1 Corinthians 7:10

1 Cor 7:10, leave or be left Rion K. Reece yoshua at tky2.3web.ne.jp
Wed Oct 6 22:27:38 EDT 1999

KATA PANTA, DIA PANTA Luther on Translation Hello,My name is Rion K. Reece. I live and work (teaching English and Bible)in Tokyo Japan. I have been lurking for nigh on a year now, and this ismy first post. I am, in the parlance of the group, a “wee Greeker,”so please be patient with my questions.In 1 Corinthians 7:10b I read, GUNAIKA APO ANDROS MH XWORISQHNAI thisverb is in the passive voice; why is it not, “a wife must not bedivorced by/from her husband”?Also, the accusative and genitive combination is a little strange to me. Is the case of ANDROS simply being controlled by the APO?Likewise, in 7:11 EAN DE KAI XWRISQHi…Once again a passive. Why isthis not “but if (she) is divorced (by her husband)”?My thanks to all.RionRion K. Reeceyoshua at tky2.3web.ne.jp

KATA PANTA, DIA PANTALuther on Translation

1 Cor 7:10, leave or be left Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Oct 7 06:22:17 EDT 1999

Luther on Translation Titus 2:2 (correction) At 11:27 AM +0900 10/7/99, Rion K. Reece wrote:>Hello,> >My name is Rion K. Reece. I live and work (teaching English and Bible)>in Tokyo Japan. I have been lurking for nigh on a year now, and this is>my first post. I am, in the parlance of the group, a $B!H(Bwee>Greeker,$B!I(B>so please be patient with my questions.> >In 1 Corinthians 7:10b I read, GUNAIKA APO ANDROS MH XWRISQHNAI this>verb is in the passive voice; why is it not, $B!H(Ba wife must not be>divorced by/from her husband$B!I(B?> >Also, the accusative and genitive combination is a little strange to me.> Is the case of ANDROS simply being controlled by the APO?> >Likewise, in 7:11 EAN DE KAI XWRISQHi$B!D(BOnce again a passive. Why is>this not $B!H(Bbut if (she) is divorced (by her husband)$B!I(B?You have some characters in your message ($B!H) which don’t translate inmy mailing program to something intelligible–it looks like quotation marksis what it might be, but it doesn’t translate into ordinary ASCII–maybeit’s curly quotes.As for the substance, yes, I think these infinitives CWRISQHNAI in theseverses are normally understood as passive infinitives although I personallythink it would be better to understand them as having a middle force (myview is that in verbs of this sort the -QH- forms have replaced the olderMiddle/Passive forms in the aorist and future)–so I think the sense is”get divorced” or “get oneself a divorce (from).” The APO + genitive inthese instances is NOT an agent construction (“by her husband” or “by hiswife”) but the regular usage of APO with genitive in the sense “from” or”away.” So I’d understand 1 Cor 10:7b as “a wife should not get herselfseparated from her husband” and similarly in 1 Cor 11. In sum, YES, thecase of ANDROS is governed by APO; the preposition APO never takes any caseOTHER than genitive.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityOne Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

Luther on TranslationTitus 2:2 (correction)

1Cor 7:10,11 Steve Amato samato at cfa.harvard.edu
Fri Oct 30 10:03:03 EST 1998

1 Thess 2:15 ENANTIWN; LS 1Cor 7:10,11 “To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must notseparate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried orelse be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce hiswife.” 1Cor 7:10,11 (NIV)I noticed that “separate” and “does” (same word) are both in the passive inthe greek, but translated active. Why? Doesn’t that affect theinterpretation?Steve Amatohttp://www.xensei.com/users/samato

1 Thess 2:15 ENANTIWN; LS1Cor 7:10,11

1Cor 7:10,11 clayton stirling bartholomew c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net
Fri Oct 30 12:01:12 EST 1998

1Cor 7:10,11 archives & RCL texts Steve Amato wrote:> > “To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not> separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or> else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his> wife.” 1Cor 7:10,11 (NIV)> > I noticed that “separate” and “does” (same word) are both in the passive in> the greek, but translated active. Why? Doesn’t that affect the> interpretation?> Steve,This is a case where the aorist passive of XWRIZW is used in both cases, onceas an infinitive and once as a subjunctive. If the verb were active then wewould expect to find an object. That is we would expect to find something thatthe wife was tearing apart. Since the verb is passive, the wife becomes thefocus of the activity even though she is the subject. So she is separated.The rendering of this in the active voice in English which is shared by NIV,NASB, and RSV is nothing more than translating a Greek idiom into an Englishidiom. It would be awkward and would not improve our understanding of thepassage to render it:”The wife should no be separated from . . .”If you check a lexicon or two you will find the gloss given for that passiveof XWRIZW is “to depart” or something like that.– Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

1Cor 7:10,11 archives & RCL texts

1Cor 7:10,11 Steve Amato samato at cfa.harvard.edu
Fri Oct 30 10:03:03 EST 1998

1 Thess 2:15 ENANTIWN; LS 1Cor 7:10,11 “To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must notseparate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried orelse be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce hiswife.” 1Cor 7:10,11 (NIV)I noticed that “separate” and “does” (same word) are both in the passive inthe greek, but translated active. Why? Doesn’t that affect theinterpretation?Steve Amatohttp://www.xensei.com/users/samato

1 Thess 2:15 ENANTIWN; LS1Cor 7:10,11

1Cor 7:10,11 clayton stirling bartholomew c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net
Fri Oct 30 12:01:12 EST 1998

1Cor 7:10,11 archives & RCL texts Steve Amato wrote:> > “To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not> separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or> else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his> wife.” 1Cor 7:10,11 (NIV)> > I noticed that “separate” and “does” (same word) are both in the passive in> the greek, but translated active. Why? Doesn’t that affect the> interpretation?> Steve,This is a case where the aorist passive of XWRIZW is used in both cases, onceas an infinitive and once as a subjunctive. If the verb were active then wewould expect to find an object. That is we would expect to find something thatthe wife was tearing apart. Since the verb is passive, the wife becomes thefocus of the activity even though she is the subject. So she is separated.The rendering of this in the active voice in English which is shared by NIV,NASB, and RSV is nothing more than translating a Greek idiom into an Englishidiom. It would be awkward and would not improve our understanding of thepassage to render it:”The wife should no be separated from . . .”If you check a lexicon or two you will find the gloss given for that passiveof XWRIZW is “to depart” or something like that.– Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

1Cor 7:10,11 archives & RCL texts