James 2:13 Rob Matlack united_by_truth at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 1 14:45:49 EDT 2001
Parsing of Gal 3:11 Parsing of Gal 3:11 Steven Lo Vullo [mailto:doulos at appleisp.net] wrote:> > on 9/28/01 12:24 PM, Rob Matlack at united_by_truth at yahoo.com wrote:> > > The Majority Text of James 2:13b reads: KATAKAUXATAI ELEON KPISEWS> > How is that to be understood? In other words, what is the> function of the> > accusative ELEON and the genitive KPISEWS? Who or what is the subject of> > KATAKAUXATAI?> >> > Could it be something like: “He (God) exults (brags on) mercy> rather than judgment”?snip> It is the subject of KATAKAUCATAI. KRISEWS is the direct object,> since KATAKAUCAOMAI takes a genitive direct object (cf. Rom> 11.18). Verbs of> rule or subjugation sometimes do (Genitive of Subordination, a> lexico-semantic category). The idea here seems to be that mercy “triumphs”> over judgment (cf. NASB, NAS95, RSV, NRSV, NIV, NAB, NLT). I think this> meaning of KATAKAUCAOMAI derives from the fact that “boasting”> and “triumph”> are closely linked concepts.In a follow-up message Steve Lo Vullo later wrote:> One thing I forgot to say in my last post is that the difference between> ELEON (MT) and ELEOS (USBGNT, NA27) is that ELEON is a 2nd declensionneuter> noun and ELEOS is a third declension neuter noun. Either way, it is> nominative and the subject of KATAKAUCATAI.After consulting BDAG, Blass-DeBrunner, Moulton’s Analytical Lexicon, andthree or four other basic grammars and aids I have some questions. BDAGlists the neuter 3rd declension ELEOS, -OUS, TO and a later Greek formELEOS, hO. I assume that this is a second declension masculine parallelingthe two forms Moulton lists: ELEOS, -OUS, TO and ELEOS, -OU, hO. Bl-D #51discusses the two forms and, if I read it correctly, also seems to implythat ELEOS, hO is a second declension masculine noun. Based on all of thisELEON would seem to be a masculine accusative singular form as Moultonlabels it. So, how do we know that ELEON is nominative? Bl-D does mentionthe variant, but unless I looked there first how would I have known?Everything else points to accusative. Is one key that KATAKAUCAOMAI normallytakes a genitive form for a direct object? Where did Steve come up withELEON as a 2nd declension neuter? I found nothing that listed the formELEON, -OU, TO. Are there three forms of this word: ELEOS, -OUS, TO,ELEOS, -OU, hO, and ELEON, -OU, TO?Thanks.Rob Matlack united_by_truth at yahoo.comMinneapolis, KS”I can only say that I am nothing but a poor sinner, trusting in Christalone for salvation”–R. E. Lee”It is not our task to secure the triumph of truth, but merely to fight onit’s behalf.”–Blaise Pascal_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Parsing of Gal 3:11Parsing of Gal 3:11
James 2:13 Steven Lo Vullo themelios at earthlink.net
Mon Oct 1 21:31:26 EDT 2001
Parsing of Gal 3:11 Parsing of Gal 3:11 on 10/1/01 1:45 PM, Rob Matlack at united_by_truth at yahoo.com wrote:> After consulting BDAG, Blass-DeBrunner, Moulton’s Analytical Lexicon, and> three or four other basic grammars and aids I have some questions. BDAG> lists the neuter 3rd declension ELEOS, -OUS, TO and a later Greek form> ELEOS, hO. I assume that this is a second declension masculine paralleling> the two forms Moulton lists: ELEOS, -OUS, TO and ELEOS, -OU, hO. Bl-D #51> discusses the two forms and, if I read it correctly, also seems to imply> that ELEOS, hO is a second declension masculine noun. Based on all of this> ELEON would seem to be a masculine accusative singular form as Moulton> labels it. So, how do we know that ELEON is nominative? Bl-D does mention> the variant, but unless I looked there first how would I have known?> Everything else points to accusative. Is one key that KATAKAUCAOMAI normally> takes a genitive form for a direct object? Where did Steve come up with> ELEON as a 2nd declension neuter? I found nothing that listed the form> ELEON, -OU, TO. Are there three forms of this word: ELEOS, -OUS, TO,> ELEOS, -OU, hO, and ELEON, -OU, TO?I was giving the MT the benefit of the doubt, since the -ON ending may beneuter singular nominative and the masculine singular accusative ispractically unintelligible here. First, as I mentioned earlier,KATAKAUCAOMAI takes a genitive object. Second, there is no justification forthe idea “mercy *rather than* judgment,” since the bare genitive won’tsustain this meaning. Finally, the interplay between the two clauses yieldsthe idea that the person who shows no mercy will be judged without mercy;however, for the one who does show mercy, that mercy will triumph overjudgment since merciless judgment is only reserved for those who show nomercy.– Steven Lo VulloMadison, WI
Parsing of Gal 3:11Parsing of Gal 3:11
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Andrew Chapman andrew at theriveroflife.com
Wed Aug 11 06:23:44 EDT 2004
[] Question about the TNIGTC (The new internationalGreektestament commentary) [] ELEON in James 2:13b In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed), the second part of James 2:13 reads KATAKAUCATAI ELEON KRISEWS. (Nestle-Aland has ELEOS: mercy triumphs over judgement.) ELEON appears to be the accusative of the masculine form of ELEOS. Can anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative rather than the nominative?Thanks for your help.Andrew Chapman,Gateshead,England
[] Question about the TNIGTC (The new internationalGreektestament commentary)[] ELEON in James 2:13b
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Aug 11 07:03:05 EDT 2004
[] ELEON in James 2:13b [] ELEON in James 2:13b At 11:23 AM +0100 8/11/04, Andrew Chapman wrote:>In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed), the second part of James>2:13 reads KATAKAUCATAI ELEON KRISEWS. (Nestle-Aland has ELEOS: mercy>triumphs over judgement.) ELEON appears to be the accusative of the>masculine form of ELEOS. Can anyone explain to me why it is in the>accusative rather than the nominative?> This is indeed strange–and the more so in that the accusative of theneuter form of the noun is employed in the first half of the verse.According to BDAG, TO ELEOS is the standard classical form from Homerforwards, while hO ELEOS became the standard form in later Greek; but thereis no place for an accusative in the second half of this verse. I note thatTR has the nominative ELEOS in the second half.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] ELEON in James 2:13b[] ELEON in James 2:13b
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Eddie Mishoe edmishoe at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 11 17:09:19 EDT 2004
[] ELEON in James 2:13b [] ELEON in James 2:13b According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ELEOS isboth Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,can it?The URL is http://wwwusers.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)Eddie Mishoe— Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> the second part of James 2:13 reads KATAKAUCATAI> ELEON KRISEWS. (Nestle-Aland has ELEOS: mercy> triumphs over judgement.) ELEON appears to be the> accusative of the masculine form of ELEOS. Can> anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> rather than the nominative? > > Thanks for your help.> > Andrew Chapman,> Gateshead,> England> —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> =====Eddie MishoePastor__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
[] ELEON in James 2:13b[] ELEON in James 2:13b
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Arie Dirkzwager dirkzwager at pandora.be
Wed Aug 11 17:56:25 EDT 2004
[] ELEON in James 2:13b [] Slightly off-topic: Olympian ode in Pindaric Greek Eddie,It can be right – and it is right, for TO ELEOS is neuter. So nominative,accusative and vocative are identical.ArieDr. A. DirkzwagerHoeselt, Belgiume-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be—– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–Van: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>Aan: “Andrew Chapman” <andrew at theriveroflife.com>;< at lists.ibiblio.org>Verzonden: woensdag 11 augustus 2004 23:09Onderwerp: Re: [] ELEON in James 2:13b> According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ELEOS is> both Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,> can it?> The URL is http://www> users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)> > > Eddie Mishoe> > > — Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> > > In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> > the second part of James 2:13 reads KATAKAUCATAI> > ELEON KRISEWS. (Nestle-Aland has ELEOS: mercy> > triumphs over judgement.) ELEON appears to be the> > accusative of the masculine form of ELEOS. Can> > anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> > rather than the nominative? >> > Thanks for your help.> >> > Andrew Chapman,> > Gateshead,> > England> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > mailing list> > at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> >> > > =====> Eddie Mishoe> Pastor> > > > __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?> Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/>
[] ELEON in James 2:13b[] Slightly off-topic: Olympian ode in Pindaric Greek
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Don Doherty ddoherty at powerup.com.au
Thu Aug 12 08:43:04 EDT 2004
[] Josephus 1.10.2 [] ELEON in James 2:13b Yes, Arie’s analysis agrees with that of the Analytical Greek New Testamentof Timothy & Barbara Friberg (Baker) which shows the first ELEOS as neuteraccusative and the second ELEOS as neuter nominative. I’ve found the Fribergabsolutely invaluable in my first year NT Greek studies – I recommend itwholeheartedly to all fellow-students. (Also their companion AnalyticalLexicon of the New Testament)Don DohertyAlexandra HeadlandQLD Australiaemail: ddoherty at powerup.com.au—– Original Message —–From: “Arie Dirkzwager” <dirkzwager at pandora.be>To: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:56 AMSubject: Re: [] ELEON in James 2:13b> Eddie,> > It can be right – and it is right, for TO ELEOS is neuter. So nominative,> accusative and vocative are identical.> > Arie> > Dr. A. Dirkzwager> Hoeselt, Belgium> e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be> > —– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–> Van: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>> Aan: “Andrew Chapman” <andrew at theriveroflife.com>;> < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Verzonden: woensdag 11 augustus 2004 23:09> Onderwerp: Re: [] ELEON in James 2:13b> > > > According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ELEOS is> > both Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,> > can it?> > The URL is http://www> > users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)> >> >> > Eddie Mishoe> >> >> > — Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> >> > > In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> > > the second part of James 2:13 reads KATAKAUCATAI> > > ELEON KRISEWS. (Nestle-Aland has ELEOS: mercy> > > triumphs over judgement.) ELEON appears to be the> > > accusative of the masculine form of ELEOS. Can> > > anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> > > rather than the nominative? >> > > Thanks for your help.> > >> > > Andrew Chapman,> > > Gateshead,> > > England> > > —> > > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > > mailing list> > > at lists.ibiblio.org> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > >> >> >> > =====> > Eddie Mishoe> > Pastor> >> >> >> > __________________________________> > Do you Yahoo!?> > Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > mailing list> > at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> >> > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] Josephus 1.10.2[] ELEON in James 2:13b
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Don Doherty ddoherty at powerup.com.au
Thu Aug 12 11:01:09 EDT 2004
[] Pronouncing PILATOS [] Pronouncing PILATOS Further to my message below, I should also have consulted the AnalyticalLexicon I mentioned. It gives both TO ELEOS -OUS, and hO ELEOS -OU. Whichobviously means that either ELEOS (neut.) or ELEON (masc.) can serve as theaccusative, hence the alternative forms mentioned by Andrew Chapmanoriginally.Don DohertyAlexandra HeadlandQLD Australiaemail: ddoherty at powerup.com.au—– Original Message —–From: “Don Doherty” <ddoherty at powerup.com.au>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:43 PMSubject: Re: [] ELEON in James 2:13b> > Yes, Arie’s analysis agrees with that of the Analytical Greek NewTestament> of Timothy & Barbara Friberg (Baker) which shows the first ELEOS as neuter> accusative and the second ELEOS as neuter nominative. I’ve found theFriberg> absolutely invaluable in my first year NT Greek studies – I recommend it> wholeheartedly to all fellow-students. (Also their companion Analytical> Lexicon of the New Testament)> > Don Doherty> Alexandra Headland> QLD Australia> email: ddoherty at powerup.com.au> > —– Original Message —–> From: “Arie Dirkzwager” <dirkzwager at pandora.be>> To: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:56 AM> Subject: Re: [] ELEON in James 2:13b> > > > Eddie,> >> > It can be right – and it is right, for TO ELEOS is neuter. Sonominative,> > accusative and vocative are identical.> >> > Arie> >> > Dr. A. Dirkzwager> > Hoeselt, Belgium> > e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be> >> > —– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–> > Van: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>> > Aan: “Andrew Chapman” <andrew at theriveroflife.com>;> > < at lists.ibiblio.org>> > Verzonden: woensdag 11 augustus 2004 23:09> > Onderwerp: Re: [] ELEON in James 2:13b> >> >> > > According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ELEOS is> > > both Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,> > > can it?> > > The URL is http://www> > > users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)> > >> > >> > > Eddie Mishoe> > >> > >> > > — Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> > >> > > > In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> > > > the second part of James 2:13 reads KATAKAUCATAI> > > > ELEON KRISEWS. (Nestle-Aland has ELEOS: mercy> > > > triumphs over judgement.) ELEON appears to be the> > > > accusative of the masculine form of ELEOS. Can> > > > anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> > > > rather than the nominative? >> > > > Thanks for your help.> > > >> > > > Andrew Chapman,> > > > Gateshead,> > > > England> > > > —> > > > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > > > mailing list> > > > at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > >> > >> > >> > > =====> > > Eddie Mishoe> > > Pastor> > >> > >> > >> > > __________________________________> > > Do you Yahoo!?> > > Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!> > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> > > —> > > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > > mailing list> > > at lists.ibiblio.org> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > >> >> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > mailing list> > at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/>
[] Pronouncing PILATOS[] Pronouncing PILATOS
[] ELEON in James 2:13b Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Aug 12 11:13:24 EDT 2004
[] ELEON in James 2:13b [] Pronouncing PILATOS At 10:43 PM +1000 8/12/04, Don Doherty wrote:>Yes, Arie’s analysis agrees with that of the Analytical Greek New Testament>of Timothy & Barbara Friberg (Baker) which shows the first ELEOS as neuter>accusative and the second ELEOS as neuter nominative. I’ve found the Friberg>absolutely invaluable in my first year NT Greek studies – I recommend it>wholeheartedly to all fellow-students. (Also their companion Analytical>Lexicon of the New Testament)I would just warn against continued dependence upon this sort of aid;eventually one needs to learn the vocabulary.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] ELEON in James 2:13b[] Pronouncing PILATOS