT 1999

 

What is “bad Greek”? (was “Grammatical errors in Revelation?”) Hebrews 11:1 At 8:29 AM -0500 5/18/99, Bill Ross wrote:>>For my yoke is easy and my *burden* light> >Does anyone object to translating XRHSTOS as “ergonomic” or “user-friendly?”It’s a common epithet for slaves, at least in Attic Greek–and I rathersuspect that ONHSIMOS, as the name given to Philemon’s slave, is simplysynonymous with CRHSTOS in that sense. Would you want to call a slave”ergonomic” or “user-friendly”? This all strikes me, although I assume itwasn’t so meant, as having sexual overtones–and the verb CRHOMAI (I preferto write it that way rather than CRAOMAI, since the contract forms don’tfollow normally A-W patterns) has, as one of its very many meanings, “takeadvantage of sexually.”Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

 

What is “bad Greek”? (was “Grammatical errors in Revelation?”)Hebrews 11:1

Matt 11:28-30 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue May 18 12:56:48 EDT 1999

 

What is “bad Greek”? (was “Grammatical errors in Revelation?”) Hebrews 11:1 At 8:29 AM -0500 5/18/99, Bill Ross wrote:>>For my yoke is easy and my *burden* light> >Does anyone object to translating XRHSTOS as “ergonomic” or “user-friendly?”It’s a common epithet for slaves, at least in Attic Greek–and I rathersuspect that ONHSIMOS, as the name given to Philemon’s slave, is simplysynonymous with CRHSTOS in that sense. Would you want to call a slave”ergonomic” or “user-friendly”? This all strikes me, although I assume itwasn’t so meant, as having sexual overtones–and the verb CRHOMAI (I preferto write it that way rather than CRAOMAI, since the contract forms don’tfollow normally A-W patterns) has, as one of its very many meanings, “takeadvantage of sexually.”Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

 

What is “bad Greek”? (was “Grammatical errors in Revelation?”)Hebrews 11:1

Matt 11:28-30 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue May 18 14:14:29 EDT 1999

 

Hebrews 11:1 Machen’s Answer Key: FOUND! Perhaps “handy” would be closer to the etymology. It would also relate tohow we call hired help “hands” as in “all hands on deck.”I didn’t intend to allude to sex, but it would be an interesting euphemismto say that a woman was “user-friendly.”Bill Ross

 

Hebrews 11:1Machen’s Answer Key: FOUND!

Matt 11:28-30 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue May 18 14:14:29 EDT 1999

 

Hebrews 11:1 Machen’s Answer Key: FOUND! Perhaps “handy” would be closer to the etymology. It would also relate tohow we call hired help “hands” as in “all hands on deck.”I didn’t intend to allude to sex, but it would be an interesting euphemismto say that a woman was “user-friendly.”Bill Ross

 

Hebrews 11:1Machen’s Answer Key: FOUND!

Matt 11:28-30 Kevin L. Barney klbarney at yahoo.com
Tue May 18 17:11:55 EDT 1999

 

What is “bad Greek”? Matt 11:28-30 I agree with Carl’s comments equating CRHSTOS with ONHSIMOS; in Philemon, Paul plays upon the name ONHSIMOS using the word CRHSTOS (that is, now Onesimus will be really “useful,” not in name only).But this raises another question. If CRHSTOS generally has the sense of that which is good, useful or serviceable, why do virtually all translations take it as “easy” here? Going back to Steve’s original question, it seems to me that translators are (properly) being influenced by ELAFRON, as Steve suspected, because the two terms are in a parallel construction. That is,For my yoke is CRHSTOSand my burden is ELAFRON.where the “yoke” and the “burden” are parallel, as are CRHSTOS and ELAFRON. Since ELAFRON means “light to bear, easy,” that adjective seems to have colored the common translation of CRHSTOS in this verse.Kevin L. BarneyHoffman Estates, Illinoisklbarney at yahoo.com

 

What is “bad Greek”?Matt 11:28-30

Matt 11:28-30 Kevin L. Barney klbarney at yahoo.com
Tue May 18 17:11:55 EDT 1999

 

What is “bad Greek”? Matt 11:28-30 I agree with Carl’s comments equating CRHSTOS with ONHSIMOS; in Philemon, Paul plays upon the name ONHSIMOS using the word CRHSTOS (that is, now Onesimus will be really “useful,” not in name only).But this raises another question. If CRHSTOS generally has the sense of that which is good, useful or serviceable, why do virtually all translations take it as “easy” here? Going back to Steve’s original question, it seems to me that translators are (properly) being influenced by ELAFRON, as Steve suspected, because the two terms are in a parallel construction. That is,For my yoke is CRHSTOSand my burden is ELAFRON.where the “yoke” and the “burden” are parallel, as are CRHSTOS and ELAFRON. Since ELAFRON means “light to bear, easy,” that adjective seems to have colored the common translation of CRHSTOS in this verse.Kevin L. BarneyHoffman Estates, Illinoisklbarney at yahoo.com

 

What is “bad Greek”?Matt 11:28-30

Matt 11:28-30 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue May 18 17:55:04 EDT 1999

 

Matt 11:28-30 Bad Greek {Kevin}>If CRHSTOS generally has the sense of that which is good, useful orserviceable, why do virtually all translations take it as “easy” here?Going back to Steve’s original question, it seems to me that translators are(properly) being influencedby ELAFRON, as Steve suspected, because the two terms are in a parallelconstruction. That is,For my yoke is CRHSTOSand my burden is ELAFRON.where the “yoke” and the “burden” are parallel, as are CRHSTOS and ELAFRON. Since ELAFRON means “light to bear, easy,” that adjective seems to havecolored the common translation of CRHSTOS in this verse.{Bill}The reasons I like “ergonomic” are:* we are talking about the *yoke* not the *burden*. The burden is light, butthe yoke is “well suited to the task.” It has the sense of “useful” but theusefulness is due to its suitability – like a “handy knife.”* a yoke interfaces a load with a yokee. It is most appreciated when it isform fitted and hence comfortable. It makes me think that the point Jesuswas making is:”My yoke is not the rigid, unsuitable yoke of the Pharisees – endless lawsand precepts that no one – not even themselves can bear. My yoke is thecustom made, personal, useful, practical, ergonomic yoke that enables you todo your work with “comfort and joy.”In Acts 15 we see that the acceptable yoke is the Gospel of the grace ofGod, apart from the works of the Law, for both the Jew and the Gentile:Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of thedisciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shallbe saved, even as they.* the word seems to be related to “hand” and “need” and “use” – so it iscalling attention to the functionality of the item – hence, the ergonomics.Bill Ross

 

Matt 11:28-30Bad Greek

Matt 11:28-30 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Tue May 18 17:55:04 EDT 1999

 

Matt 11:28-30 Bad Greek {Kevin}>If CRHSTOS generally has the sense of that which is good, useful orserviceable, why do virtually all translations take it as “easy” here?Going back to Steve’s original question, it seems to me that translators are(properly) being influencedby ELAFRON, as Steve suspected, because the two terms are in a parallelconstruction. That is,For my yoke is CRHSTOSand my burden is ELAFRON.where the “yoke” and the “burden” are parallel, as are CRHSTOS and ELAFRON. Since ELAFRON means “light to bear, easy,” that adjective seems to havecolored the common translation of CRHSTOS in this verse.{Bill}The reasons I like “ergonomic” are:* we are talking about the *yoke* not the *burden*. The burden is light, butthe yoke is “well suited to the task.” It has the sense of “useful” but theusefulness is due to its suitability – like a “handy knife.”* a yoke interfaces a load with a yokee. It is most appreciated when it isform fitted and hence comfortable. It makes me think that the point Jesuswas making is:”My yoke is not the rigid, unsuitable yoke of the Pharisees – endless lawsand precepts that no one – not even themselves can bear. My yoke is thecustom made, personal, useful, practical, ergonomic yoke that enables you todo your work with “comfort and joy.”In Acts 15 we see that the acceptable yoke is the Gospel of the grace ofGod, apart from the works of the Law, for both the Jew and the Gentile:Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of thedisciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shallbe saved, even as they.* the word seems to be related to “hand” and “need” and “use” – so it iscalling attention to the functionality of the item – hence, the ergonomics.Bill Ross

 

Matt 11:28-30Bad Greek

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