In 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant ξ.α. (Kees) Langeveld langeveld at solcon.nl
Mon Nov 5 13:24:22 εστ 2001
Constituent order Constituent order The frequent use of masculine nouns such as hEKASTOS, hEIS, hEAUTWi, ALLWi,διερμηνευθσ etc. in 1 Cor. 14:26-33, which deals with speaking in thechurchmeetings, together with the fact that in vers 34-35 women are said torefrain from speaking in the churchmeetings, provide a valid argument forthe thesis that in 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant or thought of. In otherwords, 1 Cor 14:34-35 provides a reason for taking those nouns asnon-generic, that is, as referring to men only.Carl ω. Conrad has given me his opinion on this matter. ι would like to hearother optinions and arguments.Regards,Kees Langeveld, Bennekom, Netherlands
Constituent orderConstituent order
In 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Nov 5 15:46:25 εστ 2001
forground & background, boundry markers -Longacre’sModel forground & background, boundry markers -Longacre’sModel At 7:24 πμ +0100 11/5/01, ξ.α. (Kees) Langeveld wrote:>The frequent use of masculine nouns such as hEKASTOS, hEIS, hEAUTWi, ALLWi,>διερμηνευθσ etc. in 1 Cor. 14:26-33, which deals with speaking in the>churchmeetings, together with the fact that in vers 34-35 women are said to>refrain from speaking in the churchmeetings, provide a valid argument for>the thesis that in 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant or thought of. In other>words, 1 Cor 14:34-35 provides a reason for taking those nouns as>non-generic, that is, as referring to men only.>Carl ω. Conrad has given me his opinion on this matter. ι would like to hear>other optinions and arguments.ι too welcome alternative opinions and arguments (so long as they stick towhat the Greek text is saying), but lest there be any question of what Iresponded, here it is:At 2:03 πμ -0500 11/3/01, Carl ω. Conrad wrote:> … ι would say>that all of these masculine pronouns (hEKASTOS, hEIS, hEAUTWi, ALLWi) and>even the noun διερμηνευθσ are generic–there is no reason to suppose that>any one of them can only refer to a male person.— Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)Most months: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu ορ cwconrad at ioa.comWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
forground & background, boundry markers -Longacre’sModelforground & background, boundry markers -Longacre’sModel
In 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant Mark Wilson emory2oo2 at hotmail.com
Mon Nov 5 22:06:12 εστ 2001
forground & background, boundry markers -Longacre’sModel Jerusalem location ξ.α. (Kees) Langeveld wrote:——> >The frequent use of masculine nouns such as hEKASTOS, hEIS, hEAUTWi, >ALLWi,> >διερμηνευθσ etc. in 1 Cor. 14:26-33, which deals with speaking in the> >churchmeetings, together with the fact that in vers 34-35 women are said >to> >refrain from speaking in the churchmeetings, provide a valid argument for> >the thesis that in 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant or thought of. In other> >words, 1 Cor 14:34-35 provides a reason for taking those nouns as> >non-generic, that is, as referring to men only.——α non-generic use of any noun can only be employed in anon-generic ξοντεχτ. The issue would be whether or not the writerhas developed a context wherein non-generic or generic usagescan function.If you hold to a non-generic use in vss 26-33, you would have todemonstrate that verses 34ff are a παρτ οφ that section.My thoughts,Mark Wilson_________________________________________________________________Get your φρεε download of μσν Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
forground & background, boundry markers -Longacre’sModelJerusalem location
Tue Nov 6 05:39:03 εστ 2001
ενδυω/ενδυομαι μιδδλε ανδ πασσιβε βοιξε ι think Carlton intended this for the list.>From: Clwinbery at aol.com>Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:43:50 εστ>Subject: Re: [] Re: In 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant>To: cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> >In a message dated 11/5/01 2:47:10 πμ Central Standard Time,>cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu writes:> >> At 7:24 πμ +0100 11/5/01, ξ.α. (Kees) Langeveld wrote:>> >The frequent use of masculine nouns such as hEKASTOS, hEIS, hEAUTWi,>ALLWi,>> >διερμηνευθσ etc. in 1 Cor. 14:26-33, which deals with speaking in the>> >churchmeetings, together with the fact that in vers 34-35 women are said>to>> >refrain from speaking in the churchmeetings, provide a valid argument for>> >the thesis that in 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant or thought of. In other>> >words, 1 Cor 14:34-35 provides a reason for taking those nouns as>> >non-generic, that is, as referring to men only.>> >Carl ω. Conrad has given me his opinion on this matter. ι would like to>> hear>> >other optinions and arguments.>> >> ι too welcome alternative opinions and arguments (so long as they stick to>> what the Greek text is saying), but lest there be any question of what ι>> responded, here it is:>> >> At 2:03 πμ -0500 11/3/01, Carl ω. Conrad wrote:>> > … ι would say>> >that all of these masculine pronouns (hEKASTOS, hEIS, hEAUTWi, ALLWi) and>> >even the noun διερμηνευθσ are generic–there is no reason to suppose that>> >any one of them can only refer to a male person.>> —>It seems very difficult for English students (especially American) to get a>feel for the Greek use of gender. If any pronoun, adjective, participle, etc.>might include a man, they used the masculine. The masculine gender by itself>in such words does not rule out women unless the context makes it clear that>only men were referred to. ι see nothing in the context of this passage that>rules out women, certainly not vss. 34-35. So, the feminine form of such>words generally ruled out men but the masculine does not rule out women.> >Carlton Winbery>Louisiana College>
ενδυω/ενδυομαιμιδδλε ανδ πασσιβε βοιξε
Tue Nov 6 08:27:24 εστ 2001
μιδδλε ανδ πασσιβε βοιξε forground & background, boundry markers-Longacre’sModel Another reply evidently meant for the list rather than for me.>From: “Ted Mann” <theomann at earthlink.net>>To: “Carl ω. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>>Subject: Re: [] Re: In 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant>Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:57:22 -0500> >Carlton Winbery wrote:>> >It seems very difficult for English students (especially American) to get>a>> >feel for the Greek use of gender. If any pronoun, adjective, participle,>etc.>> >might include a man, they used the masculine. The masculine gender by>itself>> >in such words does not rule out women unless the context makes it clear>that>> >only men were referred to. ι see nothing in the context of this passage>that>> >rules out women, certainly not vss. 34-35. So, the feminine form of such>> >words generally ruled out men but the masculine does not rule out women.>> >>> >Carlton Winbery>> >Louisiana College> >It seems to me the context of 1 Cor:14:34,35 may in fact rule out women in>vs. 26-33. It reads to me as though Paul is contrasting the roles of men>and women in the church. That is, when the church assembles, the men bring>psalms, teachings, etc., the (male) prophets speak, etc., but women, by>contrast (v.34), are to remain silent. Verse 37 then returns to the role of>men.> >Ted>Dr. Theodore η. Mann>theomann at earthlink.net
μιδδλε ανδ πασσιβε VOICEforground & background, boundry markers-Longacre’sModel
In 1 Cor 14:26-33 men are meant Mike Sangrey msangrey at BlueFeltHat.org
Tue Nov 6 12:51:02 εστ 2001
κυριω/καιροσ – Rom 12:11 Topic Prominence Marking: Jn 19b-27 On Tue, 2001-11-06 at 08:27, Dr. Theodore η. Mann wrote:> >> >It seems to me the context of 1 Cor:14:34,35 may in fact rule out women in> >vs. 26-33. It reads to me as though Paul is contrasting the roles of men> >and women in the church. That is, when the church assembles, the men bring> >psalms, teachings, etc., the (male) prophets speak, etc., but women, by> >contrast (v.34), are to remain silent. Verse 37 then returns to the role of> >men.> >φωιω: In everyone’s mix of explanations which must be offered in orderto fit this whole text together and thus form a cohesive argument, onemust explain the strong flip in emotion from 14:35 to 36. To me, vs 36reads like a strong reaction against a statement made by theCorinthians. If ι assume Paul is saying, “in your meetings, men shoulddo this, women should do that,” ι‘m left with the feeling that 36 comesout of nowhere. To get the effect read 26-35 in a calm voice out loudand then, with an angry voice, read 36-38. Notice how it just doesn’tflow. And also note that the emotion really is there (at least ι thinkit is) in the text itself.To that end, ι currently take 33b-35 as a quote from the letter fromCorinth to Paul. Paul reacts to that statement in 36-38. And this isconsistent with taking the masculines in 26-33a as generic as CarltonWinbery suggests.There’s many issues here. ι am only seeking to help people make aninformed evaluation though my information may be wrong. υμμβ (YourMileage May Vary).– Mike Sangreymsangrey at BlueFeltHat.orgLandisburg, Pa. “The first one last wins.” “α net of highly cohesive details reveals the truth.”
κυριω/καιροσ – Rom 12:11Topic Prominence Marking: Jn 19b-27
Link Hudson
When ir comes to women prophesying, Paul mentions that in I Corinthians 11. Acts mentions it–your sons and daughters shall propesy: Philip’s daughters prophesied.
Paul seems to indicate the commandments of the Lord were in line with the practice of the Jerusalem church–what came the word out from among you or unto you only has it come. The Jerusalrem church allowed members of the congregation to speak and had prophets.
what ir or what if? There is no what if with Paul
Troy Day that “when ir” was “when it”
my gift of interpretation was NOT working then
Link Hudson when the Spirit of God speaks He makes no difference Have you not heard of the great prophecies come by the way of children?