[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Mark admin at asarian-host.net
Sat Apr 16 09:54:25 EDT 2005
[] “Self-Study Language Programs” for German, French, etc. [] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Dear Dr. Conrad,In article:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2000-April/010883.htmlYou wrote, about Mt 12:28,> I have long felt that FQANW is one of the strangest verbs in the Greek> language, and its usage in this text seems one of the strangest usages> of it; I take it as something akin to: “Then the Kingdom of God has> arrived here before you were aware of it!”Thayer’s Lexicon says about the verb FQANW that it has a meaning of’prior-ity’, in the sense of “to come before, to preceed,” as in: “We whoare still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead ofthose who are in their graves” (1Th 4:15; NLT). But also that the sense of’prior-ity’ is often absent, meaning simply “to come to, to arrive at; toreach, to attain” — or rather, following my own intuition, the sense of’prior-ity’ is embedded in the sense of somethinhg having ‘drawn near'(from an event set in motion in the past), as in: “But the anger of Godhas caught up with them at last” (1Th 2:16; NLT).At any rate, to me, it made perfect sense to translate Mt 12:28 as follows(for content):”But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then you can be sure theKingdom of God has arrived {at last}!”In the sense of having ‘caught up’ with them: it is finally here; whichis to say, “the Kingdom of God has drawn near” (Mk 1:15).I am, therefore, most curious as to why you believe FQANW in Mt 12:28 mustcarry a meaning of ‘prior-ity’, so as to say:”Then the Kingdom of God has arrived here before you were aware of it!”Thank you for your time,- Mark
[] “Self-Study Language Programs” for German, French, etc.[] FQANW in Mt 12:28
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Carl W.Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Sat Apr 16 10:52:24 EDT 2005
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 [] FQANW in Mt 12:28 On Apr 16, 2005, at 9:54 AM, Mark wrote:> > Dear Dr. Conrad,> > In article:> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2000-April/010883.html> > You wrote, about Mt 12:28,> >> I have long felt that FQANW is one of the strangest verbs in the Greek>> language, and its usage in this text seems one of the strangest usages>> of it; I take it as something akin to: “Then the Kingdom of God has>> arrived here before you were aware of it!”> > Thayer’s Lexicon says about the verb FQANW that it has a meaning of> ‘prior-ity’, in the sense of “to come before, to preceed,” as in: “We > who> are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead > of> those who are in their graves” (1Th 4:15; NLT). But also that the > sense of> ‘prior-ity’ is often absent, meaning simply “to come to, to arrive at; > to> reach, to attain” — or rather, following my own intuition, the sense > of> ‘prior-ity’ is embedded in the sense of somethinhg having ‘drawn near’> (from an event set in motion in the past), as in: “But the anger of God> has caught up with them at last” (1Th 2:16; NLT).> > At any rate, to me, it made perfect sense to translate Mt 12:28 as > follows> (for content):> > “But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then you can be sure > the> Kingdom of God has arrived {at last}!”> > In the sense of having ‘caught up’ with them: it is finally here; which> is to say, “the Kingdom of God has drawn near” (Mk 1:15).> > I am, therefore, most curious as to why you believe FQANW in Mt 12:28 > must> carry a meaning of ‘prior-ity’, so as to say:> > “Then the Kingdom of God has arrived here before you were aware of it!”I think that you misunderstood my version: it was not literal and I don’t really think that you and I are in any disagreement about what the Greek text means. But it’s not so simply “has arrived”; there’s an element that is clear from the context of the Jesus-saying that those whom he addresses didn’t recognize the fact of the Kingdom’s arrival: its arrival “snuck up on them.” Nor do I think that the statement of Jesus in Mt 12;28 is quite equivalent to the HGGIKEN hH BASILEIA TOU QEOU; the latter is a proclamation; the element of surprise is clearly evident,however, in Mt 12;28 from the EF’ hUMAS.Incidentally, hereafter please use a full-name signature in accordance with protocol (if you haven’t yet read the BG-FAQ, please read it carefully at http://www.ibiblio.org//faq.txt ).Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28[] FQANW in Mt 12:28
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Mark admin at asarian-host.net
Sat Apr 16 11:27:46 EDT 2005
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 [] FQANW in Mt 12:28 > —–Original Message—–> From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:cwconrad at ioa.com]> Sent: zaterdag 16 april 2005 16:54> To: Mark> Cc: at lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [] FQANW in Mt 12:28> > > Thayer’s Lexicon says about the verb FQANW that it has a meaning of> > ‘prior-ity’, in the sense of “to come before, to preceed,”> > as in: “We who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to> > meet him ahead of those who are in their graves” (1Th 4:15; NLT).> > But also that the sense of ‘prior-ity’ is often absent, meaning simply> > “to come to, to arrive at; to reach, to attain” — or rather,> > following my own intuition, the sense of ‘prior-ity’ is embedded in> > the sense of somethinhg having ‘drawn near’ (from an event set in> > motion in the past), as in: “But the anger of God has caught up with> > them at last” (1Th 2:16; NLT).> >> > At any rate, to me, it made perfect sense to translate Mt 12:28 as> > follows (for content):> >> > “But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then you> > can be sure the Kingdom of God has arrived {at last}!”> >> > In the sense of having ‘caught up’ with them: it is finally> > here; which is to say, “the Kingdom of God has drawn near” (Mk 1:15).> >Dear Dr. Conrad,Thank you or your reply (more below).> I think that you misunderstood my version: it was not literal and I> don’t really think that you and I are in any disagreement about what> the Greek text means.I really did not think you meant it literal, of course. :)> But it’s not so simply “has arrived”; there’s an element that is clear> from the context of the Jesus-saying that those whom he addresses didn’t> recognize the fact of the Kingdom’s arrival: its arrival “snuck up on> them.”Now that is a very interesting observation.”Then the Kingdom of God has arrived here before you were aware of it!”It reminds me of Gospel of Thomas 51:”His disciples said to him, … “When will the new world come?” He said tothem, “That which you are waiting for has already come, but for your partyou do not recognize it.”> Nor do I think that the statement of> Jesus in Mt 12;28 is quite equivalent to the HGGIKEN hH BASILEIA TOU> QEOU; the latter is a proclamation;I agree; Mk 1:15 was not the best example.> the element of surprise> is clearly evident, however, in Mt 12;28 from the EF’ hUMAS.So as to say, “sprung ‘upon you'”, so to speak?> Incidentally, hereafter please use a full-name signature in> accordance with protocol (if you haven’t yet read the BG-FAQ,> please read it carefully at http://www.ibiblio.org//faq.txt ).That document seems absent; but I get the point. :)Thank you,- Mark P.Th. Kramer
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28[] FQANW in Mt 12:28
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Wayne Leman wayne_leman at sil.org
Sat Apr 16 11:38:10 EDT 2005
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 [] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Carl said to Mark:>> Incidentally, hereafter please use a full-name signature in>> accordance with protocol (if you haven’t yet read the BG-FAQ,>> please read it carefully at http://www.ibiblio.org//faq.txt ).> > That document seems absent; but I get the point. 🙂Mark, it is a dead link for me, also. This URL is not dead:http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo//faq.txtbut it is not the complete current FAQ. The latest complete FAQ may be one that Carl posted last year, now in the archives, and at URL:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2004-October/031590.htmlWayne—–Wayne LemanBetter Bibles Blog: http://englishbibles.blogspot.com> > Thank you,> > – Mark P.Th. Kramer
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28[] FQANW in Mt 12:28
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 Wayne Leman wayne_leman at sil.org
Sat Apr 16 11:42:42 EDT 2005
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28 [] Accordance Review > Carl said to Mark:> >>> Incidentally, hereafter please use a full-name signature in>>> accordance with protocol (if you haven’t yet read the BG-FAQ,>>> please read it carefully at http://www.ibiblio.org//faq.txt ).>> >> That document seems absent; but I get the point. 🙂> > Mark, it is a dead link for me, also. This URL is not dead:> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo//faq.txt> > but it is not the complete current FAQ. The latest complete FAQ may be one > that Carl posted last year, now in the archives, and at URL:> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2004-October/031590.htmlAnd had I read the first file more thoroughly, I would have been directed to the FAQ at the home page, URL:http://www.ibiblio.org//Wayne—–Wayne LemanBetter Bibles Blog: http://englishbibles.blogspot.com
[] FQANW in Mt 12:28[] Accordance Review