1 Cor 12:11 dbielby at juno.com dbielby at juno.com
Wed Oct 27 09:58:45 EDT 1999
word order 1 Cor 12:11 PANTA DE TAUTA ENERGEI TO HEN KAI TO AUTO PNEUMA DIAIROUN IDIA EKASTOKATHOS BOULETAIQuestion: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How dowe know BOULETAI is not referring to the ones receiving these thingsinstead of the one giving these things).Thanks.David A Bielby Vineyard Christian Fellowship Bloomington/NormalE-mail: dbielby at juno.com Phone:309-827-8292
word order1 Cor 12:11
1 Cor 12:11 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Oct 27 10:26:00 EDT 1999
1 Cor 12:11 Matt 11:25 etc… At 8:58 AM -0500 10/27/99, dbielby at juno.com wrote:>PANTA DE TAUTA ENERGEI TO hEN KAI TO AUTO PNEUMA DIAIROUN IDIAi hEKASTWi>KAQWS BOULETAII’ve corrected the transcription to reflect long vowels and iota subscriptsaccording to UBS4.>Question: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How do>we know BOULETAI is not referring to the ones receiving these things>instead of the one giving these things).The subject of ENERGEI is TO hEN KAI TO AUTO PNEUMA; DIAIROUN is a neuterptc. in agreement with that subject, and I can’t see how KAQWS BOULETAI,since it depends upon DIAIROUN, can refer to anything else. Hence: “It isone and the same spirit achieve all these effects, distributing themindividually to each as it (the spirit) wishes.” I can’t see here, at anyrate, any way of understanding that the individual referred to by hEKASTWihas any say in the matter of how the distribution is carried out; to conveythat sense, I think the text would need to be written … DIAIROUN IDIAiKAQWS hEKASTOS BOULETAI … (“distributing acording as each person wishes”).Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityOne Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
1 Cor 12:11Matt 11:25 etc…
1 Cor 12:11 Ben Crick ben.crick at argonet.co.uk
Wed Oct 27 13:12:34 EDT 1999
Matt 11:25 etc… 1 Cor 12:11 On Wed 27 Oct 1999 (08:58:45), dbielby at juno.com wrote:> Question: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How> do we know BOULETAI is not referring to the ones receiving these things> instead of the one giving these things). Dear David, If I may re-transliterate your citation: PANTA DE TAUTA – direct object ENERGEI – verb TO hEN KAI TO AUTO PNEUMA – subject DIAIROUN – participle modifying the Subject IDIAi hEKASTWi – indirect object KATHWS BOULETAI – adverbial clause modifying the Subject It does not seem likely that the phrase KAQWS BOULETAI should modify the Indirect Object. If hEKASTOS were intended as the subject of BOULETAI, then the construction would have to have been expanded to indicate this; e.g. DIAIROUN IDIAi hEKASTWi KAQWS *hEKASTOS* BOULETAI. The whole thrust of this chapter is that the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the matter of the distribution of the CARISMATA, and does what He wills, not what we might wish him to do. Desire earnestly the best gifts (verse 31); but be content with such things as you have (Philippians 4:11). ENERGEI refers back to QEOS hO ENERGWN in verse 6. Likewise PANTA DE TAUTA refers back to TA PANTA, and IDIAi hEKASTWi to EN PASIN in verse 6. The whole passage is a unity. IMHO… ERRWSQE Ben– Revd Ben Crick, BA CF <ben.crick at argonet.co.uk> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm
Matt 11:25 etc…1 Cor 12:11
1 Cor 12:11 Steven Craig Miller scmiller at www.plantnet.com
Wed Oct 27 13:38:45 EDT 1999
1 Cor 12:11 Matt 11:25 etc… To: David A Bielby,<< PANTA DE TAUTA ENERGEI TO hEN KAI TO AUTO PNEUMA DIAIROUN IDIAi hEKASTWi KAQWS BOULETAI Question: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How do we know BOULETAI is not referring to the ones receiving these things instead of the one giving these things). >>The grammatical reason is that the subjects of finite verbs are generally found in the nominative case and not in the dative case. If Paul had wanted to say something more about IDIAi hEKASTWi, one would expect that he would have used a dative participle. Or he could have introduced a new subject (in the nominative case). To construe this passage so that the subject of BOULETAI are those referred to in the dative phrase IDIAi hEKASTWi would be to make this passage a solecism.-Steven Craig MillerAlton, Illinois (USA)scmiller at www.plantnet.com”There are no ultimate sources of knowledge. Every source, every suggestion is welcome; and every source, every suggestion, is open to critical examination” (Karl Popper, “Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledge,” 1963:27).
1 Cor 12:11Matt 11:25 etc…
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Kevin Smith kevin at sats.edu.za
Fri Nov 19 04:09:18 EST 2004
[] Books for Sale [] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Hi everyone Can someone explain the use of the dative *feminine* singular here? ThanksKevin Dr Kevin SmithHead of AcademicsSA Theological Seminary Tel. +27 11 234-4440Fax +27 11 234-4445 Visit www.sats.edu.za <http://www.sats.edu.za/> the website of the SATheological Seminary and www.christianlounge.com<http://www.christianlounge.com/> for thousands of Christian resourcesand links
[] Books for Sale[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Nov 19 06:50:09 EST 2004
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 [] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 At 11:09 AM +0200 11/19/04, Kevin Smith wrote:>Hi everyone> >Can someone explain the use of the dative *feminine* singular here?Text: it always helps to have this before one’s eyes: PANTA DE TAUTAENERGEI TO hEN KAI TO AUTO PNEUMA DIAIROUN IDIAi hEKASTWi KAQWS BOULETAI.IDIAi functions here adverbially and could as well be tagged as anadverb–but in origin it is indeed a dative feminine singular adjectivegoverning an implicit noun, here probably DUNAMEI “capacity”, so that thetext means: meting out to each one in his own capacity as it (the spirit)wishes.”There are in fact several Greek adjectives in the dative or accusative of aparticular gender functioning as adverbs without an explicit noun in theexpression; it’s a fairly common linguistic phenomenon.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Sat Nov 20 20:02:37 EST 2004
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 [] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Dear Carl,>IDIAi functions here adverbially and could as well be tagged as an>adverb–but in origin it is indeed a dative feminine singular adjective>governing an implicit noun, here probably DUNAMEI “capacity”, so that the>text means: meting out to each one in his own capacity as it (the spirit)>wishes.”> >There are in fact several Greek adjectives in the dative or accusative of a>particular gender functioning as adverbs without an explicit noun in the>expression; it’s a fairly common linguistic phenomenon.HH: Is it possible that IDIAi could have its antecedent in FANERWSIS in 1 Cor 12:7? The noun is feminine singular, and “manifestation” is the general term of which the items in 12:8-10 are examples. Then 12:11 would sum up with a translation like: “All these things works one and the same Spirit, with his own [manifestation] distributing to each one, as He pleases.”Yours,Harold Holmyard>—> >Carl W. Conrad>Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)>1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243>cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/>—> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Nov 21 06:16:25 EST 2004
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 [] Mumpsimus and Sumpsimus At 7:02 PM -0600 11/20/04, Harold R. Holmyard III wrote:>Dear Carl,> >>IDIAi functions here adverbially and could as well be tagged as an>>adverb–but in origin it is indeed a dative feminine singular adjective>>governing an implicit noun, here probably DUNAMEI “capacity”, so that the>>text means: meting out to each one in his own capacity as it (the spirit)>>wishes.”>> >>There are in fact several Greek adjectives in the dative or accusative of a>>particular gender functioning as adverbs without an explicit noun in the>>expression; it’s a fairly common linguistic phenomenon.> > >HH: Is it possible that IDIAi could have its antecedent in FANERWSIS>in 1 Cor 12:7? The noun is feminine singular, and “manifestation” is>the general term of which the items in 12:8-10 are examples. Then>12:11 would sum up with a translation like: “All these things works>one and the same Spirit, with his own [manifestation] distributing to>each one, as He pleases.”I don’t really think so; in view of the fact that IDIAi … DHMOSIAi ….(or vice versa) is already a common adverbial antithesis in classical AtticGreek, I don’t think one needs to look four verses away for an applicablenoun in this instance.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11[] Mumpsimus and Sumpsimus