Luke 2:48 “. . . your father and I”
This is evidently not GS, but I’m not sure how to say exactly why.
Apparently it’s over the word, KAGW, which appears to be a contraction
for “and-I”
Would the disqualification then be because a contraction doesn’t count
as a KAI, or would it be that “I” is considered a proper name? Or
some other reason?
John 17:3 — as I recall, a hundred years or so ago, I thought that
this was a valid GS:
The only True God AND Whom You sent, Jesus Christ. That “The only
True God” was thus identified with “Whom You sent.” As I remember,
Dr. Conrad affirmed this, though I’m not too sure I understood him
right, now.
The question is whether the ON in KAI ON APOSTEILAS is an article.
Some references say “it might be.”
Wallace seems to to me to make John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20 “identical
twin” passages in a discussion in GGBB.
If not so, the verse seems quite singular, to say the least.
Bob
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On Feb 16, 2011, at 2:31 PM,
ἰδοὺ ὁ πατήρ σου κἀγὼ ὀδυνώμενοι ἐζητοῦμέν σε.
IDOU hO PATHR SOU KAGW ODUNWMENOI EZHTOUMEN SE.
I did a double-take here, not realizing at once that “GS” was suppsoed to
mean “a Granville-Sharp construction.”
κἀγώ is, properly speaking, an instance of “crasis” — the fusion of the final vowel or diphthong of one word with the initial vowel or diphthong of a following word; here the AI of KAI is fused with the E of EGW and the fusion is marked by what is called a “crasis mark” over the point of the fusion — and the “crasis mark” is identical in form with a smooth breathing mark.
No. I think rather that this doesn’t count as a “GS” construction because it is perfectly clear that two different persons are being indicated here: “your father” and “I.”
Text please:
John 17:3 αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωὴ ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν.
[John 17:3 hAUTH DE ESTIN hH AIWNIOS ZWH hINA GINWSKWSIN SE TON MONON ALHQINON QEON KAI hON APESTEILAS IHSOUN CRISTON.]
hON is not an article; it is the accusative singular of the relative pronoun. Here there is an understood demonstrative, equivalent to EKEINON, functioning as the antecedent of hON: “the one/him whom you sent” And this verse too differentiates between “you” and “the one whom you sent.” This is NOT a “GS” construction. TON construes with ALHQINON QEON but NOT with what follows it.
How could John 17:3 be a GS?
And this is life eternal, that they might know *You*, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You sent.
ἵνα γινώσκωσιν *σὲ* τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν
hINA GINWSKWSIN *SE* TON MONON ALHQINON KAI ON APESTEILAS IESOUN XRISTON
I think the pronoun SE clearly indicates that there are two people in John 17:3, “You, the only true God” (i.e., the Father), and Jesus, “whom You sent” (i.e., whom the Father sent).
Michael Baber
—
On Feb 16, 2011, at 2:31 PM,
ἰδοὺ ὁ πατήρ σου κἀγὼ ὀδυνώμενοι ἐζητοῦμέν σε.
IDOU hO PATHR SOU KAGW ODUNWMENOI EZHTOUMEN SE.
I did a double-take here, not realizing at once that “GS” was suppsoed to
mean “a Granville-Sharp construction.”
κἀγώ is, properly speaking, an instance of “crasis” — the fusion of the final vowel or diphthong of one word with the initial vowel or diphthong of a following word; here the AI of KAI is fused with the E of EGW and the fusion is marked by what is called a “crasis mark” over the point of the fusion — and the “crasis mark” is identical in form with a smooth breathing mark.
No. I think rather that this doesn’t count as a “GS” construction because it is perfectly clear that two different persons are being indicated here: “your father” and “I.”
Text please:
John 17:3 αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωὴ ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν.
[John 17:3 hAUTH DE ESTIN hH AIWNIOS ZWH hINA GINWSKWSIN SE TON MONON ALHQINON QEON KAI hON APESTEILAS IHSOUN CRISTON.]
hON is not an article; it is the accusative singular of the relative pronoun. Here there is an understood demonstrative, equivalent to EKEINON, functioning as the antecedent of hON: “the one/him whom you sent” And this verse too differentiates between “you” and “the one whom you sent.” This is NOT a “GS” construction. TON construes with ALHQINON QEON but NOT with what follows it.
How could John 17:3 be a GS?
And this is life eternal, that they might know *You*, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You sent.
ἵνα γινώσκωσιν *σὲ* τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν
hINA GINWSKWSIN *SE* TON MONON ALHQINON KAI ON APESTEILAS IESOUN XRISTON
I think the pronoun SE clearly indicates that there are two people in John 17:3, “You, the only true God” (i.e., the Father), and Jesus, “whom You sent” (i.e., whom the Father sent).
Michael Baber
—