1 Thessalonians 5:23

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms? Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com
Sat Jun 19 05:43:54 εδτ 2010

[] αρνουμε [] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? 1 Thessalonians 5:23: hOLOKLHRON hUMWN το πνευμα και hH υυχ και το σωμα αμεμπτωσ … θῥθειη. Is there any grammatical objection to taking το πνευμα και hH υυχ above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–πνευμα, υυχ and σωμα–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms? There is biblical–and extra-biblical–warrant for taking these two words synonymously sometimes, e.g., Luke 1:47 (μεγαλυνει hH υυχ μου τον κυριον και ηγαλλιασεν το πνευμα μου επι TWi QEWi TWi σωθρι μου). Leonard Jayawardena _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful σπαμ protection.https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

[] αρνουμε[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms?

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? cwconrad2 cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Jun 19 06:45:28 εδτ 2010

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms? [] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Arethey synonyms? On 19 Jun, 2010,at 05:43 αμ, Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com> wrote:> > 1 Thessalonians 5:23:> > > hOLOKLHRON hUMWN το πνευμα και hH υυχ και το σωμα αμεμπτωσ … θῥθειη.> > > Is there any grammatical objection to taking το πνευμα και hH υυχ above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–πνευμα, υυχ and σωμα–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms?> > There is biblical–and extra-biblical–warrant for taking these two words synonymously sometimes, e.g., Luke 1:47 (μεγαλυνει hH υυχ μου τον κυριον και ηγαλλιασεν το πνευμα μου επι TWi QEWi TWi σωθρι μου).Well, it seems to me that, ιφ one thinks it proper to equate το πνευμα and hH υυχ here as synonymous, then there can hardlybe an objection to taking το σωμα as well as synonymous with the other two nouns — but ι doubt that anyone would think that tobe a reasonable equation.The parallel suggested in Luke 1:47 does not really apply because that’s a pattern of poetic parallelism either derived from or imitativeof λχχ style. On the other hand, ι rather think that Paul’s usage of πνευμα and υυχ does not equate them. ι think a more careful analysis of Pauline psychological and physiological terminology would be required to demonstrate any likelihood of your suggestion having validity. Probably that analysis has been done — perhaps more than once, ι‘d guess — and someone could point to therelevant authority or authorities. Bultmann had a chapter on Pauline psychology in his Theology of the ντ, but ι think that hisstudy has been faulted on one or more grounds.Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms?[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Arethey synonyms?

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Arethey synonyms? Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Sat Jun 19 08:34:05 εδτ 2010

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? [] μονογενησ in Psalm 24:16 (λχχ) Leonard ηρωτησε:<Is there any grammatical objection to taking το πνευμα και hH υυχ above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–πνευμα, υυχ and σωμα–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms?>Hi, Leonard,They are not synonyms for Paul. You have the Granville Sharp Rule, which would suggest that itthe article was not repeated before psyche then maybe they could be equated in some sense.But beyond that, a key point of 1 Cor 15 is to establish that the glorified σωμα that we getat Jesus’ coming ωιλλ be a σωμα but it will be a different kind of σωμα, and to make this pointPaul clearly distinguishes between πνευμα and psyche.v. 44 σπειρεται σωμα ψυχικον, εγειρεται σωμα πνευματικον. (σπειρεται σωμα υυξικον, εγειρεται σωμα πνευματικον) My old teacher at υ.ξ Santa Barbara wrote an extended treatment on thishttp://www.amazon.com/Pneumatikos-Psychikos-Terminology-Corinthians-Corinthian-Dissertation/dp/0889140324/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276948738&sr=1-10where he basically argues that Paul co-opts the proto-Gnostic term Psychikos to solve the problem ofmaintaining the traditional Jewish idea of the resurrection of the body while coming to terms withthe Late Greek/Gnostic dualism of spirit/body which was pervasive in Corinth and elsewhere. For Paul andfor the Gnostics, Pearson argues, psychikos is sort of a middle term between σωμα and pneuma.ι would call the phrase σωμα πνευματικον “Pauline eschatology in miniature.” ι agree with Carl that the parallel from Luke 1:47 comes from a different thought-world, namelya less dualistic (not to mention tripartite) Judaism which is closer to Homer than to Plato. Mark λφωσφοροσ MARKOS________________________________From: cwconrad2 <cwconrad2 at mac.com>To: Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com>Cc: at lists.ibiblio.orgSent: Sat, June 19, 2010 4:45:28 AMSubject: Re: [] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are they synonyms?On 19 Jun, 2010,at 05:43 αμ, Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com> wrote:> > 1 Thessalonians 5:23:> > > hOLOKLHRON hUMWN το πνευμα και hH υυχ και το σωμα αμεμπτωσ … θῥθειη.> > > Is there any grammatical objection to taking το πνευμα και hH υυχ above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–πνευμα, υυχ and σωμα–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms?> > There is biblical–and extra-biblical–warrant for taking these two words synonymously sometimes, e.g., Luke 1:47 (μεγαλυνει hH υυχ μου τον κυριον και ηγαλλιασεν το πνευμα μου επι TWi QEWi TWi σωθρι μου).Well, it seems to me that, ιφ one thinks it proper to equate το πνευμα and hH υυχ here as synonymous, then there can hardlybe an objection to taking το σωμα as well as synonymous with the other two nouns — but ι doubt that anyone would think that tobe a reasonable equation.The parallel suggested in Luke 1:47 does not really apply because that’s a pattern of poetic parallelism either derived from or imitativeof λχχ style. On the other hand, ι rather think that Paul’s usage of πνευμα and υυχ does not equate them. ι think a more careful analysis of Pauline psychological and physiological terminology would be required to demonstrate any likelihood of your suggestion having validity. Probably that analysis has been done — perhaps more than once, ι‘d guess — and someone could point to therelevant authority or authorities. Bultmann had a chapter on Pauline psychology in his Theology of the ντ, but ι think that hisstudy has been faulted on one or more grounds.Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)— home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] το πνευμα και hH υυχ in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms?[] μονογενησ in Psalm 24:16 (λχχ)

Author John Crowder has proposed a translation (or perhaps more a translation/paraphrase) of 1Thess5:23 as follows:

“And himself, the God of peace, is the one who sets all of you apart completely. Your whole spirit, soul and body is preserved blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will preserve you”

Do you think the Greek supports this translation? It seems to hinge on how one treats the aorist optative hAGIASAI (which from Wallace, ι believe is a voluntative optative – ι‘m an ντ Greek beginner), but ι am not sure whether it can be pressed this far. ι‘d appreciate any comments you may have.

Many thanks

Adrian Clark
To all:

1 Thess. 5:23

και hOLOKLHRON hUMWN το πνυεμα και hH υυκη και το σομα αμεμπτωσ…

Why does “spirit” “soul” and “body” appear in the singular when the writer is addressing a collective – hUMWN?

τ. Scott Lawson

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