dear all
could anyone tell me why there is no article tou in front of Joseph while
throughout the list of the father/ancestors of Mary, there is always the
presence of the article tou even up till “of Adam, of God”(Lk 3:38)?
thanks
hhwong
—
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Luke 3:23 Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱός, ὡς ἐνομίζετο, Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ 24 τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἰανναὶ τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ 25 τοῦ Ματταθίου τοῦ Ἀμὼς τοῦ Ναοὺμ τοῦ Ἑσλὶ τοῦ Ναγγαὶ 26 τοῦ Μάαθ τοῦ Ματταθίου τοῦ Σεμεῒν τοῦ Ἰωσὴχ τοῦ Ἰωδὰ 27 τοῦ Ἰωανὰν τοῦ Ῥησὰ τοῦ Ζοροβαβὲλ τοῦ Σαλαθιὴλ τοῦ Νηρὶ 28 τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἀδδὶ τοῦ Κωσὰμ τοῦ Ἐλμαδὰμ τοῦ Ἢρ 29 τοῦ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Ἐλιέζερ τοῦ Ἰωρὶμ τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ 30 τοῦ Συμεὼν τοῦ Ἰούδα τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἰωνὰμ τοῦ Ἐλιακὶμ 31 τοῦ Μελεὰ τοῦ Μεννὰ τοῦ Ματταθὰ τοῦ Ναθὰμ τοῦ Δαυὶδ 32 τοῦ Ἰεσσαὶ τοῦ Ἰωβὴδ τοῦ Βόος τοῦ Σαλὰ τοῦ Ναασσὼν 33 τοῦ Ἀμιναδὰβ τοῦ Ἀδμὶν τοῦ Ἀρνὶ τοῦ Ἑσρὼμ τοῦ Φάρες τοῦ Ἰούδα 34 τοῦ Ἰακὼβ τοῦ Ἰσαὰκ τοῦ Ἀβραὰμ τοῦ Θάρα τοῦ Ναχὼρ 35 τοῦ Σεροὺχ τοῦ Ῥαγαὺ τοῦ Φάλεκ τοῦ Ἔβερ τοῦ Σαλὰ 36 τοῦ Καϊνὰμ τοῦ Ἀρφαξὰδ τοῦ Σὴμ τοῦ Νῶε τοῦ Λάμεχ 37 τοῦ Μαθουσαλὰ τοῦ Ἑνὼχ τοῦ Ἰάρετ τοῦ Μαλελεὴλ τοῦ Καϊνὰμ 38 τοῦ Ἐνὼς τοῦ Σὴθ τοῦ Ἀδὰμ τοῦ θεοῦ.
[Luke 3:23 KAI AUTOS HN IHSOUS ARCOMENOS hWSEI ETWN TRIAKONTA, WN hUIOS, hWS ENOMIZETO, IWSHF TOU HLI 24 TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI TOU MELCI TOU IANNAI TOU IWSHF 25 TOU MATTAQIOU TOU AMWS TOU NAOUM TOU hESLI TOU NAGGAI 26 TOU MAAQ TOU MATTAQIOU TOU SEMEI+N TOU IWSHC TOU IWDA 27 TOU IWANAN TOU hRHSA TOU ZOROBABEL TOU SALAQIHL TOU NHRI 28 TOU MELCI TOU ADDI TOU KWSAM TOU ELMADAM TOU HR 29 TOU IHSOU TOU ELIEZER TOU IWRIM TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI 30 TOU SUMEWN TOU IOUDA TOU IWSHF TOU IWNAM TOU ELIAKIM 31 TOU MELEA TOU MENNA TOU MATTAQA TOU NAQAM TOU DAUID 32 TOU IESSAI TOU IWBHD TOU BOOS TOU SALA TOU NAASSWN 33 TOU AMINADAB TOU ADMIN TOU ARNI TOU hESRWM TOU FARES TOU IOUDA 34 TOU IAKWB TOU ISAAK TOU ABRAAM TOU QARA TOU NACWR 35 TOU SEROUC TOU hRAGAU TOU FALEK TOU EBER TOU SALA 36 TOU KAI+NAM TOU ARFAXAD TOU SHM TOU NWE TOU LAMEC 37 TOU MAQOUSALA TOU hENWC TOU IARET TOU MALELEHL TOU KAI+NAM 38 TOU ENWS TOU SHQ TOU ADAM TOU QEOU.]
IWSHF is indeclinable; it must be genitive here in the construction with WN hUIOS; the other instances of TOU are
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
—
… regular expressions in names “X TOU Y” = “X son of Y.”
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
—
I wouldn’t make a case on its absence in the Textus Receptus as many a manuscript does have the TOU preceding Joseph.
—
While I concur with Carl regarding the use of the article with expressions
indicating descent, I would also note that it is by no means unknown for the
simple genitive to be used without the article. I cite only one passage which
is selected as likewise being from the Gospel according to Luke though there are
others as well.
εἶπεν δὲ πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι σήμερον σωτηρία τῷ οἴκῳ τούτῳ ἐγένετο, καθότι
καὶ αὐτὸς υἱὸς Ἀβραάμ ἐστιν·
EIPEN DE PROS AUTON hO IHSOUS hOTI SHMERON SWTHRIA TWi OIKWi TOUTWi EGENETO,
KAQOTI KAI AUTOS hUIOS ABRAAM ESTIN.
Note that like Ἰωσὴφ IWSHF in Lk 3.23 Ἀβραάμ ABRAAM is indeclinable but must be
considered to be in the genitive.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
– Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
Cc:
Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:52:55 AM
… regular expressions in names “X TOU Y” = “X son of Y.”
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
—
Hi, Hhong,
Some might argue that Joseph is anarthrous here because he is “new information.”
Miranda: O brave new world, that has such people in’t!
Prospero: ‘Tis new, to thee.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 1:49:19 AM
dear all
could anyone tell me why there is no article tou in front of Joseph while
throughout the list of the father/ancestors of Mary, there is always the
presence of the article tou even up till “of Adam, of God”(Lk 3:38)?
thanks
hhwong
—
Hi, Mark
thanks for the info.
rgds
hhwong
href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org
thanks for Carl and George’s input. maybe this is the reason why TOU is put
in front of IWSHF at the end of verse 24. do you agree?
Luke 3:23 Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱός, ὡς
ἐνομίζετο, Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ 24 τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἰανναὶ τοῦ
Ἰωσὴφ
[Luke 3:23 KAI AUTOS HN IHSOUS ARCOMENOS hWSEI ETWN TRIAKONTA, WN hUIOS, hWS
ENOMIZETO, IWSHF TOU HLI 24 TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI TOU MELCI TOU IANNAI TOU
IWSHF]
2011/2/10 George F Somsel
href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org
Luke 3:23 Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱός, ὡς ἐνομίζετο, Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ 24 τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἰανναὶ τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ 25 τοῦ Ματταθίου τοῦ Ἀμὼς τοῦ Ναοὺμ τοῦ Ἑσλὶ τοῦ Ναγγαὶ 26 τοῦ Μάαθ τοῦ Ματταθίου τοῦ Σεμεῒν τοῦ Ἰωσὴχ τοῦ Ἰωδὰ 27 τοῦ Ἰωανὰν τοῦ Ῥησὰ τοῦ Ζοροβαβὲλ τοῦ Σαλαθιὴλ τοῦ Νηρὶ 28 τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἀδδὶ τοῦ Κωσὰμ τοῦ Ἐλμαδὰμ τοῦ Ἢρ 29 τοῦ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Ἐλιέζερ τοῦ Ἰωρὶμ τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ 30 τοῦ Συμεὼν τοῦ Ἰούδα τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἰωνὰμ τοῦ Ἐλιακὶμ 31 τοῦ Μελεὰ τοῦ Μεννὰ τοῦ Ματταθὰ τοῦ Ναθὰμ τοῦ Δαυὶδ 32 τοῦ Ἰεσσαὶ τοῦ Ἰωβὴδ τοῦ Βόος τοῦ Σαλὰ τοῦ Ναασσὼν 33 τοῦ Ἀμιναδὰβ τοῦ Ἀδμὶν τοῦ Ἀρνὶ τοῦ Ἑσρὼμ τοῦ Φάρες τοῦ Ἰούδα 34 τοῦ Ἰακὼβ τοῦ Ἰσαὰκ τοῦ Ἀβραὰμ τοῦ Θάρα τοῦ Ναχὼρ 35 τοῦ Σεροὺχ τοῦ Ῥαγαὺ τοῦ Φάλεκ τοῦ Ἔβερ τοῦ Σαλὰ 36 τοῦ Καϊνὰμ τοῦ Ἀρφαξὰδ τοῦ Σὴμ τοῦ Νῶε τοῦ Λάμεχ 37 τοῦ Μαθουσαλὰ τοῦ Ἑνὼχ τοῦ Ἰάρετ τοῦ Μαλελεὴλ τοῦ Καϊνὰμ 38 τοῦ Ἐνὼς τοῦ Σὴθ τοῦ Ἀδὰμ τοῦ θεοῦ.
[Luke 3:23 KAI AUTOS HN IHSOUS ARCOMENOS hWSEI ETWN TRIAKONTA, WN hUIOS, hWS ENOMIZETO, IWSHF TOU HLI 24 TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI TOU MELCI TOU IANNAI TOU IWSHF 25 TOU MATTAQIOU TOU AMWS TOU NAOUM TOU hESLI TOU NAGGAI 26 TOU MAAQ TOU MATTAQIOU TOU SEMEI+N TOU IWSHC TOU IWDA 27 TOU IWANAN TOU hRHSA TOU ZOROBABEL TOU SALAQIHL TOU NHRI 28 TOU MELCI TOU ADDI TOU KWSAM TOU ELMADAM TOU HR 29 TOU IHSOU TOU ELIEZER TOU IWRIM TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI 30 TOU SUMEWN TOU IOUDA TOU IWSHF TOU IWNAM TOU ELIAKIM 31 TOU MELEA TOU MENNA TOU MATTAQA TOU NAQAM TOU DAUID 32 TOU IESSAI TOU IWBHD TOU BOOS TOU SALA TOU NAASSWN 33 TOU AMINADAB TOU ADMIN TOU ARNI TOU hESRWM TOU FARES TOU IOUDA 34 TOU IAKWB TOU ISAAK TOU ABRAAM TOU QARA TOU NACWR 35 TOU SEROUC TOU hRAGAU TOU FALEK TOU EBER TOU SALA 36 TOU KAI+NAM TOU ARFAXAD TOU SHM TOU NWE TOU LAMEC 37 TOU MAQOUSALA TOU hENWC TOU IARET TOU MALELEHL TOU KAI+NAM 38 TOU ENWS TOU SHQ TOU ADAM TOU QEOU.]
IWSHF is indeclinable; it must be genitive here in the construction with WN hUIOS; the other instances of TOU are
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
—
… regular expressions in names “X TOU Y” = “X son of Y.”
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
—
I wouldn’t make a case on its absence in the Textus Receptus as many a manuscript does have the TOU preceding Joseph.
—
While I concur with Carl regarding the use of the article with expressions
indicating descent, I would also note that it is by no means unknown for the
simple genitive to be used without the article. I cite only one passage which
is selected as likewise being from the Gospel according to Luke though there are
others as well.
εἶπεν δὲ πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι σήμερον σωτηρία τῷ οἴκῳ τούτῳ ἐγένετο, καθότι
καὶ αὐτὸς υἱὸς Ἀβραάμ ἐστιν·
EIPEN DE PROS AUTON hO IHSOUS hOTI SHMERON SWTHRIA TWi OIKWi TOUTWi EGENETO,
KAQOTI KAI AUTOS hUIOS ABRAAM ESTIN.
Note that like Ἰωσὴφ IWSHF in Lk 3.23 Ἀβραάμ ABRAAM is indeclinable but must be
considered to be in the genitive.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
– Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
Cc:
Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 6:52:55 AM
… regular expressions in names “X TOU Y” = “X son of Y.”
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
—
Hi, Hhong,
Some might argue that Joseph is anarthrous here because he is “new information.”
Miranda: O brave new world, that has such people in’t!
Prospero: ‘Tis new, to thee.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 1:49:19 AM
dear all
could anyone tell me why there is no article tou in front of Joseph while
throughout the list of the father/ancestors of Mary, there is always the
presence of the article tou even up till “of Adam, of God”(Lk 3:38)?
thanks
hhwong
—
Hi, Mark
thanks for the info.
rgds
hhwong
href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org
thanks for Carl and George’s input. maybe this is the reason why TOU is put
in front of IWSHF at the end of verse 24. do you agree?
Luke 3:23 Καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν Ἰησοῦς ἀρχόμενος ὡσεὶ ἐτῶν τριάκοντα, ὢν υἱός, ὡς
ἐνομίζετο, Ἰωσὴφ τοῦ Ἠλὶ 24 τοῦ Μαθθὰτ τοῦ Λευὶ τοῦ Μελχὶ τοῦ Ἰανναὶ τοῦ
Ἰωσὴφ
[Luke 3:23 KAI AUTOS HN IHSOUS ARCOMENOS hWSEI ETWN TRIAKONTA, WN hUIOS, hWS
ENOMIZETO, IWSHF TOU HLI 24 TOU MAQQAT TOU LEUI TOU MELCI TOU IANNAI TOU
IWSHF]
2011/2/10 George F Somsel
href=”mailto:b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org