Greetings,
2 Corinthians 13:5:
Εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει EAUTOUS PEIRAZETE EI ESTE EN TH PISTEI
Every translation I have access to online since my Bible Works has been down, translates this passage with something to the effect of “test yourselves to see if you are in the faith.” It seems to me that in this passage, you have a condition of the first class with the apodosis placed before the protasis. And the words “to see” are nowhere in the text. Might this be better translated simply as “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves?”
Thanks.
Robert Campanaro Coatesville, PA
I think it is significant that the verb here is πειράζω PEIRAZW “to test.” When combined with a clause beginning with εἰ EI it signifies that which one is seeking to discover — in this case εἰ ἐστὲ ἐν τῇ πίστει EI ESTE EN THi PISTEI which might be Englished as “whether you are in the faith.” As regards “to see”, this may not be in the actual text but, as that which one is seeking to discover, it is rather implicit since one tests in order to discover a result.
george gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the truth till death.
– Jan Hus _________
________________________________ href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 3:59:05 PM
Greetings,
2 Corinthians 13:5:
Εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει EAUTOUS PEIRAZETE EI ESTE EN TH PISTEI
Every translation I have access to online since my Bible Works has been down, translates this passage with something to the effect of “test yourselves to see if you are in the faith.” It seems to me that in this passage, you have a condition of the first class with the apodosis placed before the protasis. And the words “to see” are nowhere in the text. Might this be better translated simply as “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves?”
Thanks.
Robert Campanaro Coatesville, PA
Dear Robert,
εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει Looking at this as a first class condition with the apodosis being placed before the protasis, then we could certainly get the sense (as you put it): “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves.” If so, then in order for someone to test or examine himself he would first need to be in the faith. That is, being in the faith now becomes a condition for examining oneself. Looking at it this way, however, we run into two other issues: (a) ascertaining that this is the sense Paul intends to convey here, and (b) finding Paul’s reasoning for such a condition. (a) It would be difficult to wedge such a condition into Paul’s train of thought. Here Paul challenges the Corinthians, who seek proof that Jesus is speaking in him (v3), to see that his preaching to them was divinely authorized, hence, they now need to examine themselves (1 Cor. 11:28 δοκιμαζετω δε ανθρωπος εαυτον) to ascertain that they are in the faith—the test being whether or not they have received Paul’s preaching as being divinely authorized. (b) As for a reason for such a condition, we see none. Context and trend of thought signal that in v5 Paul admonishes the Corinthians to examine themselves (to see) if they were in the faith. Best regards, Philemon Zachariou
________________________________ href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Friday, May 6, 2011 3:59 PM
Greetings,
2 Corinthians 13:5:
Εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει EAUTOUS PEIRAZETE EI ESTE EN TH PISTEI
Every translation I have access to online since my Bible Works has been down, translates this passage with something to the effect of “test yourselves to see if you are in the faith.” It seems to me that in this passage, you have a condition of the first class with the apodosis placed before the protasis. And the words “to see” are nowhere in the text. Might this be better translated simply as “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves?”
Thanks.
Robert Campanaro Coatesville, PA
I think it is significant that the verb here is πειράζω PEIRAZW “to test.” When combined with a clause beginning with εἰ EI it signifies that which one is seeking to discover — in this case εἰ ἐστὲ ἐν τῇ πίστει EI ESTE EN THi PISTEI which might be Englished as “whether you are in the faith.” As regards “to see”, this may not be in the actual text but, as that which one is seeking to discover, it is rather implicit since one tests in order to discover a result.
george gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the truth till death.
– Jan Hus _________
________________________________ href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 3:59:05 PM
Greetings,
2 Corinthians 13:5:
Εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει EAUTOUS PEIRAZETE EI ESTE EN TH PISTEI
Every translation I have access to online since my Bible Works has been down, translates this passage with something to the effect of “test yourselves to see if you are in the faith.” It seems to me that in this passage, you have a condition of the first class with the apodosis placed before the protasis. And the words “to see” are nowhere in the text. Might this be better translated simply as “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves?”
Thanks.
Robert Campanaro Coatesville, PA
Dear Robert,
εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει Looking at this as a first class condition with the apodosis being placed before the protasis, then we could certainly get the sense (as you put it): “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves.” If so, then in order for someone to test or examine himself he would first need to be in the faith. That is, being in the faith now becomes a condition for examining oneself. Looking at it this way, however, we run into two other issues: (a) ascertaining that this is the sense Paul intends to convey here, and (b) finding Paul’s reasoning for such a condition. (a) It would be difficult to wedge such a condition into Paul’s train of thought. Here Paul challenges the Corinthians, who seek proof that Jesus is speaking in him (v3), to see that his preaching to them was divinely authorized, hence, they now need to examine themselves (1 Cor. 11:28 δοκιμαζετω δε ανθρωπος εαυτον) to ascertain that they are in the faith—the test being whether or not they have received Paul’s preaching as being divinely authorized. (b) As for a reason for such a condition, we see none. Context and trend of thought signal that in v5 Paul admonishes the Corinthians to examine themselves (to see) if they were in the faith. Best regards, Philemon Zachariou
________________________________ href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Friday, May 6, 2011 3:59 PM
Greetings,
2 Corinthians 13:5:
Εαυτους πειραζετε ει εστε εν τη πιστει EAUTOUS PEIRAZETE EI ESTE EN TH PISTEI
Every translation I have access to online since my Bible Works has been down, translates this passage with something to the effect of “test yourselves to see if you are in the faith.” It seems to me that in this passage, you have a condition of the first class with the apodosis placed before the protasis. And the words “to see” are nowhere in the text. Might this be better translated simply as “If you are in the faith, then test yourselves?”
Thanks.
Robert Campanaro Coatesville, PA