1 Peter 3:21

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax Kimmo Huovila kimmo.huovila at helsinki.fi
Mon Jul 17 03:06:43 εδτ 2006

[] 2 Kings 5:18 in the Greek Septuagint [] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax What is the syntactic relationship between hO, αντιτυπον, and βαπτισμα in 1. Pet. 3:21?hO και hUMAS αντιτυπον νυν SWiZEI βαπτισμα, ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα.Kimmo Huovila

[] 2 Kings 5:18 in the Greek Septuagint[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax George φ Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 17 07:33:49 εδτ 2006

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax [] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax hO is a relative neuter πν and refers back to κιβωτου in the preceding verse βαπτισμα is the subject “which is a correspondent [αντιτυπον] to” κιβωτου. The comparison is thus made between baptism and entering into the ark. ___________ Kimmo Huovila <kimmo.huovila at helsinki.fi> wrote: What is the syntactic relationship between hO, αντιτυπον, and βαπτισμα in 1. Pet. 3:21?hO και hUMAS αντιτυπον νυν SWiZEI βαπτισμα, ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα.Kimmo Huovila— home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/georgegfsomsel_________ ———————————Yahoo! Music Unlimited – Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax

Mon Jul 17 08:33:34 εδτ 2006

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax [] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax Are you saying that βαπτισμα is the subject of SWiZEI and αντιτυπον is a predicate of βαπτισμα?The referent of hO is not so interesting at the moment as its syntactic relationship to αντιτυπον and βαπτισμα. (It more likely refers to the whole event of the preceding verse or water, as κιβωτοσ is feminine, but this is beside the question.)Kimmo HuovilaOn Monday July 17 2006 14:33, George φ Somsel wrote:> hO is a relative neuter πν and refers back to κιβωτου in the preceding verse βαπτισμα is the subject “which is a correspondent [αντιτυπον] to” κιβωτου. The comparison is thus made between baptism and entering into the ark.> > ___________> > > Kimmo Huovila <kimmo.huovila at helsinki.fi> wrote:> What is the syntactic relationship between hO, αντιτυπον, and βαπτισμα in> 1. Pet. 3:21?> > hO και hUMAS αντιτυπον νυν SWiZEI βαπτισμα, ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα > συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα.

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Jul 17 09:38:24 εδτ 2006

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax [] ετα/ητα and Southern Hemisphere English For my part, ι‘d esplain hO as relative pronoun (but with the entire notion of coming safely through the flood-waters by the ark as its antecedent) and also the subject of SWiZEI, and βαπτισμα as appositional to hO with αντιτυπον as predicative: “which now (baptism) brings you also safely through, as a corresponding item.”βδαγ has (s.v. αντιτυποσ):”In a compressed statement, with rescue through water as the dominant theme ὃ (i.e. hUDWR) και hUMAS αντιτυπον νυν SWiZEI βαπτισμα baptism correspondingly now saves you, i.e. the salvation of Noah and family via water (δι᾿ ὕδατος), which supported the ark, is the τύπος for the salutary function of the water {p. 91} of baptism 1 Pt 3:21. “But the text is certainly problematic, and we’ve had more than one interpretation of this text on (most recently, March 9-11, 2006: [] 1 Peter 3:20-21”). νετ has: “And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you …” and in the translator’s note, explains the Greek text as “which also, [as] an antitype, now saves you, [that is] baptism.”On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:33 αμ, Kimmo Huovila wrote:> Are you saying that βαπτισμα is the subject of SWiZEI and αντιτυπον > is a> predicate of βαπτισμα?> > The referent of hO is not so interesting at the moment as its > syntactic> relationship to αντιτυπον and βαπτισμα. (It more likely refers to > the whole> event of the preceding verse or water, as κιβωτοσ is feminine, but > this is> beside the question.)> > Kimmo Huovila> > On Monday July 17 2006 14:33, George φ Somsel wrote:>> hO is a relative neuter πν and refers back to κιβωτου in the >> preceding verse> βαπτισμα is the subject “which is a correspondent [αντιτυπον] to” > κιβωτου.> The comparison is thus made between baptism and entering into the ark.>> >> ___________>> >> >> Kimmo Huovila <kimmo.huovila at helsinki.fi> wrote:>> What is the syntactic relationship between hO, αντιτυπον, and >> βαπτισμα in>> 1. Pet. 3:21?>> >> hO και hUMAS αντιτυπον νυν SWiZEI βαπτισμα, ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ >> hRUPOU αλλα>> συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα.> —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] 1 Pet. 3:21 syntax[] ετα/ητα and Southern Hemisphere English

[] 1 Peter 3:21 Liz Winter ebwinter at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 3 14:22:39 εστ 2009

[] Titus 1:10-13 [] the rest of the question: 1 Peter 3:21 Hello, all. ι Peter 3:21 explains that baptism, prefigured by Noah and the flood, is “ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεον.” ι‘m struggling with the best translation of συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεον and confused by what ι‘m finding as ι research. κψβ: “the answer of a good conscience toward God.” νιβ: “the pledge of a good conscience towards God” (with a note offering “response” as an alternate translation of “pledge.”) εσβ: “the appeal to God for a good conscience.” As ι researched the definition of επερωθμα,

[] Titus 1:10-13[] the rest of the question: 1 Peter 3:21

[] the rest of the question: 1 Peter 3:21 Liz Winter ebwinter at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 3 14:23:52 εστ 2009

[] 1 Peter 3:21 [] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last Sorry about that. My computer likes to send messages while ι‘m still typing them. My full question — On Tue, 3/3/09, Liz Winter <ebwinter at yahoo.com> wrote:From: Liz Winter <ebwinter at yahoo.com>Subject: [] 1 Peter 3:21To: at lists.ibiblio.orgDate: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 1:22 PMHello, all. ι Peter 3:21 explains that baptism, prefigured by Noah and the flood, is”ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισθεον.” ι‘m struggling with the best translation of συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμαεισ θεον and confused by what ι‘m finding as ι research. κψβ: “theanswer of a good conscience toward God.” νιβ: “the pledge of a goodconscience towards God” (with a note offering “response” as analternate translation of “pledge.”) εσβ: “the appeal to God for agood conscience.” As ι researched the definition of επερωθμα, — home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] 1 Peter 3:21[] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last

[] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last Liz Winter ebwinter at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 3 14:34:30 εστ 2009

[] the rest of the question: 1 Peter 3:21 [] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last Hello, all. Please forgive my multiple messages. My computer and ι are not getting along. Here is my question: ι Peter 3:21 explains that baptism, prefigured by Noah and the flood, is “ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεον.” ι‘m struggling with the best translation of συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεον and confused by what ι‘m finding as ι research. Sample translations – κψβ: “the answer of a good conscience toward God.” νιβ: “the pledge of a good conscience towards God” (with a note offering “response” as an alternate translation of “pledge.”) εσβ: “the appeal to God for a good conscience.”  As ι researched the definition of επερωθμα, everything ι found was along the lines of questions, requests, appeals. My Liddell and Scott defines it as “a question.” ι didn’t find the term anywhere else in the ντ, so it’s hard to compare, but where επερωταω is used it seems to be consistently about asking, inquiring, demanding, νοτ answering, responding, pledging.  However, my ντ Greek lexicon gave “promise” as one of the definitions of επερωθμα and multiple translations have taken this route. The εσβ “appeal to God for a good conscience” makes most sense to me, but clearly not to many translators. What do you think? Best,  Liz— On Tue, 3/3/09, Liz Winter <ebwinter at yahoo.com> wrote:From: Liz Winter <ebwinter at yahoo.com>Subject: [] 1 Peter 3:21To: at lists.ibiblio.orgDate: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 1:22 PMHello, all. ι Peter 3:21 explains that baptism, prefigured by Noah and the flood, is”ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισθεον.” ι‘m struggling with the best translation of συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμαεισ θεον and confused by what ι‘m finding as ι research. κψβ: “theanswer of a good conscience toward God.” νιβ: “the pledge of a goodconscience towards God” (with a note offering “response” as analternate translation of “pledge.”) εσβ: “the appeal to God for agood conscience.” As ι researched the definition of επερωθμα, — home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] the rest of the question: 1 Peter 3:21[] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last

[] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Wed Mar 4 01:10:04 εστ 2009

[] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last [] Mounce/ββγ: Another correction? Hi, Liz,That is a very good question. As a (non-English) bible translator myself, ι don’t understand how theEnglish versions can all get it wrong. Already the κψβ had it wrong, so there must be a long historyof questionable theology and tradition at play. The Vulgate has interrogatio, but ι am not sure ofthe range of meanings of this word.The word επερωταω simply means to inquire, to ask a question, whether a real or rhetorical one.Occasionally it can mean to ask someone to do something. In that respect it is similar to theEnglish word ask. It does not refer to a demand, appeal or request (which is a demand rather than aquestion), and it certainly does not mean an answer or response or pledge.The noun επερωθμα is simply the question that is being asked. In 1 Pet 3:21 the content of thequestion is not given, but it seems fairly clear from context that the question Peter is answeringis “What is the meaning of baptism?” and probably also “How does one get a good conscience towardsGod (before God/in the eyes of God)?”He then says: ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεονδι‘ αναστασεωσ ιησου ξριστου.It (baptism) is not removal of dirt of/from the body, but it is a matter(question=point of issue) of a goodconscience towards God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.In my language, Danish, ι can use the word “question” here and it makes perfect sense, but the sameword does not work so well in English, although my English dictionary does give “a point at issue”as a sense of “question”.α proper translation is always a question of understanding the text properly in its context. ι hopeit is only a question of time before English versions are improved.In other words, baptism is connected to having a good conscience towards God, and that you get bybelieving in the resurrection of Jesus Christ (and what his death signifies.) It is difficult tosay more without running into theological controversies.Some more comments can be found in the archives for March 2002.Iver Larsen—– Original Message —– From: “Liz Winter” <ebwinter at yahoo.com>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: 3. marts 2009 22:34Subject: [] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last> Hello, all.> > Please forgive my multiple messages. My computer and ι are not getting along. Here is my question:> > ι Peter 3:21 explains that baptism, prefigured by Noah and the flood, is “ου σαρκοσ αποθεσισ> hRUPOU αλλα συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεον.”> > ι‘m struggling with the best translation of συνειδησεωσ αγαθησ επερωθμα εισ θεον and confused by> what ι‘m finding as ι research. Sample translations – κψβ: “the answer of a good conscience toward> God.” νιβ: “the pledge of a good conscience towards God” (with a note offering “response” as an> alternate translation of “pledge.”) εσβ: “the appeal to God for a good conscience.”> > As ι researched the definition of επερωθμα, everything ι found was along the lines of questions,> requests, appeals. My Liddell and Scott defines it as “a question.” ι didn’t find the term> anywhere else in the ντ, so it’s hard to compare, but where επερωταω is used it seems to be> consistently about asking, inquiring, demanding, νοτ answering, responding, pledging.> > However, my ντ Greek lexicon gave “promise” as one of the definitions of επερωθμα and multiple> translations have taken this route.> > The εσβ “appeal to God for a good conscience” makes most sense to me, but clearly not to many> translators. What do you think?> > Best,> > Liz

[] 1 Peter 3:21 – for real, finished, at last[] Mounce/ββγ: Another correction?