1 Thessalonians 5:23

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms? Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com
Sat Jun 19 05:43:54 EDT 2010

[] ARNOUME [] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? 1 Thessalonians 5:23: hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS … THRHQEIH. Is there any grammatical objection to taking TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–PNEUMA, YUCH and SWMA–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms? There is biblical–and extra-biblical–warrant for taking these two words synonymously sometimes, e.g., Luke 1:47 (MEGALUNEI hH YUCH MOU TON KURION KAI HGALLIASEN TO PNEUMA MOU EPI TWi QEWi TWi SWTHRI MOU). Leonard Jayawardena _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

[] ARNOUME[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms?

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? cwconrad2 cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Jun 19 06:45:28 EDT 2010

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms? [] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Arethey synonyms? On 19 Jun, 2010,at 05:43 AM, Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com> wrote:> > 1 Thessalonians 5:23:> > > hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS … THRHQEIH.> > > Is there any grammatical objection to taking TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–PNEUMA, YUCH and SWMA–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms?> > There is biblical–and extra-biblical–warrant for taking these two words synonymously sometimes, e.g., Luke 1:47 (MEGALUNEI hH YUCH MOU TON KURION KAI HGALLIASEN TO PNEUMA MOU EPI TWi QEWi TWi SWTHRI MOU).Well, it seems to me that, IF one thinks it proper to equate TO PNEUMA and hH YUCH here as synonymous, then there can hardlybe an objection to taking TO SWMA as well as synonymous with the other two nouns — but I doubt that anyone would think that tobe a reasonable equation.The parallel suggested in Luke 1:47 does not really apply because that’s a pattern of poetic parallelism either derived from or imitativeof LXX style. On the other hand, I rather think that Paul’s usage of PNEUMA and YUCH does not equate them. I think a more careful analysis of Pauline psychological and physiological terminology would be required to demonstrate any likelihood of your suggestion having validity. Probably that analysis has been done — perhaps more than once, I’d guess — and someone could point to therelevant authority or authorities. Bultmann had a chapter on Pauline psychology in his Theology of the NT, but I think that hisstudy has been faulted on one or more grounds.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are theysynonyms?[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Arethey synonyms?

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Arethey synonyms? Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Sat Jun 19 08:34:05 EDT 2010

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms? [] MONOGENHS in Psalm 24:16 (LXX) Leonard ηρωτησε:<Is there any grammatical objection to taking TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–PNEUMA, YUCH and SWMA–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms?>Hi, Leonard,They are not synonyms for Paul. You have the Granville Sharp Rule, which would suggest that itthe article was not repeated before psyche then maybe they could be equated in some sense.But beyond that, a key point of 1 Cor 15 is to establish that the glorified SWMA that we getat Jesus’ coming WILL be a SWMA but it will be a different kind of SWMA, and to make this pointPaul clearly distinguishes between PNEUMA and psyche.v. 44 σπειρεται σωμα ψυχικον, εγειρεται σωμα πνευματικον. (SPEIRETAI SWMA YUCIKON, EGEIRETAI SWMA PNEUMATIKON) My old teacher at U.C Santa Barbara wrote an extended treatment on thishttp://www.amazon.com/Pneumatikos-Psychikos-Terminology-Corinthians-Corinthian-Dissertation/dp/0889140324/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276948738&sr=1-10where he basically argues that Paul co-opts the proto-Gnostic term Psychikos to solve the problem ofmaintaining the traditional Jewish idea of the resurrection of the body while coming to terms withthe Late Greek/Gnostic dualism of spirit/body which was pervasive in Corinth and elsewhere. For Paul andfor the Gnostics, Pearson argues, psychikos is sort of a middle term between SWMA and pneuma.I would call the phrase σωμα πνευματικον “Pauline eschatology in miniature.” I agree with Carl that the parallel from Luke 1:47 comes from a different thought-world, namelya less dualistic (not to mention tripartite) Judaism which is closer to Homer than to Plato. Mark LFWSFOROS MARKOS________________________________From: cwconrad2 <cwconrad2 at mac.com>To: Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com>Cc: at lists.ibiblio.orgSent: Sat, June 19, 2010 4:45:28 AMSubject: Re: [] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Are they synonyms?On 19 Jun, 2010,at 05:43 AM, Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com> wrote:> > 1 Thessalonians 5:23:> > > hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS … THRHQEIH.> > > Is there any grammatical objection to taking TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH above as synonyms? Specifically, does the presence of the article before each of the three words–PNEUMA, YUCH and SWMA–present an obstacle to taking the first two words as synonyms?> > There is biblical–and extra-biblical–warrant for taking these two words synonymously sometimes, e.g., Luke 1:47 (MEGALUNEI hH YUCH MOU TON KURION KAI HGALLIASEN TO PNEUMA MOU EPI TWi QEWi TWi SWTHRI MOU).Well, it seems to me that, IF one thinks it proper to equate TO PNEUMA and hH YUCH here as synonymous, then there can hardlybe an objection to taking TO SWMA as well as synonymous with the other two nouns — but I doubt that anyone would think that tobe a reasonable equation.The parallel suggested in Luke 1:47 does not really apply because that’s a pattern of poetic parallelism either derived from or imitativeof LXX style. On the other hand, I rather think that Paul’s usage of PNEUMA and YUCH does not equate them. I think a more careful analysis of Pauline psychological and physiological terminology would be required to demonstrate any likelihood of your suggestion having validity. Probably that analysis has been done — perhaps more than once, I’d guess — and someone could point to therelevant authority or authorities. Bultmann had a chapter on Pauline psychology in his Theology of the NT, but I think that hisstudy has been faulted on one or more grounds.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)— home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH in 1 Thessalonians 5:23–Aretheysynonyms?[] MONOGENHS in Psalm 24:16 (LXX)

Author John Crowder has proposed a translation (or perhaps more a translation/paraphrase) of 1Thess5:23 as follows:

“And himself, the God of peace, is the one who sets all of you apart completely. Your whole spirit, soul and body is preserved blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will preserve you”

Do you think the Greek supports this translation? It seems to hinge on how one treats the aorist optative hAGIASAI (which from Wallace, I believe is a voluntative optative – I’m an NT Greek beginner), but I am not sure whether it can be pressed this far. I’d appreciate any comments you may have.

Many thanks

Adrian Clark
To all:

1 Thess. 5:23

KAI hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNUEMA KAI hH YUKH KAI TO SOMA AMEMPTWS…

Why does “spirit” “soul” and “body” appear in the singular when the writer is addressing a collective – hUMWN?

T. Scott Lawson

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