[] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Nov 22 20:01:27 EST 2006
[] Act 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS [] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS On Nov 22, 2006, at 7:50 PM, Oun Kwon wrote:> Act 4:33b CARIS TE MEGALH HN EPI PANTAS AUTOUS> > What is sense of CARIS? What is referred to by PANTAS AUTOUS – the> apostles in the same verse or the whole group of the believers in the> preceding verse?> > Cf. CEV: God greatly blessed them all.> > Cf. Zerwick & Grosvenor: ‘”great favor was on them” meaning they were> held in high esteem. [It looks like they = the apostles here in the> note in “A Grammatical analysis of the Geek New Testament”]CARIS, so commonly Englished as “grace,” is a difficult word to pin down in the Greek because we don’t really have an adequate English equivalent of it. It refers to the reciprocal presentation and reciprocation of gestures of good will by parties in relationship to each other: a “favor” done by one to another, the “good will” or “gratitude” or “thanks” evoked by such a gesture in the recipient.That being the case, one might ask whether the sense of CARIS in the text in question has more to do with the way that the believing community acted toward outsiders or with the way that the receiving community was reacted to by outsiders. I would guess that the latter is what’s underscored here: the believing community was very well thought of by outsiders. But there’s the reciprocal aspect of the word CARIS: it is the behavior of the believing community that wins the reciprocal good will of outsiders in relationship to them.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] Act 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS[] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS
[] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 22 20:46:14 EST 2006
[] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS [] Jn 2.4 and translation practices I note that BDAG places XARIS as found in this passage among the passive usages in the sense of “a beneficent good will.” On the other hand it notes prior to giving any definitions that “It seems that XARIS is not always clearly differentiated in mng. fr. XARA; Apollodorus [II b.c.] . . . Charites are so called from XARA [joy], for poets freq. equate XARIS with XARA. Cp. the wordplay AcPl Ha 8, 7 XARAS KAI XARITOS the house was filled with gaiety and gratitude.).” Perhaps it would simply indicate that everyone was happy (“great joy was among all of them”). georgegfsomsel_________—– Original Message —-From: Carl W. Conrad <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>To: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com>Cc: B Greek < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:01:27 PMSubject: Re: [] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUSOn Nov 22, 2006, at 7:50 PM, Oun Kwon wrote:> Act 4:33b CARIS TE MEGALH HN EPI PANTAS AUTOUS> > What is sense of CARIS? What is referred to by PANTAS AUTOUS – the> apostles in the same verse or the whole group of the believers in the> preceding verse?> > Cf. CEV: God greatly blessed them all.> > Cf. Zerwick & Grosvenor: ‘”great favor was on them” meaning they were> held in high esteem. [It looks like they = the apostles here in the> note in “A Grammatical analysis of the Geek New Testament”]CARIS, so commonly Englished as “grace,” is a difficult word to pin down in the Greek because we don’t really have an adequate English equivalent of it. It refers to the reciprocal presentation and reciprocation of gestures of good will by parties in relationship to each other: a “favor” done by one to another, the “good will” or “gratitude” or “thanks” evoked by such a gesture in the recipient.That being the case, one might ask whether the sense of CARIS in the text in question has more to do with the way that the believing community acted toward outsiders or with the way that the receiving community was reacted to by outsiders. I would guess that the latter is what’s underscored here: the believing community was very well thought of by outsiders. But there’s the reciprocal aspect of the word CARIS: it is the behavior of the believing community that wins the reciprocal good will of outsiders in relationship to them.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/— home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] Acts 4:33b CARIS and AUTOUS[] Jn 2.4 and translation practices
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS Mark Spitsbergen awakesd at earthlink.net
Thu Nov 23 13:32:12 EST 2006
[] Jn 2.4 and translation practices [] Acts 4:33- CARIS Dr. Conrad, Is it possible that we may bias ourselves against an evolving contextualdefinition of a word by holding fast to a narrow definition of these ancientwords? Should we not consider that God has sanctified certain words for hisown unique application, which is unveiled through the context in which thosewords appear? As we observe the usage of the word CARIS, it evolves from aunique description of who the incarnate Word is (John 1:14), to that whichthe saints are given in order to function in supernatural gifts ³ECONTES DECARISMATA KATA THN CARIN THN DOQEISAN HMIN² (Romans 12:6). Should we notalso consider that the ³great grace² that was on the church signifies theempowerment given to them to work miracles and preach the gospel with poweras Jesus commanded?Mark Spitsbergen
[] Jn 2.4 and translation practices[] Acts 4:33- CARIS
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Nov 23 14:25:11 EST 2006
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS [] Keyman Greek keyboard Different authors use words in slightly differing ways, and while context must always be considered when reading any passage, I would be careful to avoid any notion that there is a “Holy Ghost” Greek being used in any passage. I wouldn’t give any different consideration to the language used in the NT than I would to that used by Plato or Athanasius (though A’s usage is undoubtedly going to be colored by the NT). Each author and even each work and passage within a work must be considered in it’s own right without having some view imposed upon it from one’s presuppositions regarding what it means (or doesn’t mean) to be Christian. If we are open to letting the author speak as he wishes to speak, we may find ourselves occasionally surprised. georgegfsomsel_________—– Original Message —-From: Mark Spitsbergen <awakesd at earthlink.net>To: at lists.ibiblio.orgSent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:32:12 PMSubject: [] Acts 4:33- CARISDr. Conrad,Is it possible that we may bias ourselves against an evolving contextualdefinition of a word by holding fast to a narrow definition of these ancientwords? Should we not consider that God has sanctified certain words for hisown unique application, which is unveiled through the context in which thosewords appear? As we observe the usage of the word CARIS, it evolves from aunique description of who the incarnate Word is (John 1:14), to that whichthe saints are given in order to function in supernatural gifts ³ECONTES DECARISMATA KATA THN CARIN THN DOQEISAN HMIN² (Romans 12:6). Should we notalso consider that the ³great grace² that was on the church signifies theempowerment given to them to work miracles and preach the gospel with poweras Jesus commanded?Mark Spitsbergen— home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS[] Keyman Greek keyboard
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS shoes6 at juno.com shoes6 at juno.com
Fri Nov 24 13:31:52 EST 2006
[] Jn 2.4 and translation practices [] Acts 4:33- CARIS An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed…Name: not availableUrl: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//attachments/20061124/57dae9e7/attachment.pl
[] Jn 2.4 and translation practices[] Acts 4:33- CARIS
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Nov 24 17:19:33 EST 2006
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS [] Rev. 19:21–names written on what?? On Nov 24, 2006, at 1:31 PM, shoes6 at juno.com wrote:> > Mark,> > You asked a question of Carl but addressed your letter to a group. So> I will take the liberty of responding to your question — but I hope> that Carl will, also.> > A discussion of your question could easily slide off-topic, but I’ll> try to stay on track.> > If you mean that vocabulary is used differently by one writer than it> is by another, then certainly you are correct. It becomes absurd to> require that one word have exactly one meaning at all times. Context> bears that out, and often supplies hints as to particular meanings.> > However, if we were to assume a special spiritual meaning exists for> the words, then the next question is: who’s got the dictionary for the> special spiritual meanings? How could we know what anything means —> especially if one “spiritually inspired” interpreter disagrees with> another? My question is not hypothetical, but is borne out by church> history.> > Therefore, until God grants enlightenment to all Greek students, we> must choose between using tools or being ignorant.> > So get back to class, Mark. 🙂> > Moderators, please forgive me if I have gone too far off-topic.Well, Ted, you have rightly called attention to the fact that it is ahermeneutical issue that is being raised here, and that it is, as such,outside the parameters of proper list discussion.> > Mark Spitsbergen <awakesd at earthlink.net> wrote:> > Dr. Conrad,> > Is it possible that we may bias ourselves against an evolving > contextual> definition of a word by holding fast to a narrow definition of these> ancient> words? Should we not consider that God has sanctified certain words > for his> own unique application, which is unveiled through the context in which> those> words appear? As we observe the usage of the word CARIS, it evolves > from a> unique description of who the incarnate Word is (John 1:14), to > that which> the saints are given in order to function in supernatural gifts ? > ECONTES DE> CARISMATA KATA THN CARIN THN DOQEISAN HMIN? (Romans 12:6). Should > we not> also consider that the ?great grace? that was on the church > signifies the> empowerment given to them to work miracles and preach the gospel > with power> as Jesus commanded?> > Mark Spitsbergen> > > —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/Carl W. ConradCo-Chair, ListDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu or cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] Acts 4:33- CARIS[] Rev. 19:21–names written on what??