[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Jason Weaver jason_weaver at ntm.org
Mon Oct 11 09:35:28 EDT 2004
[] Question about lexicons and order of Indicatives [] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Message from Thomas Freeman – New Tribes Bible Institute This is my first submission to this list. I enjoy reading it often.My question concerns the text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13. The last part of theverse consists of the preposition ‘en’, an object modified by a genitive, a’kai’, and another object modified by a genitive. My first question is whether or not it’s possible that the seconddative (faith of the truth) must be seen as connected to ‘en’ or not? My second question is, if ‘en’ does distribute to the second dative,does the relationship between the preposition and the two objects need to bethe same? In other words if it is clear that ‘by sanctification of theSpirit’ is, let’s say, the means of God’s choice, must it follow that ‘faithof the truth’ also be means? Is it possible that one phrase gives a meansand the other a cause? Jason Weaver Teacher New Tribes Bible Institute
[] Question about lexicons and order of Indicatives [] 2 Thessalonians 2:13
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Arie Dirkzwager dirkzwager at pandora.be
Mon Oct 11 13:51:53 EDT 2004
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 [] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Jason,In my opinion PISTEI ALHQEIAS depends on EN too.In cases like this, where the preposition EN is not repeated before PISTEIALHQEIAS, there exists a strong tie between the first and the second dative.Of course the Spirit is responsible for both the hAGIASMOS and the PISTIS.And hAGIASMOS and PISTIS cannot be separated cfr. Rom 5 and 6.ArieDr. A. DirkzwagerHoeselt, Belgiume-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be—– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–Van: “Jason Weaver” <jason_weaver at ntm.org>Aan: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Verzonden: maandag 11 oktober 2004 15:35Onderwerp: [] 2 Thessalonians 2:13> Message from Thomas Freeman – New Tribes Bible Institute> > > This is my first submission to this list. I enjoy reading it often.> My question concerns the text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13. The last part ofthe> verse consists of the preposition ‘en’, an object modified by a genitive,a> ‘kai’, and another object modified by a genitive.> My first question is whether or not it’s possible that the second> dative (faith of the truth) must be seen as connected to ‘en’ or not?> My second question is, if ‘en’ does distribute to the second dative,> does the relationship between the preposition and the two objects need tobe> the same? In other words if it is clear that ‘by sanctification of the> Spirit’ is, let’s say, the means of God’s choice, must it follow that‘faith> of the truth’ also be means? Is it possible that one phrase gives a means> and the other a cause?> > Jason Weaver> Teacher> New Tribes Bible Institute> > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> >
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Oct 11 13:58:32 EDT 2004
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 [] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 At 9:35 AM -0400 10/11/04, Jason Weaver wrote:>Message from Thomas Freeman – New Tribes Bible Institute> > > This is my first submission to this list. I enjoy reading it often.>My question concerns the text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13. The last part of the>verse consists of the preposition ‘en’, an object modified by a genitive, a>‘kai’, and another object modified by a genitive.> My first question is whether or not it’s possible that the second>dative (faith of the truth) must be seen as connected to ‘en’ or not?> My second question is, if ‘en’ does distribute to the second dative,>does the relationship between the preposition and the two objects need to be>the same? In other words if it is clear that ‘by sanctification of the>Spirit’ is, let’s say, the means of God’s choice, must it follow that ‘faith>of the truth’ also be means? Is it possible that one phrase gives a means>and the other a cause?It helps to have the text in front of us: … hOTI hEILATO hUMAS hO QEOSAPARCHN EIS SWTHRIAN EN hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS KAI PISTEI ALHQEIAS.(1) Yes, I think that the EN must govern both dative + genitivephrases–both hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS and PISTEI ALHQEIAS.(2) It is certainly most probable that the same function of EN + dative isinvolved in both phrases and that the function is instrumental (“by meansof …”) in both instances.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Mon Oct 11 14:38:21 EDT 2004
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13 [] Grammatical determination Dear Jason and Thomas,>My question concerns the text of 2 Thessalonians 2:13. The last part of the>verse consists of the preposition ‘en’, an object modified by a genitive, a>‘kai’, and another object modified by a genitive.> My first question is whether or not it’s possible that the second>dative (faith of the truth) must be seen as connected to ‘en’ or not?> My second question is, if ‘en’ does distribute to the second dative,>does the relationship between the preposition and the two objects need to be>the same? In other words if it is clear that ‘by sanctification of the>Spirit’ is, let’s say, the means of God’s choice, must it follow that ‘faith>of the truth’ also be means? Is it possible that one phrase gives a means>and the other a cause?HH: My assumption would be that “faith” is also an object of EN. Otherwise the sentence would be confusing. I would also expect “sanctification” and “faith” to have a parallel function, probably means as you suggested.Yours,Harold Holmyard
[] 2 Thessalonians 2:13[] Grammatical determination
[] 2 Thess 2:13 Jason Kenney please_come_soon at yahoo.com
Sun Jun 7 22:25:53 EDT 2009
[] polycarp: chap.3-gen. absolutes refer to what [] 2 Thess 2:13 Crux sola nostra theologia
[] polycarp: chap.3-gen. absolutes refer to what[] 2 Thess 2:13
[] 2 Thess 2:13 Jason Kenney please_come_soon at yahoo.com
Sun Jun 7 22:33:41 EDT 2009
[] 2 Thess 2:13 [] 2 Thess 2:13 Hi all,My question has to do with the phrase “εις σωτηριαν εν αγιασμω πνευματος και πιστει αληθειας” in 2 Thess 2:13.I am having a hard time figuring out the logic of the ESV which renders it ” to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.”What grounds are there for making εις σωτηριαν so implicitly verbal? It looks like the translators there also see the second clause ( εν αγιασμω πνευματος και πιστει αληθειας) as modifying the “to be saved” as if it were the controlling verb.Can someone tell me what I am missing? I am not really interested in whether the ESV is correct in its rendering, I am just looking for guesses at their reasoning…Thanks so much!Jason Kenney
[] 2 Thess 2:13[] 2 Thess 2:13
[] 2 Thess 2:13 Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Tue Jun 9 01:12:38 EDT 2009
[] 2 Thess 2:13 [] Muraoka’s Updated Lexicon —– Original Message —– From: “Jason Kenney” <please_come_soon at yahoo.com>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: 8. juni 2009 05:33Subject: [] 2 Thess 2:13> Hi all,> My question has to do with the phrase “εις σωτηριαν εν αγιασμω πνευματος και > πιστει αληθειας” in 2 Thess 2:13.> I am having a hard time figuring out the logic of the ESV which renders it ” > to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.”> What grounds are there for making εις σωτηριαν so implicitly verbal? It looks > like the translators there also see the second clause ( εν αγιασμω πνευματος > και πιστει αληθειας) as modifying the “to be saved” as if it were the > controlling verb.> Can someone tell me what I am missing? I am not really interested in whether > the ESV is correct in its rendering, I am just looking for guesses at their > reasoning…> Thanks so much!> Jason Kenneyὅτι εἵλατο ὑμᾶς ὁ θεὸς ἀπαρχὴν εἰς σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ πίστει ἀληθείαςhOTI hEILATO hUMAS hO QEOS APARCHN EIS SWTHRIAN EN hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS KAI PISTEI ALHQEIASSWTHRIA is a verbal noun, and it is often necessary to translate a verbal noun by the corresponding verb in order not to lose the intended meaning, especially if the Greek construction is complex with many prepositions.The EN phrase you mention does semantically connect to SWTHRIA explaining the means by which salvation is obtained, and this is easier to see in English when a verb is used. An alternative if you want to keep the noun would be to explicate the verbal idea implied in EIS: “to receive salvation”.Although the ESV belongs to the category of literal translations, they apparently decided that keeping the Greek noun as a noun in English would not communicate the intended meaning clearly enough.Iver LarsenBible Translation Consultant
[] 2 Thess 2:13[] Muraoka’s Updated Lexicon
[] 2 Thess 2:13 Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Tue Jun 9 09:25:24 EDT 2009
[] I need help!!! [] I need help!!! Iver is exactly right. Lurking beneath your quesiton is the fact that inKoine nouns in the oblique cases are over-represented. I cannotthink of a different term. Often you get a string of nouns with prepositionsor in the bare genitive or dative, and if you don’t convert them intoverbs or adjectives, you wind up with under translated translationese.Note that in Homeric Greek on the one handand Modern Greek on the other hand on you wind up withmore adjectives and verbs and adverbs that essentially replace these stringsof nouns. Mark L. . — On Mon, 6/8/09, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>Subject: Re: [] 2 Thess 2:13To: “Jason Kenney” <please_come_soon at yahoo.com>, at lists.ibiblio.orgDate: Monday, June 8, 2009, 11:12 PM—– Original Message —– From: “Jason Kenney” <please_come_soon at yahoo.com>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: 8. juni 2009 05:33Subject: [] 2 Thess 2:13> Hi all,> My question has to do with the phrase “εις σωτηριαν εν αγιασμω πνευματος και > πιστει αληθειας” in 2 Thess 2:13.> I am having a hard time figuring out the logic of the ESV which renders it ” > to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.”> What grounds are there for making εις σωτηριαν so implicitly verbal? It looks > like the translators there also see the second clause ( εν αγιασμω πνευματος > και πιστει αληθειας) as modifying the “to be saved” as if it were the > controlling verb.> Can someone tell me what I am missing? I am not really interested in whether > the ESV is correct in its rendering, I am just looking for guesses at their > reasoning…> Thanks so much!> Jason Kenneyὅτι εἵλατο ὑμᾶς ὁ θεὸς ἀπαρχὴν εἰς σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ πίστει ἀληθείαςhOTI hEILATO hUMAS hO QEOS APARCHN EIS SWTHRIAN EN hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS KAI PISTEI ALHQEIASSWTHRIA is a verbal noun, and it is often necessary to translate a verbal noun by the corresponding verb in order not to lose the intended meaning, especially if the Greek construction is complex with many prepositions.The EN phrase you mention does semantically connect to SWTHRIA explaining the means by which salvation is obtained, and this is easier to see in English when a verb is used. An alternative if you want to keep the noun would be to explicate the verbal idea implied in EIS: “to receive salvation”.Although the ESV belongs to the category of literal translations, they apparently decided that keeping the Greek noun as a noun in English would not communicate the intended meaning clearly enough.Iver LarsenBible Translation Consultant — home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] I need help!!![] I need help!!!
[] 2 Thess 2:13 Brian Abasciano bvabasciano at gmail.com
Tue Jun 9 17:24:49 EDT 2009
[] Just A Test [] Galatians 1:6-7 I think it is probably overstated to say that it is often necessary totranlsate verbal nouns with the corresponding verb. More specifically, evenif that were true, it seems unecessary in this case. Plenty of translationstranslate SWTHRIA with “salvation” here. That is not to say, however, thatit is problematic to do so. That communicates the meaning fine. Yet again, Iwould favor translating a Greek verbal noun with the corresponding Englishverbal noun when possible.It is also possible to take the EN phrase with the main verb EILATO, whichwould probably be more natural all things being equal, and I would favor(more precisely, I would tend to take the EN phrase as modifying the wholephrase starting with EILATO, so of the idea of choosing as firstfruits forsalvation, with the idea of choosing as the head idea). But it seems mostcommentators don’t seem to go this way (and so perhaps all things are notequal in this case!). In my opinion, the verbal idea comes out perfectlyfine with translating EIS SWTHRIA as “for salvation”, as many translationsopt for. Well, there is a mix of actual Greek syntax comments andtranslation comments, and this thread is probably too much about translationfor . Keeping it on Greek syntax, there are various reasonableoptions for how to contrue the section of text you mentioned as outlined byIver and Mark and now me.God bless,Brian Abasciano**************Message: 14Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 08:12:38 +0300From: “Iver Larsen” <iver_larsen at sil.org>Subject: Re: [] 2 Thess 2:13To: “Jason Kenney” <please_come_soon at yahoo.com>,< at lists.ibiblio.org>Message-ID: <3DC0924A70B344B6A1F0CEA58856AA12 at iveracer>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=”utf-8″;reply-type=original—– Original Message —– From: “Jason Kenney” <please_come_soon at yahoo.com>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: 8. juni 2009 05:33Subject: [] 2 Thess 2:13> Hi all,> My question has to do with the phrase “??? ???????? ?? ??????? ????????? > ???> ?????? ????????” in 2 Thess 2:13.> I am having a hard time figuring out the logic of the ESV which renders it > “> to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the > truth.”> What grounds are there for making ??? ???????? so implicitly verbal? It > looks> like the translators there also see the second clause ( ?? ??????? > ?????????> ??? ?????? ????????) as modifying the “to be saved” as if it were the> controlling verb.> Can someone tell me what I am missing? I am not really interested in > whether> the ESV is correct in its rendering, I am just looking for guesses at > their> reasoning…> Thanks so much!> Jason Kenney??? ?????? ???? ? ???? ??????? ??? ???????? ?? ??????? ????????? ??? ??????????????hOTI hEILATO hUMAS hO QEOS APARCHN EIS SWTHRIAN EN hAGIASMWi PNEUMATOS KAIPISTEI ALHQEIASSWTHRIA is a verbal noun, and it is often necessary to translate a verbalnounby the corresponding verb in order not to lose the intended meaning,especiallyif the Greek construction is complex with many prepositions.The EN phrase you mention does semantically connect to SWTHRIA explainingthemeans by which salvation is obtained, and this is easier to see in Englishwhena verb is used. An alternative if you want to keep the noun would be toexplicate the verbal idea implied in EIS: “to receive salvation”.Although the ESV belongs to the category of literal translations, theyapparently decided that keeping the Greek noun as a noun in English wouldnotcommunicate the intended meaning clearly enough.Iver LarsenBible Translation Consultant***************Message: 18Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 06:25:24 -0700 (PDT)From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>Subject: Re: [] 2 Thess 2:13To: Jason Kenney <please_come_soon at yahoo.com>, at lists.ibiblio.org, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>Message-ID: <761510.29722.qm at web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8Iver is exactly right.? Lurking beneath?your quesiton is the fact?that inKoine nouns in the oblique cases are over-represented. I cannotthink of a?different term.? Often you get a string of nouns withprepositionsor in the bare genitive or dative, and if you don’t convert them intoverbs or adjectives, you wind up with under translated translationese.Note that??in Homeric Greek on the one handand Modern Greek on the other hand?on?you wind up withmore adjectives and verbs and adverbs?that essentially replace these stringsof nouns.?Mark L. .
[] Just A Test[] Galatians 1:6-7
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 In contrast to his indignation against those who oppose God and persecute his saints, Paul is bound to give thanks to God always for the Thessalonians. The believers in Thessalonica were brethren beloved by the Lord.
The reason for Paul’s thanksgiving is because God from the beginning chose you for salvation. The word chose (haireomai) is not the normal Greek word for election. The only two other occurrences of this word in the NT clearly do not refer to election to eternal life (Phil 1:22, “what I shall choose I cannot tell”; Heb 11:25, “choosing rather to suffer affliction”).
This is the only use of salvation (sœt¢ria) in this epistle. However, in 1 Thess 5:8-9 sœt¢ria clearly refers to salvation from the Tribulation. That fits the context as well. While it is true that Paul has just spoken of the eternal condemnation of the unbelievers who are persecuting the Thessalonians (v 12), the preceding context deals primarily with the fact that the unbelievers will go through the Tribulation.
This salvation requires two things. First, the Holy Spirit will set believers apart (sanctification by the Spirit). This likely refers to positional sanctification. That is the divine side of salvation from the Tribulation. The human side is belief in the truth. This is in contrast to v 12 with its reference to those “who did not believe the truth.” All who believe the truth will escape the Tribulation.
Believers were called to this sanctification by the apostle’s (our) gospel. The result was not only that believers escape the Tribulation, but positively for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. All believers will obtain some share in His glory. The degree to which believers will share in this glory depends on how they live their lives (cf. Matt 16:24-28; 1 Peter 4:13).
nice work – how do you see it related to pre-Trib rapture?
Verse 3-4
Paul explained that three events had to take place before the judgments of the day of the Lord began (i.e, the judgments of the Tribulation). These were the apostasy ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3), the unveiling of the man of lawlessness ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:8), and the removal of the restraint of lawlessness ( 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7). The apostle presented these in logical rather than chronological order in this passage. The word “first” refers to the fact that the apostasy will occur at the very beginning of the day of the Lord, and before the revelation of the man of sin. [Note: Thomas, pp320-21; idem, Evangelical Hermeneutics, pp72-75.]
One major event is the “apostasy” ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3, lit. the falling away). The English word “apostasy” is a transliteration of the Greek word apostasia. By definition an apostasy is a departure, an abandoning of a position formerly held (cf. Joshua 22:22 LXX Acts 21:21).
“In classical Greek the word apostasia denoted a political or military rebellion; but in the Greek Old Testament we find it used of rebellion against God (e.g. Jos. xxii22), and this becomes the accepted Biblical usage. Paul”s thought is that in the last times there will be an outstanding manifestation of the powers of evil arrayed against God.” [Note: Morris, The Epistles . . ., p126.]
It seems that Paul referred here to the departure from the Christian faith of professing (not genuine) Christians soon after the Rapture, at the beginning of the day of the Lord. This was not the same apostasy he and other apostles spoke of elsewhere when they warned of departure from the faith before the Rapture ( 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; James 5:1-8; 2 Peter 2; 2 Peter 3:3-6; Jude).
vv3-4 continued. Another major event, in addition to “the apostasy,” is the unveiling of “the man of lawlessness” ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). This is a person yet to appear who will be completely lawless and whom God will doom to everlasting destruction. The prophet Daniel spoke of such a person. He will make a covenant with the Jews but then break it after three and a half years ( Daniel 9:27). The breaking of that covenant seems to be the event that unmasks this individual for who he Isaiah , the opponent of Christ. He will eventually seek to make everyone worship himself and will claim to be God (cf. Revelation 13:5-8). The reference to him taking his seat in the temple of God ( 2 Thessalonians 2:4) may be figurative representing him as taking the highest position possible. More likely it is literal in which case the material temple of God that will stand in Jerusalem during the second half, at least, of the Tribulation is in view (cf. Daniel 11:36).
Verse 6
When he was with them Paul had told the Thessalonians what was restraining the unveiling of the man of lawlessness (i.e, Antichrist, 2 Thessalonians 2:3; cf. 1 John 2:18). However, he did not restate the identity of the restrainer here. Nevertheless it seems that the Holy Spirit is the restraining influence in view…..”One of the distinctive features of the dispensation of grace in contrast to prior periods is the fact that the Holy Spirit indwells everyone who is regenerated. In the coming period of the kingdom on earth this divine blessing will also be a prominent feature and everyone who is saved will be indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
“There is little evidence that believers will be indwelt by the Spirit during the tribulation. The possibility of a universal indwelling of all believers in the tribulation is opposed by the revelation of 2 Thessalonians 2:7, that the one restraining the world from sin, i.e, the Holy Spirit, will be “taken out of the way” during the tribulation. Unrestrained evil characterizes the tribulation, though the lack of restraint is not total (cf. Revelation 7:2; Revelation 12:6; Revelation 12:14-16). The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in the saints in itself would contribute to the restraint of sin, and it, therefore, is taken away. The tribulation period, also, seems to revert back to Old Testament conditions in several ways; and in the Old Testament period, saints were never permanently indwelt except in isolated instances, though a number of instances of the filling of the Spirit and of empowerment for service are found. Taking all the factors into consideration, there is no evidence for the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in believers in the tribulation.” ……..Verses 6-12
B. The mystery of lawlessness2:6-12
Paul continued his instruction concerning the events that must take place at the beginning of the day of the Lord and stressed the lawlessness of that period. His purpose was to explain more clearly that his readers had not missed the Rapture and had not entered the eschatological day of the Lord.
Verse 7
The “mystery” (truth previously not revealed but now made known) Paul referred to here is the revelation of a future climax of lawlessness that would follow the removal of the restrainer. This lawless movement was already underway in Paul”s day, but God was holding it back until His appointed time. Then He will remove the restraining influence. This removal is probably a reference to the Rapture when God”s restraint of evil through His people will end as He removes them from the earth. God will remove the Holy Spirit from the earth in the sense that God will remove those whom He indwells and He with them. He will not entirely abandon the earth, of course, since God is omnipresent. ……1 Corinthians 12:13 where Paul said the baptizing ministry of the Holy Spirit places believers into the “one body” of Christ. The body of Christ is a term that always describes the church that began on the day of Pentecost and goes to heaven at the Rapture. For the Christian, Spirit indwelling takes place at the same time as Spirit baptism, namely, the time of regeneration. Since people whom God will justify during the Tribulation will not experience baptism into the body of Christ, it is unwarranted to assume that the Spirit will also permanently indwell them. The “body of Christ” will be in heaven rather than on earth then.
“Since the removal of the Restrainer takes place before the manifestation of the lawless one, this identification implies a pretribulational rapture.”
Verse 8
After the Rapture the lawless one will have greater freedom. He will do things that will eventually result in his being identified as the Antichrist. However the mere breath of the Lord Jesus” mouth will slay him when Christ comes with His saints at the Second Coming ( 2 Thessalonians 1:10). The Lord”s “appearance” (Gr. epiphaneia) is a different and later event in His “coming” (Gr. parousia) than the “gathering” (Gr. episynagoges) event ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1). The first event is the Rapture, and the second is the Second Coming.
Verse 9-10
The lawless one will be Satan”s instrument. Scripture also calls him the beast coming out of the sea ( Revelation 13:1-10), the scarlet beast ( Revelation 17:3), and simply the beast ( Revelation 17:8; Revelation 17:16; Revelation 19:19-20; Revelation 20:10). Satan will empower him to deceive many people into thinking he is God by doing awe-inspiring, powerful miracles (cf. Revelation 13:2-4; Revelation 17:8).
“The use of parousia here probably suggests a parody of Christ”s Parousia ( 2 Thessalonians 2:8).”
Verse 11-12
Thousands of people, but only a small proportion of the entire population, will place their faith in Jesus Christ during the Tribulation ( Revelation 6:9-11; Revelation 7:4; Revelation 7:9-17; et al.). Some interpreters have concluded from these verses ( 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12) that no one who has heard the gospel and rejected it before the Rapture will be able to be saved during the Tribulation. This view rests on taking the antecedents of “them” and “they” as being “those who perish” ( 2 Thessalonians 2:10) and interpreting “those who perish” as those who heard but rejected the gospel before the Rapture. However it seems more likely that 2 Thessalonians 2:10 describes all unbelievers in the Tribulation, not just those who heard and rejected the gospel before the Rapture. Satan”s power, signs, wonders, and evil deception ( 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10) will impress all people living on the earth during the Tribulation. Paul could say that those people do not receive “the love of the truth so as to be saved” ( 2 Thessalonians 2:10) and they “did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness” ( 2 Thessalonians 2:12). He could do so since these phrases describe all unbelievers, not just those who hear the gospel and willfully rejected it before the Rapture (cf. John 3:19, Romans 1:24-32). ……..If Paul wanted to correct the Thessalonians” erroneous conclusion that they were in the day of the Lord, why did he not just tell them that the Rapture had not yet taken place? Evidently he did not do so because he wanted to reemphasize the order of events resulting in the culmination and destruction of lawlessness in the world. Lawlessness was their concern.
Paul”s readers could, therefore, be confident that the day of the Lord had not yet begun. The tribulations they were experiencing were not those of the day of the Lord about which Paul had taught them while he was with them. Furthermore three prerequisite events had not yet taken place. These were the departure from the Word of God by many ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3), the removal of the restrainer at the Rapture ( 2 Thessalonians 2:7), and the revelation of the man of lawlessness, Antichrist ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). This is the chronological order of these events. [Note: For a helpful summary of posttribulational interpretations of these verses, see John F. Walvoord, The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation, chapter10: “Is the Tribulation Before the Rapture in2Thessalonians?”]
chapter10: “Is the Tribulation Before the Rapture in2Thessalonians?”] – NO 🙂