[] 1 John 4:19 Andy Kaylor andy_kaylor at yahoo.com
Sat May 19 04:53:50 εδτ 2007
[] Gender [] 1 John 4:19
ι‘m a newbie working through 1 John, and tonight
ι was looking at 1 John 4:19hHMEIS
αγαπωμεν hOTI
αυτοσ πρωτοσ ηγαφσεν hHMASMy first thought was that
αγαπωμεν was subjunctive, so
ι Englished it as “Let us love,” then
ι saw that every translation
ι can find translates it as indicative, “We love.”But
αγαπωμεν could be subjunctive or indicative, right? So is it the presence of the (emphatic?) hHMEIS that should tell me this is indicative? Or is it context? Or is there another clue
ι‘ve missed?Thanks.Andy KaylorBeaverton, Oregon ____________________________________________________________________________________Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo!
τβ‘s Comedy with an Edge to see what’s on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
[] Gender[] 1 John 4:19
[] 1 John 4:19 kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Sat May 19 06:07:07 εδτ 2007
[] 1 John 4:19 [] Referent of
θν αυθν in Heb. 6:11
Hey Andy, if you look at
αγαπωμεν one more time closely you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and omicron, when they add the
πν endings change.So when the alpha contracts with the omicron, it changes to omega.
α +
ο =
ω.So basically you have
αγαπα +
ομεν =
αγαπωμεν–Kelton Graham KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net————– Original message ————– From: Andy Kaylor <andy_kaylor at yahoo.com> >
ι‘m a newbie working through 1 John, and tonight ι was looking at 1 John 4:19 >
>
hHMEIS αγαπωμεν hOTI αυτοσ πρωτοσ ηγαφσεν hHMAS >
>
My first thought was that αγαπωμεν was subjunctive, so ι Englished it as “Let us >
love,” then ι saw that every translation ι can find translates it as indicative, >
“We love.” >
>
But αγαπωμεν could be subjunctive or indicative, right? So is it the presence >
of the (emphatic?) hHMEIS that should tell me this is indicative? Or is it >
context? Or is there another clue ι‘ve missed? >
>
Thanks. >
>
Andy Kaylor >
Beaverton, Oregon >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________ >
____Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! τβ‘s >
Comedy with an Edge to see what’s on, when. >
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 >
— >
home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ >
mailing list >
at lists.ibiblio.org >
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] 1 John 4:19[] Referent of
θν αυθν in Heb. 6:11
[] 1 John 4:19: “αγαπωμεν” α. ψ. Birch a_j_birch at yahoo.es
Sat May 19 07:00:20 εδτ 2007
[] Referent of
θν αυθν in Heb. 6:11 [] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν”
Kelton
γ. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at
αγαπωμεν one more time closely you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and omicron, when they add the
πν endings change. So when the alpha contracts with the omicron, it changes to omega.
α +
ο =
ω. So basically you have
αγαπα +
ομεν =
αγαπωμεν…”But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).
ι think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: “
τεκνια“, “
αγαφτοι“, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Andrew
ψ. BirchPalma de Mallorca, Spain
[] Referent of
θν αυθν in Heb. 6:11[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν”
[] 1 John 4:19: “αγαπωμεν” Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 19 10:20:13 εδτ 2007
[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν” [] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν”
On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:00AM, “
α.
ψ. Birch” <a_j_birch at yahoo.es> wrote:>
Kelton γ. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at αγαπωμεν one more time closely >
you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that >
there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and >
omicron, when they add the πν endings change. So when the alpha contracts >
with the omicron, it changes to omega. α + ο = ω. So basically you have >
αγαπα + ομεν = αγαπωμεν…”> >
But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex >
accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).> >
ι think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and >
maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: >
“τεκνια“, “αγαφτοι“, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Reading the text carefully, it is pretty clear that
βοθ pronoun subjects in thesetwo clauses, hHMEIS and
αυτοσ, are emphatic:hHMEIS
αγαπωμεν hOTI
αυτοσ πρωτοσ ηγαφσεν hHMAS
ι think
αγαπωμεν very likely
ισ indicative here; the hOTI clause seemsto explain
ωηυ we do what we do; on the other hand, the verb mightwell have hortatory force if subjunctive: “Let us keep on loving … “Carl
ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville
, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν“[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν”
[] 1 John 4:19: “αγαπωμεν” Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 19 10:20:25 εδτ 2007
[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν” [] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν”
On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:00AM, “
α.
ψ. Birch” <a_j_birch at yahoo.es> wrote:>
Kelton γ. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at αγαπωμεν one more time closely >
you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that >
there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and >
omicron, when they add the πν endings change. So when the alpha contracts >
with the omicron, it changes to omega. α + ο = ω. So basically you have >
αγαπα + ομεν = αγαπωμεν…”> >
But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex >
accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).> >
ι think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and >
maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: >
“τεκνια“, “αγαφτοι“, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Reading the text carefully, it is pretty clear that
βοθ pronoun subjects in thesetwo clauses, hHMEIS and
αυτοσ, are emphatic:hHMEIS
αγαπωμεν hOTI
αυτοσ πρωτοσ ηγαφσεν hHMAS
ι think
αγαπωμεν very likely
ισ indicative here; the hOTI clause seemsto explain
ωηυ we do what we do; on the other hand, the verb mightwell have hortatory force if subjunctive: “Let us keep on loving … “Carl
ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville
, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν“[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν”
[] 1 John 4:19: “αγαπωμεν” Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 19 10:20:42 εδτ 2007
[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν” [] translating and grammatical analysis
On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:00AM, “
α.
ψ. Birch” <a_j_birch at yahoo.es> wrote:>
Kelton γ. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at αγαπωμεν one more time closely >
you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that >
there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and >
omicron, when they add the πν endings change. So when the alpha contracts >
with the omicron, it changes to omega. α + ο = ω. So basically you have >
αγαπα + ομεν = αγαπωμεν…”> >
But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex >
accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).> >
ι think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and >
maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: >
“τεκνια“, “αγαφτοι“, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Reading the text carefully, it is pretty clear that
βοθ pronoun subjects in thesetwo clauses, hHMEIS and
αυτοσ, are emphatic:hHMEIS
αγαπωμεν hOTI
αυτοσ πρωτοσ ηγαφσεν hHMAS
ι think
αγαπωμεν very likely
ισ indicative here; the hOTI clause seemsto explain
ωηυ we do what we do; on the other hand, the verb mightwell have hortatory force if subjunctive: “Let us keep on loving … “Carl
ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville
, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] 1 John 4:19: “
αγαπωμεν“[] translating and grammatical analysis