[] Acts 19,34 Eddie Mishoe edmishoe at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 6 20:27:34 EDT 2004
[] Acts 19,6 [] Acts 19,34 EPIGNONTES DE hOTI IOUDAIOS ESTIN FWNH EGENETO MIA EKPANTWN hWS EPI hWRAS DUO KRAZONTWN, MEGALH H ARTEMISEFESIWNThe NET Bible has:19:34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, theyall shouted in unison, “Great is Artemis” of theEphesians!” for about two hours.Culy/Parsons has:But when they recognized that he was a Jew, one cryarose from all those who were shouting, for about twohours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”Making note of the Genitive KRAZONTWN, Culy, and Ithink rightly, insists that MIA must modify FWNH,since PANTWN modifies KRAZONTWN. Contra the NET Bib lethen, MIA EK PANTWN must be undone, since PANTWN goeswith KRAZONTWN (not part of some idiomaticexpression).All of which means we have quite a mess with thisverse. And I’m not sure just what this “one voice” hadto say as the others were shouting. The NET Bibletranslation seems smooth, but grammatically is itpossible, and Culy/Parsons translation seems to leavethe “one voice” unattended. Any other suggestedtranslations or support for those given above?=====Eddie MishoePastor__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
[] Acts 19,6[] Acts 19,34
[] Acts 19,34 Eddie Mishoe edmishoe at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 6 20:27:34 EDT 2004
[] Acts 19,6 [] Acts 19,34 EPIGNONTES DE hOTI IOUDAIOS ESTIN FWNH EGENETO MIA EKPANTWN hWS EPI hWRAS DUO KRAZONTWN, MEGALH H ARTEMISEFESIWNThe NET Bible has:19:34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, theyall shouted in unison, “Great is Artemis” of theEphesians!” for about two hours.Culy/Parsons has:But when they recognized that he was a Jew, one cryarose from all those who were shouting, for about twohours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”Making note of the Genitive KRAZONTWN, Culy, and Ithink rightly, insists that MIA must modify FWNH,since PANTWN modifies KRAZONTWN. Contra the NET Bib lethen, MIA EK PANTWN must be undone, since PANTWN goeswith KRAZONTWN (not part of some idiomaticexpression).All of which means we have quite a mess with thisverse. And I’m not sure just what this “one voice” hadto say as the others were shouting. The NET Bibletranslation seems smooth, but grammatically is itpossible, and Culy/Parsons translation seems to leavethe “one voice” unattended. Any other suggestedtranslations or support for those given above?=====Eddie MishoePastor__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
[] Acts 19,6[] Acts 19,34
[] Acts 19,34 Barbara D. Colt babc2 at comcast.net
Tue Apr 6 22:56:41 EDT 2004
[] Acts 19,34 [] Acts 19,34 On 6 Apr 2004 at 17:27, Eddie Mishoe wrote:> > EPIGNONTES DE hOTI IOUDAIOS ESTIN FWNH EGENETO MIA EK> PANTWN hWS EPI hWRAS DUO KRAZONTWN, MEGALH H ARTEMIS> EFESIWN> > The NET Bible has:> 19:34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they> all shouted in unison, “Great is Artemis” of the> Ephesians!” for about two hours.> > Culy/Parsons has:> > But when they recognized that he was a Jew, one cry> arose from all those who were shouting, for about two> hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”> > Making note of the Genitive KRAZONTWN, Culy, and I> think rightly, insists that MIA must modify FWNH,> since PANTWN modifies KRAZONTWN. Contra the NET Bib le> then, MIA EK PANTWN must be undone, since PANTWN goes> with KRAZONTWN (not part of some idiomatic> expression).> > All of which means we have quite a mess with this> verse. And I’m not sure just what this “one voice” had> to say as the others were shouting. The NET Bible> translation seems smooth, but grammatically is it> possible, and Culy/Parsons translation seems to leave> the “one voice” unattended. Any other suggested> translations or support for those given above?> The verse does indeed seem to me “quite a mess.” Am I crazy? That EPIGNONTES sure seems to me like what I learnt to call a “dangling participle.” Are they allowed in Greek?Barbara D. Colt, mailto:babc2 at comcast.netSt John the Evangelist, San Francisco>From envy, hatred, and malice and all uncharitablenessGood Lord, deliver us.
[] Acts 19,34[] Acts 19,34
[] Acts 19,34 Barbara D. Colt babc2 at comcast.net
Tue Apr 6 22:56:41 EDT 2004
[] Acts 19,34 [] Acts 19,34 On 6 Apr 2004 at 17:27, Eddie Mishoe wrote:> > EPIGNONTES DE hOTI IOUDAIOS ESTIN FWNH EGENETO MIA EK> PANTWN hWS EPI hWRAS DUO KRAZONTWN, MEGALH H ARTEMIS> EFESIWN> > The NET Bible has:> 19:34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they> all shouted in unison, “Great is Artemis” of the> Ephesians!” for about two hours.> > Culy/Parsons has:> > But when they recognized that he was a Jew, one cry> arose from all those who were shouting, for about two> hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”> > Making note of the Genitive KRAZONTWN, Culy, and I> think rightly, insists that MIA must modify FWNH,> since PANTWN modifies KRAZONTWN. Contra the NET Bib le> then, MIA EK PANTWN must be undone, since PANTWN goes> with KRAZONTWN (not part of some idiomatic> expression).> > All of which means we have quite a mess with this> verse. And I’m not sure just what this “one voice” had> to say as the others were shouting. The NET Bible> translation seems smooth, but grammatically is it> possible, and Culy/Parsons translation seems to leave> the “one voice” unattended. Any other suggested> translations or support for those given above?> The verse does indeed seem to me “quite a mess.” Am I crazy? That EPIGNONTES sure seems to me like what I learnt to call a “dangling participle.” Are they allowed in Greek?Barbara D. Colt, mailto:babc2 at comcast.netSt John the Evangelist, San Francisco>From envy, hatred, and malice and all uncharitablenessGood Lord, deliver us.
[] Acts 19,34[] Acts 19,34
[] Acts 19,34 Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Wed Apr 7 02:07:20 EDT 2004
[] Acts 19,34 [] KATESTALMENOUS (Acts 19,36) > EPIGNONTES DE hOTI IOUDAIOS ESTIN FWNH EGENETO MIA EK> PANTWN hWS EPI hWRAS DUO KRAZONTWN, MEGALH H ARTEMIS> EFESIWN> > The NET Bible has:> 19:34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they> all shouted in unison, “Great is Artemis” of the> Ephesians!” for about two hours.> > Culy/Parsons has:> > But when they recognized that he was a Jew, one cry> arose from all those who were shouting, for about two> hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”> > Making note of the Genitive KRAZONTWN, Culy, and I> think rightly, insists that MIA must modify FWNH,> since PANTWN modifies KRAZONTWN. Contra the NET Bib le> then, MIA EK PANTWN must be undone, since PANTWN goes> with KRAZONTWN (not part of some idiomatic> expression).> > All of which means we have quite a mess with this> verse. And I’m not sure just what this “one voice” had> to say as the others were shouting. The NET Bible> translation seems smooth, but grammatically is it> possible, and Culy/Parsons translation seems to leave> the “one voice” unattended. Any other suggested> translations or support for those given above?I don’t see the mess, but maybe the problem is the two different types oftranslation? The NET bible attempts to give the meaning in clear and normalEnglish. When one voice comes from a whole crowd, the meaning is that thecrowd shouted in unison or “as with one voice”. (The Latin-derived “unison”is similar to FWNH MIA.)The Culy/Parsons rendering is the special kind of “translation” one uses inGreek textbooks and discussions. The purpose is not to render the meaning inclear and normal English, but to talk about Greek grammar and words usingEnglish words. So, they have made a more literal rendering. If one assumesthat this is normal English, problems arise, because then the reader istrying to make sense out of it from normal English usage. The onevoice/sound is not from one person, but what emanates from the crowd. Theywere all shouting, but they shouted the same thing/sound/message. I canalmost here the chanting of the crowd: MEGALH hH ARTEMIS EFESIWN – MEGALH hHARTEMIS EFESIWN – MEGALH hH ARTEMIS EFESIWN….. for two hours!Iver Larsen
[] Acts 19,34[] KATESTALMENOUS (Acts 19,36)
[] Acts 19,34 Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Wed Apr 7 02:07:20 EDT 2004
[] Acts 19,34 [] KATESTALMENOUS (Acts 19,36) > EPIGNONTES DE hOTI IOUDAIOS ESTIN FWNH EGENETO MIA EK> PANTWN hWS EPI hWRAS DUO KRAZONTWN, MEGALH H ARTEMIS> EFESIWN> > The NET Bible has:> 19:34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they> all shouted in unison, “Great is Artemis” of the> Ephesians!” for about two hours.> > Culy/Parsons has:> > But when they recognized that he was a Jew, one cry> arose from all those who were shouting, for about two> hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”> > Making note of the Genitive KRAZONTWN, Culy, and I> think rightly, insists that MIA must modify FWNH,> since PANTWN modifies KRAZONTWN. Contra the NET Bib le> then, MIA EK PANTWN must be undone, since PANTWN goes> with KRAZONTWN (not part of some idiomatic> expression).> > All of which means we have quite a mess with this> verse. And I’m not sure just what this “one voice” had> to say as the others were shouting. The NET Bible> translation seems smooth, but grammatically is it> possible, and Culy/Parsons translation seems to leave> the “one voice” unattended. Any other suggested> translations or support for those given above?I don’t see the mess, but maybe the problem is the two different types oftranslation? The NET bible attempts to give the meaning in clear and normalEnglish. When one voice comes from a whole crowd, the meaning is that thecrowd shouted in unison or “as with one voice”. (The Latin-derived “unison”is similar to FWNH MIA.)The Culy/Parsons rendering is the special kind of “translation” one uses inGreek textbooks and discussions. The purpose is not to render the meaning inclear and normal English, but to talk about Greek grammar and words usingEnglish words. So, they have made a more literal rendering. If one assumesthat this is normal English, problems arise, because then the reader istrying to make sense out of it from normal English usage. The onevoice/sound is not from one person, but what emanates from the crowd. Theywere all shouting, but they shouted the same thing/sound/message. I canalmost here the chanting of the crowd: MEGALH hH ARTEMIS EFESIWN – MEGALH hHARTEMIS EFESIWN – MEGALH hH ARTEMIS EFESIWN….. for two hours!Iver Larsen
[] Acts 19,34[] KATESTALMENOUS (Acts 19,36)