I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 Ilvgrammta at aol.com Ilvgrammta at aol.com
Thu Dec 16 13:18:40 EST 1999
Colossians 1:21-23 Philippians 4:3-4 hWN TA ONOMATA EN BIBLW ZWHS In a message dated 99-12-16 12:14:31 EST, Lynn R-C writes:<< John 3:2 has a third class conditional clause which most translations render “when.” The only exception I found on my Logos software was the American Standard Version. I used the same software to search the N.T., in the NASV. I found I John, 3:2 and 2:28 to be the only two times in which “ean” was rendered “when.” Is there any grammatical reason why so many translations give “ean” the meaning “when” ? Or, might their reasons be theological? Thank you in advance, Lynn R.-C. >>Dear Lynn,Robert A. Young has the following:”EAN can be used as a temporal conjunction to convey a future event that is contemporaneous with another future event. 1 John 3:2 (We know that when [EAN] he appears, we shall be like him; cf. John 12:32; Heb. 3:7; 1 John 2:28)” (Young, p. 184).While I agree with Young about the rendering of EAN in 1 John 2:28; 3:2, I really do not think his examples are very helpful here. Note especially Heb. 3:7. Another comment is given by Steven. M. Baugh in his First John Reader:”Normally, EAN introduces a condition in the future: EAN FANERWQHi, “If he should appear.” In this verse, however, John is not expressing doubt as to whether the Lord will appear. In the common use of Greek (found also in the LXX), EAN doubled in function with the indefinite temporal marker hOTAN, “whenever” or “when,” as here and in 3:2. The phrase should then be translated “when he appears.” Remember that a subjunctive phrase does not necessarily communicate doubt about the fulfillment of an event, but that the author does not know precisely when it will happen” (p. 42).I hope this helps,Edgar Foster
Colossians 1:21-23Philippians 4:3-4 hWN TA ONOMATA EN BIBLW ZWHS
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 Ilvgrammta at aol.com Ilvgrammta at aol.com
Thu Dec 16 13:18:40 EST 1999
Colossians 1:21-23 Philippians 4:3-4 hWN TA ONOMATA EN BIBLW ZWHS In a message dated 99-12-16 12:14:31 EST, Lynn R-C writes:<< John 3:2 has a third class conditional clause which most translations render “when.” The only exception I found on my Logos software was the American Standard Version. I used the same software to search the N.T., in the NASV. I found I John, 3:2 and 2:28 to be the only two times in which “ean” was rendered “when.” Is there any grammatical reason why so many translations give “ean” the meaning “when” ? Or, might their reasons be theological? Thank you in advance, Lynn R.-C. >>Dear Lynn,Robert A. Young has the following:”EAN can be used as a temporal conjunction to convey a future event that is contemporaneous with another future event. 1 John 3:2 (We know that when [EAN] he appears, we shall be like him; cf. John 12:32; Heb. 3:7; 1 John 2:28)” (Young, p. 184).While I agree with Young about the rendering of EAN in 1 John 2:28; 3:2, I really do not think his examples are very helpful here. Note especially Heb. 3:7. Another comment is given by Steven. M. Baugh in his First John Reader:”Normally, EAN introduces a condition in the future: EAN FANERWQHi, “If he should appear.” In this verse, however, John is not expressing doubt as to whether the Lord will appear. In the common use of Greek (found also in the LXX), EAN doubled in function with the indefinite temporal marker hOTAN, “whenever” or “when,” as here and in 3:2. The phrase should then be translated “when he appears.” Remember that a subjunctive phrase does not necessarily communicate doubt about the fulfillment of an event, but that the author does not know precisely when it will happen” (p. 42).I hope this helps,Edgar Foster
Colossians 1:21-23Philippians 4:3-4 hWN TA ONOMATA EN BIBLW ZWHS
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Thu Dec 16 14:21:06 EST 1999
Philippians 4:3-4 hWN TA ONOMATA EN BIBLW ZWHS Colossians 1:21-23
Philippians 4:3-4 hWN TA ONOMATA EN BIBLW ZWHSColossians 1:21-23
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 Lynn Rubier-Capron rubiercapron at earthlink.net
Thu Dec 16 23:14:16 EST 1999
Colossians 1:21-23 Mt 3:2, 4:17 & 2 Corinthians 7:9 I John 3:2 has a third class conditional clause which most translationsrender “when.” The only exception I found on my Logos software was theAmerican Standard Version. I used the same software to search the N.T., inthe NASV. I found I John, 3:2 and 2:28 to be the only two times in which”ean” was rendered “when.” Is there any grammatical reason why so manytranslations give “ean” the meaning “when” ? Or, might their reasons betheological?Thank you in advance, Lynn R.-C.This was intended for the entire list. Would you please let me knowif the message just went to Jeffrey B. Gibson? Thank you.—–Original Message—–From: Jeffrey B. Gibson <jgibson000 at mpdr0.chicago.il.ameritech.net>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Date: Saturday, November 06, 1999 4:23 PMSubject: SBL>Just another reminder for those s who are intending to attend the>Boston SBL (Nov 20-23), and who have not let me know that they will be>doing so and/or who are unaware of the informal meeting of s on>Saturday morning, to get in touch with me (OFF LIST).> >Yours,> >Jeffrey> >—>Jeffrey B. Gibson>7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A>Chicago, Illinois 60626>e-mail jgibson000 at ameritech.net> > > >—> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/>You are currently subscribed to as:rubiercapron at discover.earthlink.net>To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > >
Colossians 1:21-23Mt 3:2, 4:17 & 2 Corinthians 7:9
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 Daniel L Christiansen dlc at multnomah.edu
Fri Dec 17 01:47:06 EST 1999
Lots of Fun! I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 Bill Ross wrote:> Ean is intrinsically conditional, whereas when is not conditional, so it is> not the best translation.> > Since it opposes the phrase OUPW EFANERWQH the idea of “when” seems to be> implied. Perhaps this is quibbling, but it seems to me that just because a term fallswithin the temporal category, it is not thereby disqualified from also being in theconditional category. In the sentence “When I am hungry, I eat,” the “when”indicates the [temporal] conditions under which the action of eating takes place.In the same way, EAN may indicate a more general condition that implied by theEnglish “if” or “since.” Perhaps we ought to be looking further afield in contextfor a translation of EAN ( such as the OUPW phrase mentioned by Bill). FWTQIW (For What The Quibble Is Worth)–Daniel L. Christiansen . . . Happy as a clam, since all my grades are turned inearly! :)Department of BibleMultnomah Bible College8435 NE Glisan StreetPortland, OR 97220(Also Portland Bible College, Prof of Biblical Languages)e-mail: dlc at multnomah.edu
Lots of Fun!I John 3:2 and I John 2:28
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 clayton stirling bartholomew c.s.bartholomew at worldnet.att.net
Fri Dec 17 04:09:20 EST 1999
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28 POxy removed ———->From: Daniel L Christiansen <dlc at multnomah.edu>> Perhaps this is quibbling, but it seems to me that just because a term falls> within the temporal category, it is not thereby disqualified from also being> in the conditional category. In the sentence “When I am hungry, I eat,” the> “when” indicates the [temporal] conditions under which the action of eating> takes place. In the same way, EAN may indicate a more general condition that> implied by the English “if” or “since.”Daniel,I don’t think that is just a quibble. It looks to me like an explanationof syntactical polysemy which is a notion that I spend a fair amount oftime harping on, until people get tired of it.Clay
I John 3:2 and I John 2:28POxy removed
[] 1 John 3:2 Dony K. Donev dony at cupandcross.com
Tue Sep 7 17:58:19 EDT 2004
[] METANOEW and Direct Object [] 1 John 3:2 I read the 1999 discussion on the EAN clause in 1 John 3:2. The general conclusion was that EAN means “when” and not “if,” as any doubt the author may have had referred not to the possibility of His return, but to the lack of knowledge about its time. Point taken, except that Darby’s translation offers a completely different perspective of the text as follows: “Beloved, now are we children of God, and what we shall be has not yet been manifested; we know that if it is manifested we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.” (DBY, 1 John 3:2). Is such rendering appropriate in this case?Dony K. Donev
[] METANOEW and Direct Object[] 1 John 3:2
[] 1 John 3:2 Arie Dirkzwager dirkzwager at pandora.be
Tue Sep 7 18:18:51 EDT 2004
[] 1 John 3:2 [] 1 John 3:3 Dony,EAN must be seen as EI combined with AN.AN with a conjunctive expresses- a futuralis (a way to express the future)- a generalis (a way to express something happening in general).As ESOMEQA is a future tense, EAN has to be seen as a futuralis.I think “when” is appropriate, because the is no doubt that the factsexpressed by ESOMEQA are only possible or not real.ArieDr. A. DirkzwagerHoeselt, Belgiume-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be—– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–Van: “Dony K. Donev” <dony at cupandcross.com>Aan: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Verzonden: dinsdag 7 september 2004 23:58Onderwerp: [] 1 John 3:2I read the 1999 discussion on the EAN clause in 1 John 3:2. The generalconclusion was that EAN means “when” and not “if,” as any doubt the authormay have had referred not to the possibility of His return, but to the lackof knowledge about its time. Point taken, except that Darby’s translationoffers a completely different perspective of the text as follows: “Beloved,now are we children of God, and what we shall be has not yet beenmanifested; we know that if it is manifested we shall be like him, for weshall see him as he is.” (DBY, 1 John 3:2). Is such rendering appropriate inthis case?Dony K. Donev— home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] 1 John 3:2[] 1 John 3:3