[] James 5:16B waldo slusher waldoslusher at yahoo.com
Mon May 12 22:21:18 EDT 2003
[] Figures of Speech in the Bible [] James 5:16B POLU ISCUEI DEHSIS DIKAIOU ENERGOUMENHCan this mean something like:the prayer of a righteous man avails much because heenergizes it (with action)?Taking ENERGOUMENH as reason or cause.=====Waldo SlusherCalgary, AB__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.http://search.yahoo.com
[] Figures of Speech in the Bible[] James 5:16B
[] James 5:16B Clwinbery at aol.com Clwinbery at aol.com
Mon May 12 22:37:35 EDT 2003
[] James 5:16B [] James 5:16B Followup Waldo Slusher>POLU ISCUEI DEHSIS DIKAIOU ENERGOUMENH>Can this mean something like:>the prayer of a righteous man avails much because he>energizes it (with action)?>Taking ENERGOUMENH as reason or cause.Waldo, ENERGOUMENH agrees with DEHSIS in case gender and number. Therefore DEHSIS is the subject of the action of the participle not the righteous man. This is a circumstantial participle and seems best to me to be translated “the prayer of a righteous person being effective avails much” or “The effective prayer of a righteous person avails much.”Carlton WinberyLouisiana College
[] James 5:16B[] James 5:16B Followup
[] James 5:16B Followup waldo slusher waldoslusher at yahoo.com
Tue May 13 17:04:11 EDT 2003
[] James 5:16B [] Re: Figures of Speech in the Bible (Matthew Williams) Sir: — Clwinbery at aol.com wrote:> Waldo Slusher> > >POLU ISCUEI DEHSIS DIKAIOU ENERGOUMENH> > >Can this mean something like:> > >the prayer of a righteous man avails much because> he> >energizes it (with action)?> > >Taking ENERGOUMENH as reason or cause.> > Waldo, ENERGOUMENH agrees with DEHSIS in case gender> and number. Therefore > DEHSIS is the subject of the action of the> participle not the righteous man. > This is a circumstantial participle and seems best> to me to be translated > “the prayer of a righteous person being effective> avails much” or “The > effective prayer of a righteous person avails much.”Thank you for this reply. What is the semantical forceof ENERGOUMENH as it relates to DEHSIS, given yourtranslation of “effective….” In other words, WHATmakes it effective? Is that unstated in this text orcan some semantical force of ENERGOUMENH answer thisquestion? I hope I am being clear enough with mythoughts.=====Waldo SlusherCalgary, AB__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.http://search.yahoo.com
[] James 5:16B[] Re: Figures of Speech in the Bible (Matthew Williams)
[] James 5:16B Followup Clwinbery at aol.com Clwinbery at aol.com
Wed May 14 17:37:59 EDT 2003
[] Figures of Speech in the Bible [] ASQENESTERWi in 1Peter 3 In a message dated 5/13/2003 4:04:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, waldoslusher at yahoo.com writes:> Sir: > > — Clwinbery at aol.com wrote:> > Waldo Slusher> > > > >POLU ISCUEI DEHSIS DIKAIOU ENERGOUMENH> > > > >Can this mean something like:> > > > >the prayer of a righteous man avails much because> > he> > >energizes it (with action)?> > > > >Taking ENERGOUMENH as reason or cause.> > > > Waldo, ENERGOUMENH agrees with DEHSIS in case gender> > and number. Therefore > > DEHSIS is the subject of the action of the> > participle not the righteous man. > > This is a circumstantial participle and seems best> > to me to be translated > > “the prayer of a righteous person being effective> > avails much” or “The > > effective prayer of a righteous person avails much.”> > Thank you for this reply. What is the semantical force> of ENERGOUMENH as it relates to DEHSIS, given your> translation of “effective….” In other words, WHAT> makes it effective? Is that unstated in this text or> can some semantical force of ENERGOUMENH answer this> question? I hope I am being clear enough with my> thoughts.> The participle grammatically makes an assertion about the noun that it modifies and also indicates a circumstance that relates to the main verb. I would say that it says that the prayer of a DIKAIOU (person) is capable of bringing something about. Carlton WinberyLA College
[] Figures of Speech in the Bible[] ASQENESTERWi in 1Peter 3
what does this mean to you ? RichardAnna Boyce
James 5:16 All of James’s readers (BELIEVERS) should be prepared for that open and honest confession of sin which was a necessary prelude to healing (that you may be healed). But the command to confess your trespasses to one another is still based within James’s discussion of sickness and should not be stretched into a general admonition. There is no biblical command for believers to publicly confess all our known sins. Confession to God is necessary in regard to any sin one is aware of, and should be made in conformity with 1 John 1:9. But only here in Scripture is there a command to make confession to one another and this lies fully within the parameters of the need for prayer by the elders and fellow Christians (pray for one another) that God will make the sick person well.
It seems apparent that James was not thinking in vv 14-15 of instantaneous healing after the elders have prayed. Rather, he is thinking of collective prayer, both by the elders and the congregation, and he is thinking of ultimate, rather than immediate, recovery. But if the sick person has reason to believe that God’s hand of discipline is on him, he should be prepared to acknowledge his failures openly so as to clear the path for effective prayer.
Prayer can work wonders! Not, however, if it comes from an unrighteous heart, or if it is shallow, glib, and superficial. Rather, it avails much when it is an effective, fervent prayer expressed by a righteous man. The words effective, fervent both translate a single Greek verb form (energoumen¢) which is difficult to render precisely in English. The familiar English words used by the NKJV are on target, but since the verb “energize” is from the Greek verb in question, James’s statement might be paraphrased as “a spiritually energetic prayer” or “a prayer energized by God.” The point is that such prayer is more deeply at work than prayers that are verbalized in a casual or perfunctory state of mind. James is speaking of prayer that is Spirit-wrought and that comes from the heart and soul. Such prayer can be offered only by a righteous man, so that James implies that if the sick man will indeed turn from any sins he has committed, he could even pray effectively for himself. In fact, this is precisely what righteous King Hezekiah did in a time of near-fatal illness (2 Kings 20:2-6), though his sickness was not related to sin so far as is known.
RichardAnna Boyce I;ve read your copy paste before but what is your personal interpretation for this?
if the sick believer has reason to believe that God’s hand of discipline is on him, he should be prepared to acknowledge his failures openly so as to clear the path for “a prayer energized by God.” If the sick man will indeed turn from any sins he has committed, he could pray effectively for himself.