Jn 8:57b Andrew T. Dolan, MA, ABD dolan at lasalle.edu
Fri Dec 24 09:33:25 EST 1999
John 8:58 THEOS HGAPHSEN For those hot on 8:58, perhaps help can be derived from Tjitze Baarda, “John8:57B. The Contribution of the Diatessaron of Tatian,” Novum Testamentum38.4 (1996): 336-343. My memory of Baarda’s point is foggy, but the Jn8:58 thread reminded me of this article.Andrew T. Dolan, Ph.D. Cand.Assistant Professor of TheologyFrancis Hall 232Alvernia College400 St. Bernardine StreetReading, PA 19607-1799(610) 796-8435dolan at lasalle.eduhttp://www.lasalle.edu/~dolan/alvernia.htm
John 8:58THEOS HGAPHSEN
Jn 8:57b GregStffrd at aol.com GregStffrd at aol.com
Fri Dec 24 11:06:32 EST 1999
THEOS HGAPHSEN John 8:58 (I am; Does the Hebrew reveal?) In a message dated 12/24/99 6:37:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, dolan at lasalle.edu writes:<< For those hot on 8:58, perhaps help can be derived from Tjitze Baarda, “John 8:57B. The Contribution of the Diatessaron of Tatian,” Novum Testamentum 38.4 (1996): 336-343. My memory of Baarda’s point is foggy, but the Jn 8:58 thread reminded me of this article. Andrew T. Dolan, Ph.D. Cand. Assistant Professor of Theology >>Dear Andrew:Yes, Baarda’s article is a fine read. Rather than “you have seen Abraham,” one could gather from Baarda’s research that it is more in line with the context to read, along with aleph, P75, Syriac witnesses, 070, Sahidic and Coptic manuscripts, “and Abraham has seen you?” (KAI ABRAAM hEWRAKEN SE). This does in fact more closely reflect what Jesus actually said (“Abraham say my day…”). Of course, the reading, “You have seen Abraham?” may simply be the result of the Jews (again) misquoting and misinterpreting what Jesus said. See Baarda, “John 8:57B: The Contribution of the Diatessaron of Tatian,” 336.Best Regards,Greg Stafford
THEOS HGAPHSENJohn 8:58 (I am; Does the Hebrew reveal?)
John 8:57-59 Abraham died about two thousand years before this date. The crowd thus reasonably asks, surely sarcastically, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” They know that Jesus could not possibly have seen Abraham.
There are lots of things that Jesus could have said. In His preincarnate form He indeed met with Abraham on multiple occasions (e.g., Gen 15; 17:1-22; 18). However, Jesus doesn’t mention those incidents. Instead, He alludes to an incident in which He met with Moses: “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Jesus is not only claiming to precede Abraham in time, but also to be Yahweh (“I AM”) who met with Moses at the burning bush (see Ex 3:14).
Abraham believed in Jesus. Why didn’t those who claimed to be his children?
8:59. Their reaction is predictable: they took up stones to throw at Him. The chapter has come full circle. Like bookends the chapter opens and closes with threatened, but unfulfilled, stonings. Jesus uses His supernatural powers and slips through the midst of them unharmed, thwarting their efforts to kill Him.