James 2:13 Rob Matlack united_by_truth at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 1 14:45:49 εδτ 2001
Parsing of Gal 3:11 Parsing of Gal 3:11 Steven Lo Vullo [mailto:doulos at appleisp.net] wrote:> > on 9/28/01 12:24 πμ, Rob Matlack at united_by_truth at yahoo.com wrote:> > > The Majority Text of James 2:13b reads: κατακαυχαται ελεον κπισεωσ> > How is that to be understood? In other words, what is the> function of the> > accusative ελεον and the genitive κπισεωσ? Who or what is the subject of> > κατακαυχαται?> >> > Could it be something like: “He (God) exults (brags on) mercy> rather than judgment”?snip> It is the subject of κατακαυξαται. κρισεωσ is the direct object,> since κατακαυξαομαι takes a genitive direct object (cf. Rom> 11.18). Verbs of> rule or subjugation sometimes do (Genitive of Subordination, a> lexico-semantic category). The idea here seems to be that mercy “triumphs”> over judgment (cf. νασβ, NAS95, ρσβ, νρσβ, νιβ, ναβ, νλτ). ι think this> meaning of κατακαυξαομαι derives from the fact that “boasting”> and “triumph”> are closely linked concepts.In a follow-up message Steve Lo Vullo later wrote:> One thing ι forgot to say in my last post is that the difference between> ελεον (μτ) and ελεοσ (υσβγντ, NA27) is that ελεον is a 2nd declensionneuter> noun and ελεοσ is a third declension neuter noun. Either way, it is> nominative and the subject of κατακαυξαται.After consulting βδαγ, Blass-DeBrunner, Moulton’s Analytical Lexicon, andthree or four other basic grammars and aids ι have some questions. BDAGlists the neuter 3rd declension ελεοσ, –ουσ, το and a later Greek formELEOS, hO. ι assume that this is a second declension masculine parallelingthe two forms Moulton lists: ελεοσ, –ουσ, το and ελεοσ, –ου, hO. Bl-δ #51discusses the two forms and, if ι read it correctly, also seems to implythat ελεοσ, hO is a second declension masculine noun. Based on all of thisELEON would seem to be a masculine accusative singular form as Moultonlabels it. So, how do we know that ελεον is nominative? Bl-δ does mentionthe variant, but unless ι looked there first how would ι have known?Everything else points to accusative. Is one key that κατακαυξαομαι normallytakes a genitive form for a direct object? Where did Steve come up withELEON as a 2nd declension neuter? ι found nothing that listed the formELEON, –ου, το. Are there three forms of this word: ελεοσ, –ουσ, το,ελεοσ, –ου, hO, and ελεον, –ου, το?Thanks.Rob Matlack united_by_truth at yahoo.comMinneapolis, κσ“ι can only say that ι am nothing but a poor sinner, trusting in Christalone for salvation”–ρ. ε. Lee”It is not our task to secure the triumph of truth, but merely to fight onit’s behalf.”–Blaise Pascal_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Parsing of Gal 3:11Parsing of Gal 3:11
James 2:13 Steven Lo Vullo themelios at earthlink.net
Mon Oct 1 21:31:26 εδτ 2001
Parsing of Gal 3:11 Parsing of Gal 3:11 on 10/1/01 1:45 πμ, Rob Matlack at united_by_truth at yahoo.com wrote:> After consulting βδαγ, Blass-DeBrunner, Moulton’s Analytical Lexicon, and> three or four other basic grammars and aids ι have some questions. βδαγ> lists the neuter 3rd declension ελεοσ, –ουσ, το and a later Greek form> ελεοσ, hO. ι assume that this is a second declension masculine paralleling> the two forms Moulton lists: ελεοσ, –ουσ, το and ελεοσ, –ου, hO. Bl-δ #51> discusses the two forms and, if ι read it correctly, also seems to imply> that ελεοσ, hO is a second declension masculine noun. Based on all of this> ελεον would seem to be a masculine accusative singular form as Moulton> labels it. So, how do we know that ελεον is nominative? Bl-δ does mention> the variant, but unless ι looked there first how would ι have known?> Everything else points to accusative. Is one key that κατακαυξαομαι normally> takes a genitive form for a direct object? Where did Steve come up with> ελεον as a 2nd declension neuter? ι found nothing that listed the form> ελεον, –ου, το. Are there three forms of this word: ελεοσ, –ουσ, το,> ελεοσ, –ου, hO, and ελεον, –ου, το?ι was giving the μτ the benefit of the doubt, since the –ον ending may beneuter singular nominative and the masculine singular accusative ispractically unintelligible here. First, as ι mentioned earlier,κατακαυξαομαι takes a genitive object. Second, there is no justification forthe idea “mercy *rather than* judgment,” since the bare genitive won’tsustain this meaning. Finally, the interplay between the two clauses yieldsthe idea that the person who shows no mercy will be judged without mercy;however, for the one who does show mercy, that mercy will triumph overjudgment since merciless judgment is only reserved for those who show nomercy.– Steven Lo VulloMadison, ωι
[] ελεον in James 2:13b Andrew Chapman andrew at theriveroflife.com
Wed Aug 11 06:23:44 εδτ 2004
[] Question about the τνιγτξ (The new internationalGreektestament commentary) [] ελεον in James 2:13b In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed), the second part of James 2:13 reads κατακαυξαται ελεον κρισεωσ. (Nestle-Aland has ελεοσ: mercy triumphs over judgement.) ελεον appears to be the accusative of the masculine form of ελεοσ. Can anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative rather than the nominative?Thanks for your help.Andrew Chapman,Gateshead,England
[] Question about the τνιγτξ (The new internationalGreektestament commentary)[] ελεον in James 2:13b
[] ελεον in James 2:13b Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Aug 11 07:03:05 εδτ 2004
[] ελεον in James 2:13b [] ελεον in James 2:13b At 11:23 αμ +0100 8/11/04, Andrew Chapman wrote:>In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed), the second part of James>2:13 reads κατακαυξαται ελεον κρισεωσ. (Nestle-Aland has ελεοσ: mercy>triumphs over judgement.) ελεον appears to be the accusative of the>masculine form of ελεοσ. Can anyone explain to me why it is in the>accusative rather than the nominative?> This is indeed strange–and the more so in that the accusative of theneuter form of the noun is employed in the first half of the verse.According to βδαγ, το ελεοσ is the standard classical form from Homerforwards, while hO ελεοσ became the standard form in later Greek; but thereis no place for an accusative in the second half of this verse. ι note thatTR has the nominative ελεοσ in the second half.– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] ελεον in James 2:13b[] ελεον in James 2:13b
[] ελεον in James 2:13b Eddie Mishoe edmishoe at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 11 17:09:19 εδτ 2004
[] ελεον in James 2:13b [] ελεον in James 2:13b According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ελεοσ isboth Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,can it?The υρλ is http://wwwusers.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)Eddie Mishoe— Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> the second part of James 2:13 reads κατακαυξαται> ελεον κρισεωσ. (Nestle-Aland has ελεοσ: mercy> triumphs over judgement.) ελεον appears to be the> accusative of the masculine form of ελεοσ. Can> anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> rather than the nominative? > > Thanks for your help.> > Andrew Chapman,> Gateshead,> England> —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> =====Eddie MishoePastor__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
[] ελεον in James 2:13b Arie Dirkzwager dirkzwager at pandora.be
Wed Aug 11 17:56:25 εδτ 2004
[] ελεον in James 2:13b [] Slightly off-topic: Olympian ode in Pindaric Greek Eddie,It can be right – and it is right, for το ελεοσ is neuter. So nominative,accusative and vocative are identical.ArieDr. α. DirkzwagerHoeselt, Belgiume-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be—– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–Van: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>Aan: “Andrew Chapman” <andrew at theriveroflife.com>;< at lists.ibiblio.org>Verzonden: woensdag 11 augustus 2004 23:09Onderwerp: Re: [] ελεον in James 2:13b> According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ελεοσ is> both Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,> can it?> The υρλ is http://www> users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)> > > Eddie Mishoe> > > — Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> > > In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> > the second part of James 2:13 reads κατακαυξαται> > ελεον κρισεωσ. (Nestle-Aland has ελεοσ: mercy> > triumphs over judgement.) ελεον appears to be the> > accusative of the masculine form of ελεοσ. Can> > anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> > rather than the nominative? >> > Thanks for your help.> >> > Andrew Chapman,> > Gateshead,> > England> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > mailing list> > at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> >> > > =====> Eddie Mishoe> Pastor> > > > __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?> Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/>
[] ελεον in James 2:13b[] Slightly off-topic: Olympian ode in Pindaric Greek
[] ελεον in James 2:13b Don Doherty ddoherty at powerup.com.au
Thu Aug 12 08:43:04 εδτ 2004
[] Josephus 1.10.2 [] ελεον in James 2:13b Yes, Arie’s analysis agrees with that of the Analytical Greek New Testamentof Timothy & Barbara Friberg (Baker) which shows the first ελεοσ as neuteraccusative and the second ελεοσ as neuter nominative. ι‘ve found the Fribergabsolutely invaluable in my first year ντ Greek studies – ι recommend itwholeheartedly to all fellow-students. (Also their companion AnalyticalLexicon of the New Testament)Don DohertyAlexandra HeadlandQLD Australiaemail: ddoherty at powerup.com.au—– Original Message —–From: “Arie Dirkzwager” <dirkzwager at pandora.be>To: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:56 AMSubject: Re: [] ελεον in James 2:13b> Eddie,> > It can be right – and it is right, for το ελεοσ is neuter. So nominative,> accusative and vocative are identical.> > Arie> > Dr. α. Dirkzwager> Hoeselt, Belgium> e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be> > —– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–> Van: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>> Aan: “Andrew Chapman” <andrew at theriveroflife.com>;> < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Verzonden: woensdag 11 augustus 2004 23:09> Onderwerp: Re: [] ελεον in James 2:13b> > > > According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ελεοσ is> > both Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,> > can it?> > The υρλ is http://www> > users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)> >> >> > Eddie Mishoe> >> >> > — Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> >> > > In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> > > the second part of James 2:13 reads κατακαυξαται> > > ελεον κρισεωσ. (Nestle-Aland has ελεοσ: mercy> > > triumphs over judgement.) ελεον appears to be the> > > accusative of the masculine form of ελεοσ. Can> > > anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> > > rather than the nominative? >> > > Thanks for your help.> > >> > > Andrew Chapman,> > > Gateshead,> > > England> > > —> > > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > > mailing list> > > at lists.ibiblio.org> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > >> >> >> > =====> > Eddie Mishoe> > Pastor> >> >> >> > __________________________________> > Do you Yahoo!?> > Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > mailing list> > at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> >> > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] Josephus 1.10.2[] ελεον in James 2:13b
Thu Aug 12 11:01:09 εδτ 2004
[] Pronouncing πιλατοσ [] Pronouncing πιλατοσ Further to my message below, ι should also have consulted the AnalyticalLexicon ι mentioned. It gives both το ελεοσ –ουσ, and hO ελεοσ –ου. Whichobviously means that either ελεοσ (neut.) or ελεον (masc.) can serve as theaccusative, hence the alternative forms mentioned by Andrew Chapmanoriginally.Don DohertyAlexandra HeadlandQLD Australiaemail: ddoherty at powerup.com.au—– Original Message —–From: “Don Doherty” <ddoherty at powerup.com.au>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:43 PMSubject: Re: [] ελεον in James 2:13b> > Yes, Arie’s analysis agrees with that of the Analytical Greek NewTestament> of Timothy & Barbara Friberg (Baker) which shows the first ελεοσ as neuter> accusative and the second ελεοσ as neuter nominative. ι‘ve found theFriberg> absolutely invaluable in my first year ντ Greek studies – ι recommend it> wholeheartedly to all fellow-students. (Also their companion Analytical> Lexicon of the New Testament)> > Don Doherty> Alexandra Headland> θλδ Australia> email: ddoherty at powerup.com.au> > —– Original Message —–> From: “Arie Dirkzwager” <dirkzwager at pandora.be>> To: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:56 αμ> Subject: Re: [] ελεον in James 2:13b> > > > Eddie,> >> > It can be right – and it is right, for το ελεοσ is neuter. Sonominative,> > accusative and vocative are identical.> >> > Arie> >> > Dr. α. Dirkzwager> > Hoeselt, Belgium> > e-mail dirkzwager at pandora.be> >> > —– Oorspronkelijk bericht —–> > Van: “Eddie Mishoe” <edmishoe at yahoo.com>> > Aan: “Andrew Chapman” <andrew at theriveroflife.com>;> > < at lists.ibiblio.org>> > Verzonden: woensdag 11 augustus 2004 23:09> > Onderwerp: Re: [] ελεον in James 2:13b> >> >> > > According to a parsing guide on the Internet, ελεοσ is> > > both Nominative and Accusative! That can’t be right,> > > can it?> > > The υρλ is http://www> > > users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=2002)> > >> > >> > > Eddie Mishoe> > >> > >> > > — Andrew Chapman <andrew at theriveroflife.com> wrote:> > >> > > > In the Majority Text (Hodges and Farstad 2nd ed),> > > > the second part of James 2:13 reads κατακαυξαται> > > > ελεον κρισεωσ. (Nestle-Aland has ελεοσ: mercy> > > > triumphs over judgement.) ελεον appears to be the> > > > accusative of the masculine form of ελεοσ. Can> > > > anyone explain to me why it is in the accusative> > > > rather than the nominative? >> > > > Thanks for your help.> > > >> > > > Andrew Chapman,> > > > Gateshead,> > > > England> > > > —> > > > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > > > mailing list> > > > at lists.ibiblio.org> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > >> > >> > >> > > =====> > > Eddie Mishoe> > > Pastor> > >> > >> > >> > > __________________________________> > > Do you Yahoo!?> > > Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!> > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail> > > —> > > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > > mailing list> > > at lists.ibiblio.org> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > >> >> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> > mailing list> > at lists.ibiblio.org> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/>
[] Pronouncing πιλατοσ[] Pronouncing πιλατοσ
Thu Aug 12 11:13:24 εδτ 2004
[] ελεον in James 2:13b [] Pronouncing πιλατοσ At 10:43 πμ +1000 8/12/04, Don Doherty wrote:>Yes, Arie’s analysis agrees with that of the Analytical Greek New Testament>of Timothy & Barbara Friberg (Baker) which shows the first ελεοσ as neuter>accusative and the second ελεοσ as neuter nominative. ι‘ve found the Friberg>absolutely invaluable in my first year ντ Greek studies – ι recommend it>wholeheartedly to all fellow-students. (Also their companion Analytical>Lexicon of the New Testament)ι would just warn against continued dependence upon this sort of aid;eventually one needs to learn the vocabulary.– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] ελεον in James 2:13b[] Pronouncing πιλατοσ