Did Paul Author Hebrews? CWestf5155 at aol.com CWestf5155 at aol.com
Tue Sep 8 13:03:38 EDT 1998
Mark 6:2 Arzareth (4 Esdras 13:45) In a message dated 9/8/98 4:54:38 AM Mountain Daylight Time, thmann at juno.comwrites:> Greetings All:> > This is probably too involved a question for , but I have been> wondering what the pros and cons are (grammatically, syntactically, etc.)> regarding the Pauline authorship of Hebrews. Can anyone suggest a> particularly well-balanced article or book dealing with this question? > Many thanks.> > Best in Christ,> > Theodore “Ted” H. Mann> thmann at juno.com> In addition to the introductions cited, P. Ellingworth discusses authorship inhis <<Commentary on Hebrews>>, pp. 3-21. As he says, “The idea of Paulineauthorship of Hebrews is now almost universally abandoned” (p. 3).To me, two things about the letter that are strikingly Pauline are theassociation of the triad of love, faith and hope (see particularly 10:10-25)and the association with Timothy in 13:23. In contrast, the style of Greek, the structure of the letter, the vocabularyselected, the way the OT is used and the way in which the author relates tothe recipients (who are known to him) and interjects himself into the text ismarkedly different from Paul’s other letters.Cindy WestfallPhD Student Roehampton
Mark 6:2Arzareth (4 Esdras 13:45)
Did Paul Author Hebrews? Jack Kilmon jkilmon at historian.net
Tue Sep 8 16:43:04 EDT 1998
Homeruns reading for vocabulary CWestf5155 at aol.com wrote:> In a message dated 9/8/98 4:54:38 AM Mountain Daylight Time, thmann at juno.com> writes:> > > Greetings All:> >> > This is probably too involved a question for , but I have been> > wondering what the pros and cons are (grammatically, syntactically, etc.)> > regarding the Pauline authorship of Hebrews. Can anyone suggest a> > particularly well-balanced article or book dealing with this question?> > Many thanks.> >> > Best in Christ,> >> > Theodore “Ted” H. Mann> > thmann at juno.com> >> > In addition to the introductions cited, P. Ellingworth discusses authorship in> his <<Commentary on Hebrews>>, pp. 3-21. As he says, “The idea of Pauline> authorship of Hebrews is now almost universally abandoned” (p. 3).> > To me, two things about the letter that are strikingly Pauline are the> association of the triad of love, faith and hope (see particularly 10:10-25)This association is addressed by Paul to the Corinthians, a mission towhich Apolloswas dispatched. Apollos would have been veryfamiliar with this.> and the association with Timothy in 13:23.Who must have been well known…and also considered a “brother” to otherPaulineproteges…such as Apollos.> In contrast, the style of Greek, the structure of the letter, the vocabulary> selected, the way the OT is used and the way in which the author relates to> the recipients (who are known to him) and interjects himself into the text is> markedly different from Paul’s other letters.Yes..using very Philoesque formulae in beautiful Alexandrian Greek,also suggestingApollos who certainly would have been acquaintedwith the Philo school, if not a member..prior to his leaving Alexandriafor Ephesus.I think all indicators point to Apollos, at least among the knownassociates of Paul or alternately another highly educated Alexandrianemigre to Asia Minor…probably Ephesus.Jack
Homerunsreading for vocabulary
Did Paul Author Hebrews? Ward Powers bwpowers at eagles.bbs.net.au
Mon Sep 14 00:51:00 EDT 1998
Mac Software Is Maj. Text easier to read? At 00:10 98/09/14 GMT, Mark Goodacre wrote:>On 13 Sep 98 at 22:15, Schling wrote:> >> If my memory serves me correctly (and it very well may not), Marie>> Isaacs wrote a book that, as I recall, dealt almost solely with theauthorship>> of Hebrews. You might want to check it out: Marie Isaacs, _Sacred Space_,>> Journal for the Study of the New Testament Supplement Series 73,(Sheffield:>> Academic Press, 1992). Hope this helps!> >Actually Marie Isaacs’ (excellent) book does not deal much with the issue of >authorship. For blurb and ordering information, see:> >http://www.shef-ac-press.co.uk/catalog/bookdets.cfm?id=33491&bkref=308> >MarkRe the authorship of Hebrews:My understanding of the field is that the requirements are: to be a Jew,well grounded in the Hebrew OT; to be well educated and able to writeexcellent Greek; to be one of the second-generation of Christians (i.e.,not an apostle or other high-level eyewitness) but one who is active in thelife of the early church; to have a penetrating insight into the essence ofthe New Covenant in Jesus Christ.Paul is excluded on a number of grounds, which have already been canvassed.It is POSSIBLE that the author of Hebrews could be someone not otherwisementioned in the NT: but the kind of person who would write this epistle,with its personal references (e.g., “I want you to know that our brotherTimothy has been set free” 13:23) and its contents, would almost certainlyhave come to sufficient attention in the early church to be mentionedsomewhere in the pages of the NT.When last I looked into this matter, there were four candidates for thehonour, and it was thought that there was about a 95% probability that theauthor was one of these four.The candidates were (alphabetically): Apollos; Barnabas; Priscilla; Silas.Some people thought Priscilla excluded on principle (women do not writeScripture) or because of a masculine self-reference in the epistle; othersheld that the former is an a priori bias and that the latter can beexplained on the basis of general usage, so that Priscilla is as likely acandidate as any other.Is this still the state of play, or have there been recent developments?Regards,Ward PowersRev Dr B. Ward Powers Phone (International): 61-2-9799-750110 Grosvenor Crescent Phone (Australia): (02) 9799-7501SUMMER HILL NSW 2130 email: bwpowers at eagles.bbs.net.auAUSTRALIA.
Mac SoftwareIs Maj. Text easier to read?
Did Paul Author Hebrews? CWestf5155 at aol.com CWestf5155 at aol.com
Tue Sep 8 13:03:38 EDT 1998
Mark 6:2 Arzareth (4 Esdras 13:45) In a message dated 9/8/98 4:54:38 AM Mountain Daylight Time, thmann at juno.comwrites:> Greetings All:> > This is probably too involved a question for , but I have been> wondering what the pros and cons are (grammatically, syntactically, etc.)> regarding the Pauline authorship of Hebrews. Can anyone suggest a> particularly well-balanced article or book dealing with this question? > Many thanks.> > Best in Christ,> > Theodore “Ted” H. Mann> thmann at juno.com> In addition to the introductions cited, P. Ellingworth discusses authorship inhis <<Commentary on Hebrews>>, pp. 3-21. As he says, “The idea of Paulineauthorship of Hebrews is now almost universally abandoned” (p. 3).To me, two things about the letter that are strikingly Pauline are theassociation of the triad of love, faith and hope (see particularly 10:10-25)and the association with Timothy in 13:23. In contrast, the style of Greek, the structure of the letter, the vocabularyselected, the way the OT is used and the way in which the author relates tothe recipients (who are known to him) and interjects himself into the text ismarkedly different from Paul’s other letters.Cindy WestfallPhD Student Roehampton
Mark 6:2Arzareth (4 Esdras 13:45)
Did Paul Author Hebrews? Jack Kilmon jkilmon at historian.net
Tue Sep 8 16:43:04 EDT 1998
Homeruns reading for vocabulary CWestf5155 at aol.com wrote:> In a message dated 9/8/98 4:54:38 AM Mountain Daylight Time, thmann at juno.com> writes:> > > Greetings All:> >> > This is probably too involved a question for , but I have been> > wondering what the pros and cons are (grammatically, syntactically, etc.)> > regarding the Pauline authorship of Hebrews. Can anyone suggest a> > particularly well-balanced article or book dealing with this question?> > Many thanks.> >> > Best in Christ,> >> > Theodore “Ted” H. Mann> > thmann at juno.com> >> > In addition to the introductions cited, P. Ellingworth discusses authorship in> his <<Commentary on Hebrews>>, pp. 3-21. As he says, “The idea of Pauline> authorship of Hebrews is now almost universally abandoned” (p. 3).> > To me, two things about the letter that are strikingly Pauline are the> association of the triad of love, faith and hope (see particularly 10:10-25)This association is addressed by Paul to the Corinthians, a mission towhich Apolloswas dispatched. Apollos would have been veryfamiliar with this.> and the association with Timothy in 13:23.Who must have been well known…and also considered a “brother” to otherPaulineproteges…such as Apollos.> In contrast, the style of Greek, the structure of the letter, the vocabulary> selected, the way the OT is used and the way in which the author relates to> the recipients (who are known to him) and interjects himself into the text is> markedly different from Paul’s other letters.Yes..using very Philoesque formulae in beautiful Alexandrian Greek,also suggestingApollos who certainly would have been acquaintedwith the Philo school, if not a member..prior to his leaving Alexandriafor Ephesus.I think all indicators point to Apollos, at least among the knownassociates of Paul or alternately another highly educated Alexandrianemigre to Asia Minor…probably Ephesus.Jack
Homerunsreading for vocabulary
Did Paul Author Hebrews? Ward Powers bwpowers at eagles.bbs.net.au
Mon Sep 14 00:51:00 EDT 1998
Mac Software Is Maj. Text easier to read? At 00:10 98/09/14 GMT, Mark Goodacre wrote:>On 13 Sep 98 at 22:15, Schling wrote:> >> If my memory serves me correctly (and it very well may not), Marie>> Isaacs wrote a book that, as I recall, dealt almost solely with theauthorship>> of Hebrews. You might want to check it out: Marie Isaacs, _Sacred Space_,>> Journal for the Study of the New Testament Supplement Series 73,(Sheffield:>> Academic Press, 1992). Hope this helps!> >Actually Marie Isaacs’ (excellent) book does not deal much with the issue of >authorship. For blurb and ordering information, see:> >http://www.shef-ac-press.co.uk/catalog/bookdets.cfm?id=33491&bkref=308> >MarkRe the authorship of Hebrews:My understanding of the field is that the requirements are: to be a Jew,well grounded in the Hebrew OT; to be well educated and able to writeexcellent Greek; to be one of the second-generation of Christians (i.e.,not an apostle or other high-level eyewitness) but one who is active in thelife of the early church; to have a penetrating insight into the essence ofthe New Covenant in Jesus Christ.Paul is excluded on a number of grounds, which have already been canvassed.It is POSSIBLE that the author of Hebrews could be someone not otherwisementioned in the NT: but the kind of person who would write this epistle,with its personal references (e.g., “I want you to know that our brotherTimothy has been set free” 13:23) and its contents, would almost certainlyhave come to sufficient attention in the early church to be mentionedsomewhere in the pages of the NT.When last I looked into this matter, there were four candidates for thehonour, and it was thought that there was about a 95% probability that theauthor was one of these four.The candidates were (alphabetically): Apollos; Barnabas; Priscilla; Silas.Some people thought Priscilla excluded on principle (women do not writeScripture) or because of a masculine self-reference in the epistle; othersheld that the former is an a priori bias and that the latter can beexplained on the basis of general usage, so that Priscilla is as likely acandidate as any other.Is this still the state of play, or have there been recent developments?Regards,Ward PowersRev Dr B. Ward Powers Phone (International): 61-2-9799-750110 Grosvenor Crescent Phone (Australia): (02) 9799-7501SUMMER HILL NSW 2130 email: bwpowers at eagles.bbs.net.auAUSTRALIA.
Mac SoftwareIs Maj. Text easier to read?
Link Hudson Philip Williams another good scholarly discussion on the mention of Timothy by Paul in Hebrews It covers most of the issues we have discussed already from the Greek
Not a very well informed discussion. These seem never to have heard the case for Petrine authorship. But what is the point of discussing this when you ignore the case being made for Petrine authorship with Luke as scribe and also penning the postscript about Timothy? How can you challenge a position which you demonstrate that you haven’t even understood?
You are possible correct – most Pentecostal scholarship has rejected the authorship of Peter as non credible and more of a Catholic papal unction to establish Peter as key-holder of Rome
Troy Day yes, bigotry is an enemy of fair scholarship, maybe explaining why you are unable to read or understand, much less fairly consider my Petrine case.
And you really think, do you, that primacy of Rome, is in any way my motive?
Philip Williams you are calling names at ease again but remain without an answer to my arguments