Revelation 17:7

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 John Calvin Hall johncalvinhall at gmail.com
Wed Jul 21 04:12:16 EDT 2010

 

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 …καὶ τοῦ θηρίου τοῦ βαστάζοντος αὐτήν….KAI TOU QHRIOU TOU BASTAZONTOS AUTHN… and the beast who is bearing her.Question: The use of the Greek participle in Rev 17:7, is it emphasizingthat the beast is willfully carrying the harlot?Thanks!– Respectfully,John Calvin HallTwin Falls, Idaho 83301johncalvinhall at gmail.com

 

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 21 05:39:27 EDT 2010

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 I don’t see any determination from the language itself that it is either willful or non-willful.  It is simply a fact.  I would suppose it to be understood as willing from the context of the narrative that it is willing, but I don’t suppose that it is a factor of the language itself.  Note the use of the verb βαστάζω in Re 2 in the sense of “to endure.” georgegfsomsel … search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the truth till death.- Jan Hus_________ ________________________________From: John Calvin Hall <johncalvinhall at gmail.com>To: at lists.ibiblio.orgSent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:12:16 AMSubject: [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7…καὶ τοῦ θηρίου τοῦ βαστάζοντος αὐτήν….KAI TOU QHRIOU TOU BASTAZONTOS AUTHN… and the beast who is bearing her.Question:  The use of the Greek participle in Rev 17:7, is it emphasizingthat the beast is willfully carrying the harlot?Thanks!– Respectfully,John Calvin HallTwin Falls, Idaho  83301johncalvinhall at gmail.com— home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 John Calvin Hall johncalvinhall at gmail.com
Wed Jul 21 05:44:50 EDT 2010

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 Ah!Now, the question begs… What is the difference between BASTAZW andhUPOMENW?Excellent post. Thank you!On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:39 AM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:> I don’t see any determination from the language itself that it is either> willful or non-willful. It is simply a fact. I would suppose it to> be understood as willing from the context of the narrative that it is> willing, but I don’t suppose that it is a factor of the language itself.> Note the use of the verb βαστάζω in Re 2 in the sense of “to endure.”> >Respectfully,John Calvin HallTwin Falls, Idaho 83301johncalvinhall at gmail.com

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Jul 21 05:58:40 EDT 2010

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 On Jul 21, 2010, at 5:44 AM, John Calvin Hall wrote:> Ah!> > Now, the question begs… What is the difference between BASTAZW and> hUPOMENW?> > Excellent post. Thank you!You really ought to consult a lexicon to answer that sort of question.BASTAZW means “hold up” or “carry”, while hUPOMENW means “withstand” or “endure” or “stay the course.”But BDAG, s.v. BASTAZW 2.b.β. “be able to bear up under especially trying or oppressive circumstances bear, endure” We speak sometimes of being able to “carry the load” or “bear the burden.> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:39 AM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:> >> I don’t see any determination from the language itself that it is either>> willful or non-willful. It is simply a fact. I would suppose it to>> be understood as willing from the context of the narrative that it is>> willing, but I don’t suppose that it is a factor of the language itself.>> Note the use of the verb βαστάζω in Re 2 in the sense of “to endure.”Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 21 06:09:25 EDT 2010

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7 [] hUPOMONH and hWDE in REV (Was: The Use of the GreekParticiple in Rev 17:7) Ὑπομονή hUPOMONH is generally rendered by “endure” in most English translations.  This is the sense that it seems to have in the rest of the NT, but I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding to render it as such in the Apocalypse.  Note its usage in Re 1310 εἴ τις εἰς αἰχμαλωσίαν, εἰς αἰχμαλωσίαν ὑπάγει·εἴ τις ἐν μαχαίρῃ ἀποκτανθῆναι αὐτὸν ἐν μαχαίρῃ ἀποκτανθῆναι. ῟Ωδέ ἐστιν ἡ ὑπομονὴ καὶ ἡ πίστις τῶν ἁγίων. EI TIS EIS AIXMALWSIAN, EIS AIXMALWSIAN hUPAGEI;EI TIS EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI AUTON EN MAXAIRHi APOKTANQHNAI. hWDE ESTIN hH hUPOMONH KAI hH PISTIS TWN hAGIWN.  To understand it there as “endurance” is to make complete nonsense of the passage.  To avoid such nonsense the RSV and NRSV have rendered it as “Here is a call for endurance….” when there is no call for anything indicated in the text.  It rather simply posits its existence.  I think BDAG’s second sense of the word is more appropriate in the Apocalypse — “expectation.”  What is there being stated then is that the expectation of the Church is that one’s “fate” is determined and will be effected.  It approaches the sense of “creed.”georgegfsomsel … search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the truth till death.- Jan Hus_________ ________________________________From: John Calvin Hall <johncalvinhall at gmail.com>To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>Cc: at lists.ibiblio.orgSent: Wed, July 21, 2010 2:44:50 AMSubject: Re: [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7Ah!Now, the question begs…  What is the difference between BASTAZW and hUPOMENW?Excellent post.  Thank you!On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:39 AM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:I don’t see any determination from the language itself that it is either willful or non-willful.  It is simply a fact.  I would suppose it to be understood as willing from the context of the narrative that it is willing, but I don’t suppose that it is a factor of the language itself.  Note the use of the verb βαστάζω in Re 2 in the sense of “to endure.”>Respectfully,John Calvin HallTwin Falls, Idaho  83301johncalvinhall at gmail.com

 

[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7[] hUPOMONH and hWDE in REV (Was: The Use of the GreekParticiple in Rev 17:7)

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