1 Peter 1:7

God’s glory and human glory Jim West jwest at highland.net
Sat May 15 14:33:28 EDT 1999

 

Jim West’s reply to – I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? God’s glory and human glory I stand by my previous note regarding the NT writer’s unwillingness to saythat God’s glory or honor is inherent in people. In contrast to the severalpassages you listed saying the contrary-mk 13:26, lk 2:9, 2:14, 2:32, 9:26, 9:31-32, 19:38, 21:27, 24:26, Jn 1:14and rom 3:23.in sum, the simple use of the word “glory” with a human object alwaysdescribes glory that is derivative or secondary to the essence of theperson- glory that is bestowed. it is God’s glory that is merely given topeople if they are at any point described as having it. the glory ofmankind is to the glory of God what the light of the moon is to the light ofthe sun. just as the moon merely reflects the light of the sun, and doesnot originate light from itself; so does humanity merely and simply reflectwhat it of itself does not possess.Best,Jim+++++++++++++++++++++++++Jim West, ThDemail- jwest at highland.netweb page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest

 

Jim West’s reply to – I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?God’s glory and human glory

God’s glory and human glory Jim West jwest at highland.net
Sat May 15 14:33:28 EDT 1999

 

Jim West’s reply to – I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? God’s glory and human glory I stand by my previous note regarding the NT writer’s unwillingness to saythat God’s glory or honor is inherent in people. In contrast to the severalpassages you listed saying the contrary-mk 13:26, lk 2:9, 2:14, 2:32, 9:26, 9:31-32, 19:38, 21:27, 24:26, Jn 1:14and rom 3:23.in sum, the simple use of the word “glory” with a human object alwaysdescribes glory that is derivative or secondary to the essence of theperson- glory that is bestowed. it is God’s glory that is merely given topeople if they are at any point described as having it. the glory ofmankind is to the glory of God what the light of the moon is to the light ofthe sun. just as the moon merely reflects the light of the sun, and doesnot originate light from itself; so does humanity merely and simply reflectwhat it of itself does not possess.Best,Jim+++++++++++++++++++++++++Jim West, ThDemail- jwest at highland.netweb page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest

 

Jim West’s reply to – I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?God’s glory and human glory
I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? CWestf5155 at aol.com CWestf5155 at aol.com
Fri May 14 10:13:36 EDT 1999

 

Acceptable Pseudonymity? I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS, IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOUI’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv. 4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?Cindy WestfallPhD Student, Roehampton

 

Acceptable Pseudonymity?I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? CWestf5155 at aol.com CWestf5155 at aol.com
Fri May 14 10:13:36 EDT 1999

 

Acceptable Pseudonymity? I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS, IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOUI’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv. 4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?Cindy WestfallPhD Student, Roehampton

 

Acceptable Pseudonymity?I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Jim West jwest at highland.net
Fri May 14 10:23:07 EDT 1999

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyond At 10:13 AM 5/14/99 -0400, you wrote:>Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS, >IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?Well, never would the NT writers say that people are worthy of praise andhonor (for theological reasons). So that narrows it down to Jesus or God.And since Jesus is described as the medium through which the manifestationof God is made clear, it is God himself who receives praise and glory forthat revelation.> >hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN >KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the >readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv. >4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. You are right to be unconvinced.>My objections stem from the fact that the >readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise >and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?There really are no alternatives which make sense of the clear meaning ofthe passage.Best,jim+++++++++++++++++++++++++Jim West, ThDemail- jwest at highland.netweb page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyond

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Jim West jwest at highland.net
Fri May 14 10:23:07 EDT 1999

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyond At 10:13 AM 5/14/99 -0400, you wrote:>Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS, >IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?Well, never would the NT writers say that people are worthy of praise andhonor (for theological reasons). So that narrows it down to Jesus or God.And since Jesus is described as the medium through which the manifestationof God is made clear, it is God himself who receives praise and glory forthat revelation.> >hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN >KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the >readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv. >4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. You are right to be unconvinced.>My objections stem from the fact that the >readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise >and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?There really are no alternatives which make sense of the clear meaning ofthe passage.Best,jim+++++++++++++++++++++++++Jim West, ThDemail- jwest at highland.netweb page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyond

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? kosala@md2 kosala at md2.vsnl.net.in
Fri May 14 13:06:43 EDT 1999

 

Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyond Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek Dear Cindy,In my opinion the Text is clear to assign the Praise, Glory and honor to the”TEST ED FAITH” , and not to any person , either God, Jesus Christ or thereaders.The text mentions the name of Jesus Christ in connection with the time ofthe revelation of the Praise etc.The Tested Faith here is the most important factor, even in the previousverses, because the context is Persecution.Hope this short message will be enough.Dr.Kishore KosalaIndia……..—–Original Message—–From: CWestf5155 at aol.com <CWestf5155 at aol.com>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Date: Friday, May 14, 1999 7:51 PMSubject: I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?>Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied toQEOS,>IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN>KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the>readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.>4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the>readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise>and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> >Cindy Westfall>PhD Student, Roehampton> >—> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/>You are currently subscribed to as: kosala at md2.vsnl.net.in>To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > >

 

Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyondUse of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? kosala@md2 kosala at md2.vsnl.net.in
Fri May 14 13:06:43 EDT 1999

 

Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyond Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek Dear Cindy,In my opinion the Text is clear to assign the Praise, Glory and honor to the”TEST ED FAITH” , and not to any person , either God, Jesus Christ or thereaders.The text mentions the name of Jesus Christ in connection with the time ofthe revelation of the Praise etc.The Tested Faith here is the most important factor, even in the previousverses, because the context is Persecution.Hope this short message will be enough.Dr.Kishore KosalaIndia……..—–Original Message—–From: CWestf5155 at aol.com <CWestf5155 at aol.com>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Date: Friday, May 14, 1999 7:51 PMSubject: I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?>Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied toQEOS,>IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN>KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the>readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.>4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the>readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise>and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> >Cindy Westfall>PhD Student, Roehampton> >—> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/>You are currently subscribed to as: kosala at md2.vsnl.net.in>To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > >

 

Word Order: Mark 3.1 and beyondUse of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? clayton stirling bartholomew c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net
Fri May 14 13:36:04 EDT 1999

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek > Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS,> IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN> KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> > I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the> readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.> 4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the> readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise> and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> > Cindy Westfall> PhD Student, RoehamptonCindy,After several readings of this passage and its context I detect acertain amount of ambiguity concerning the target of: EPAINON KAI DOXANKAI TIMHN. Keep in mind that Peter is describing the culmination of theprocess of salvation: 1:7 EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU and 1:5 EISSWTHRIAN hETIOMHN APOKALUFQHNAI EN KAIRWi ESCATWi. This is importantbecause it is not the saints in their present state that would be thetarget of EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN but the saints who have beenperfected by fire.J. Ramsy Michaels (1 Peter, WBC p.30) suggests that the ambiguity ofEUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN may be intentional. Michaelsgoes on to say that EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN is probably beingoffered on behalf of the saints who’s faith has been perfected bysuffering but that the same praise and honor and glory is give to IHSOUCRISTOS the author of their salvation. Michaels does not see it as aneither/or situation.I am recasting Michaels somewhat here so you will need to read him toget his exact argument.–Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year GreekUse of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? clayton stirling bartholomew c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net
Fri May 14 13:36:04 EDT 1999

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek > Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS,> IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN> KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> > I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the> readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.> 4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the> readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise> and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> > Cindy Westfall> PhD Student, RoehamptonCindy,After several readings of this passage and its context I detect acertain amount of ambiguity concerning the target of: EPAINON KAI DOXANKAI TIMHN. Keep in mind that Peter is describing the culmination of theprocess of salvation: 1:7 EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU and 1:5 EISSWTHRIAN hETIOMHN APOKALUFQHNAI EN KAIRWi ESCATWi. This is importantbecause it is not the saints in their present state that would be thetarget of EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN but the saints who have beenperfected by fire.J. Ramsy Michaels (1 Peter, WBC p.30) suggests that the ambiguity ofEUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN may be intentional. Michaelsgoes on to say that EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN is probably beingoffered on behalf of the saints who’s faith has been perfected bysuffering but that the same praise and honor and glory is give to IHSOUCRISTOS the author of their salvation. Michaels does not see it as aneither/or situation.I am recasting Michaels somewhat here so you will need to read him toget his exact argument.–Clayton Stirling BartholomewThree Tree PointP.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year GreekUse of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? John M. Sweigart jsweiger at cswnet.com
Fri May 14 14:58:12 EDT 1999

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? web page searching Dear Jim;Oh good. Allow me to totally disagree. Although I sent an answer to Cindy offlist after reflection I think that additional comment is required. The followingideas lead me to the opposite conclusion.1. The subject of the sentence is DOKAMION which although translated “genuiness”in some versions is to be translated “approved character” according to LSJ. Sothe issue under consideration is the “approved character” of the recipients faith.2. The NT is consistent in arguing that believers’ faith will be tested. James 1,Hebrews 11, etc. Consider the trials in verse 6.3. We are told in Romans 2:7 that believers are in pursuit of “glory, honor, andimmortality” based on their faithfulness in righteous living.4. The ideas of “living hope, inheritance, and salvation” are all futuristicconcepts to be dealt with at the return of the Lord Jesus. Consider the lastmember of verse 7.5. Indeed the word “salvation” in this context means the salvation of the soul inverse 9, understanding the Hebrew concept of the salvation of the earthly life asopposed to the metaphysical Greek idea. More than likely, the whole epistle is anexposition of Matthew 16:25-27 which was spoken to Peter personally.6. The verb hEURISKW in this verse is in the passive implying that the legalexamination of the “approved character of the audience’s faith” willl be conductedby Christ at His return.7. In the far context in 1 Peter 5:4 we are told that faithful elders will begranted a crown of glory.For the above reasons, I believe that any analysis that does not fully appreciatethe theme of faithfulness in suffering leading to future glory misses the emphasisof the epistle.John SweigartJim West wrote:> At 10:13 AM 5/14/99 -0400, you wrote:> >Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS,> >IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> > Well, never would the NT writers say that people are worthy of praise and> honor (for theological reasons). So that narrows it down to Jesus or God.> And since Jesus is described as the medium through which the manifestation> of God is made clear, it is God himself who receives praise and glory for> that revelation.> > >> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN> >KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >> >I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the> >readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.> >4-8. It’s unconvincing to me.> > You are right to be unconvinced.> > >My objections stem from the fact that the> >readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise> >and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> > There really are no alternatives which make sense of the clear meaning of> the passage.> > Best,> > jim> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++> Jim West, ThD> email- jwest at highland.net> web page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest> > —> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: jsweiger at cswnet.com> To unsubscribe, forward this message to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?web page searching

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? CWestf5155 at aol.com CWestf5155 at aol.com
Fri May 14 14:52:06 EDT 1999

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Clay,In a message dated 5/14/99 11:40:48 AM Mountain Daylight Time, c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net writes:> > Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to > QEOS,> > IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> >> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN> > KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >> > I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the> > readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.> > 4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the> > readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of > praise> > and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> > >> > Cindy Westfall> > PhD Student, Roehampton> > > Cindy,> > After several readings of this passage and its context I detect a> certain amount of ambiguity concerning the target of: EPAINON KAI DOXAN> KAI TIMHN. Keep in mind that Peter is describing the culmination of the> process of salvation: 1:7 EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU and 1:5 EIS> SWTHRIAN hETIOMHN APOKALUFQHNAI EN KAIRWi ESCATWi. This is important> because it is not the saints in their present state that would be the> target of EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN but the saints who have been> perfected by fire.> > J. Ramsy Michaels (1 Peter, WBC p.30) suggests that the ambiguity of> EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN may be intentional. Michaels> goes on to say that EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN is probably being> offered on behalf of the saints who’s faith has been perfected by> suffering but that the same praise and honor and glory is give to IHSOU> CRISTOS the author of their salvation. Michaels does not see it as an> either/or situation.> > I am recasting Michaels somewhat here so you will need to read him to> get his exact argument.> Yes, I think that the one thing that I am convinced of at this point is the ambiguity of the language. I was hoping that I was missing something! While my first reaction is that Jim is in the right of it this time because the context was already directling honor towards God, I realized that one could make a good case for alternate readings. Dr. Kosaba’s fourth alternative also seems possible.Thank you.Cindy Long WestfallPhD Student, Roehampton

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year GreekI Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? John M. Sweigart jsweiger at cswnet.com
Fri May 14 14:58:12 EDT 1999

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? web page searching Dear Jim;Oh good. Allow me to totally disagree. Although I sent an answer to Cindy offlist after reflection I think that additional comment is required. The followingideas lead me to the opposite conclusion.1. The subject of the sentence is DOKAMION which although translated “genuiness”in some versions is to be translated “approved character” according to LSJ. Sothe issue under consideration is the “approved character” of the recipients faith.2. The NT is consistent in arguing that believers’ faith will be tested. James 1,Hebrews 11, etc. Consider the trials in verse 6.3. We are told in Romans 2:7 that believers are in pursuit of “glory, honor, andimmortality” based on their faithfulness in righteous living.4. The ideas of “living hope, inheritance, and salvation” are all futuristicconcepts to be dealt with at the return of the Lord Jesus. Consider the lastmember of verse 7.5. Indeed the word “salvation” in this context means the salvation of the soul inverse 9, understanding the Hebrew concept of the salvation of the earthly life asopposed to the metaphysical Greek idea. More than likely, the whole epistle is anexposition of Matthew 16:25-27 which was spoken to Peter personally.6. The verb hEURISKW in this verse is in the passive implying that the legalexamination of the “approved character of the audience’s faith” willl be conductedby Christ at His return.7. In the far context in 1 Peter 5:4 we are told that faithful elders will begranted a crown of glory.For the above reasons, I believe that any analysis that does not fully appreciatethe theme of faithfulness in suffering leading to future glory misses the emphasisof the epistle.John SweigartJim West wrote:> At 10:13 AM 5/14/99 -0400, you wrote:> >Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to QEOS,> >IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> > Well, never would the NT writers say that people are worthy of praise and> honor (for theological reasons). So that narrows it down to Jesus or God.> And since Jesus is described as the medium through which the manifestation> of God is made clear, it is God himself who receives praise and glory for> that revelation.> > >> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN> >KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >> >I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the> >readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.> >4-8. It’s unconvincing to me.> > You are right to be unconvinced.> > >My objections stem from the fact that the> >readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of praise> >and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> > There really are no alternatives which make sense of the clear meaning of> the passage.> > Best,> > jim> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++> Jim West, ThD> email- jwest at highland.net> web page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest> > —> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: jsweiger at cswnet.com> To unsubscribe, forward this message to $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu

 

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?web page searching

I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? CWestf5155 at aol.com CWestf5155 at aol.com
Fri May 14 14:52:06 EDT 1999

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year Greek I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Clay,In a message dated 5/14/99 11:40:48 AM Mountain Daylight Time, c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net writes:> > Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied to > QEOS,> > IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?> >> > hINA TO DOKIMION hUMW’N THS PISTEWS…EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN> > KAI TIMHN EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU> >> > I’m reading an analysis that that seems to suggest that it applies to the> > readers’ eventual exoneration (honor) for the ‘achievements’ listed in vv.> > 4-8. It’s unconvincing to me. My objections stem from the fact that the> > readers are cast in 1:3-9 as beneficiaries, and God is the target of > praise> > and rejoicing. Can anyone offer further enlightenment for the alternatives?> > >> > Cindy Westfall> > PhD Student, Roehampton> > > Cindy,> > After several readings of this passage and its context I detect a> certain amount of ambiguity concerning the target of: EPAINON KAI DOXAN> KAI TIMHN. Keep in mind that Peter is describing the culmination of the> process of salvation: 1:7 EN APOKALUYEI IHSOU CRISTOU and 1:5 EIS> SWTHRIAN hETIOMHN APOKALUFQHNAI EN KAIRWi ESCATWi. This is important> because it is not the saints in their present state that would be the> target of EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN but the saints who have been> perfected by fire.> > J. Ramsy Michaels (1 Peter, WBC p.30) suggests that the ambiguity of> EUREQHi EIS EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN may be intentional. Michaels> goes on to say that EPAINON KAI DOXAN KAI TIMHN is probably being> offered on behalf of the saints who’s faith has been perfected by> suffering but that the same praise and honor and glory is give to IHSOU> CRISTOS the author of their salvation. Michaels does not see it as an> either/or situation.> > I am recasting Michaels somewhat here so you will need to read him to> get his exact argument.> Yes, I think that the one thing that I am convinced of at this point is the ambiguity of the language. I was hoping that I was missing something! While my first reaction is that Jim is in the right of it this time because the context was already directling honor towards God, I realized that one could make a good case for alternate readings. Dr. Kosaba’s fourth alternative also seems possible.Thank you.Cindy Long WestfallPhD Student, Roehampton

 

Use of Greek in Email and Chatrooms for Teaching 1st Year GreekI Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor?

Jim West’s reply to – I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Byron P. Knutson byronk at open.org
Sat May 15 13:33:45 EDT 1999

 

Advertising [was: web page searching God’s glory and human glory Cindy asked:>Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied toQEOS,>IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?To which Jim replied:”Well, never would the NT writers say that people are worthy of praise andhonor (for theological reasons). So that narrows it down to Jesus or God.And since Jesus is described as the medium through which the manifestationof God is made clear, it is God himself who receives praise and glory forthat revelation.”___ I think Jim over stated the case here. Just a few verses to illustrate:1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before thetime, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light thehidden things of darkness, and will make manifest thecounsels of the hearts: and then shall every man havePRAISE of God. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in amystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordainedbefore the world unto OUR GLORY:John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honourone of another, and seek not the HONOUR that comethFROM GOD only?Just food for thought.Respectfully,Byron Knutson

 

Advertising [was: web page searchingGod’s glory and human glory

Jim West’s reply to – I Peter 1:7: Whose Praise, Glory and Honor? Byron P. Knutson byronk at open.org
Sat May 15 13:33:45 EDT 1999

 

Advertising [was: web page searching God’s glory and human glory Cindy asked:>Is the praise, glory and honor mentioned in I Pet. 1:7 to be applied toQEOS,>IHSOU CRISTOU, or the readers themselves?To which Jim replied:”Well, never would the NT writers say that people are worthy of praise andhonor (for theological reasons). So that narrows it down to Jesus or God.And since Jesus is described as the medium through which the manifestationof God is made clear, it is God himself who receives praise and glory forthat revelation.”___ I think Jim over stated the case here. Just a few verses to illustrate:1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before thetime, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light thehidden things of darkness, and will make manifest thecounsels of the hearts: and then shall every man havePRAISE of God. 1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in amystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordainedbefore the world unto OUR GLORY:John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honourone of another, and seek not the HONOUR that comethFROM GOD only?Just food for thought.Respectfully,Byron Knutson

 

Advertising [was: web page searchingGod’s glory and human glory