Jude 4

[] Jude 4: τουτο το κριμα Joel Barnes joel at barnzee.ca
Wed Dec 15 12:51:57 εστ 2004

[] λιθον ζωντα and λιθοι ζωντεσ in 1 Peter 2:4 & 5 [] λιθον ζωντα and λιθοι ζωντεσ in 1 Peter 2:4 & 5 Dear Everyone,It was recently suggested to me that κριμα in Jude 4 means *choice* or*decision* and is a reference to the choice of the τινεσ ανθρωποι toinfilitrate the Church. Is there any merit to this suggestion? ι haven’t anylexical suppport for this interpretation; however, my lexical resources arelimited.In addition, ι found a helpful post on the subject from Clay, dated November24, 2001:http://www.ibiblio.org//test-archives/html3/2001-11/8086.htmlIn that post, Clay indicated that τουτο may not be anaphoric in Jude 4 butrather serving a *presentational function.* Just to clarify, does this termessentially mean that τουτο may function cataphorically in Jude 4?Kind regards, Joel –Joel Barnes, β.Sc.Kin., μ.Sc. Executive Assistant to the DeanCollege of KinesiologyUniversity of Saskatchewan87 Campus DriveSaskatoon, SaskatchewanS7N 5B2Canada 306.966.1113 (voice)306.966.6464 (fax)joel.barnes at usask.ca (email) > —–Original Message—–> From: -bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > -request at lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:00 αμ> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14> > > Send mailing list submissions to> at lists.ibiblio.org> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> or, via email, send a message with subject or body ‘help’ to> -request at lists.ibiblio.org> > You can reach the person managing the list at> -owner at lists.ibiblio.org> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific than “Re: Contents of digest…”> > > Today’s Topics:> > 1. τινι LOGWi – ι Cor. 15:2 (Eric Weiss)> 2. ρε: βδαγ, Louw and Nida, or τδντ? (Brent Hudson)> 3. Re: τινι LOGWi – ι Cor. 15:2 (Harold ρ. Holmyard ιιι)> 4. Bible Software (Eric Biggs)> 5. Re: Bible Software (Carl ω. Conrad)> 6. Re: John 12:41 (Harold ρ. Holmyard ιιι)> 7. Check out a looming lurker’s γντ site! (Carl ω. Conrad)> 8. Re: Living Koine Greek (Richard Ghilardi)> 9. “Christ is born” in Greek (Eric Weiss)> 10. Nota Bene (Jeff Cockrell)> 11. ρε: Nota Bene (Brent Hudson)> 12. ρε: Nota Bene (Deborah Ann Taylor)> 13. ρε: Nota Bene (Carl ω. Conrad)> > > ———————————————————————-> > Message: 1> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:00:39 -0800 (ψτ)> From: Eric Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>> Subject: [] τινι LOGWi – ι Cor. 15:2> To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <20041213170039.20713.qmail at web61002.mail.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > ι Corinthians 15:> 1. γνωριζω δε hUMIN, αδελφοι, > το ευαγγελιον hO ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN, > hO και παρελαβετε, > εη hW και hESTHKATE, > 2. δι‘ hOU και SWiZESQE, > τινι LOGWi ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN ει κατεξετε, > εκτοσ ει μη EIKHi επιστευσατε.> > ι‘ve looked at βδαγ and βδφ and Robertson (Greek > Grammar/Historical Research) and Perschbacher’s > ντ Greek Syntax, and am still having a bit of trouble > understanding how best to translate τινι LOGWi and > how it functions here. τινι usually means “(by/with) > what/whom?” and the grammars mention its use for > an “indirect question.” Yet others suggest that here it > functions as a relative pronoun, which is how ι and > most translations understand it. ι think Robertson says > that it should not be taken as subordinate to ει > κατεξετε, but ι‘m not sure ι understand what he means > by that. Zerwick says it’s an “indirect interrogative,” but > if so, how do you translate it so it has the sense of being > a question?> > > Eric σ. Weiss> > > > ———————————> Do you Yahoo!?> Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.> > ——————————> > Message: 2> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:22:04 -0400> From: “Brent Hudson” <brent at riveroflifembchurch.com>> Subject: ρε: [] βδαγ, Louw and Nida, or τδντ?> To: “‘Biblical Greek'” < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <200412131721.iBDHLa222458 at ns1.launchdns.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=”Windows-1252″> > The βδαγ lexicon is a boxed set from Logos and it cannot be > unlocked via the internet. You need to call their sales > people and they will send you a ξδ.> >From what ι understand, this is a restriction placed on Logos by the> publisher. Anchor Bible Dictionary has the same restrictions.> > Brent Hudson> > > > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:36:19 -0800 (ψτ)> From: Paul Buscher <infamous_pb at yahoo.com>> Subject: βδαγ, Louw and Nida, or τδντ?> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> > Thanks everyone for your replies.> > ι just found out that Logos χ also comes with Liddell and > Scott’s abridged Lexicon ανδ James Swanson’s “α Dictionary of > Biblical Languages – Greek ντ.”> > However, when ι try to unlock the βδαγ 3rd Ed. in the Logos > Software, it says that the price is “Unknown.” ι guess ι‘ll > have to contact Libronix.> > Thanks again everyone.> > Paul Buscher> __________________________________> Do you Yahoo!?> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo> > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ > mailing list at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > —> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by αβγ anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 – Release Date: 12/9/2004> > > —> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by αβγ anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 – Release Date: 12/9/2004> > > > > ——————————> > Message: 3> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:52:58 -0600> From: “Harold ρ. Holmyard ιιι” <hholmyard at ont.com>> Subject: Re: [] τινι LOGWi – ι Cor. 15:2> To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <a06020400bde38001bb3b@[205.242.61.201]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” ; format=”flowed”> > Dear Eric,> > &gt;ι Corinthians 15:> >1. γνωριζω δε hUMIN, αδελφοι,> &gt;το ευαγγελιον hO ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN,> >hO και παρελαβετε,> &gt;εη hW και hESTHKATE,> >2. δι‘ hOU και SWiZESQE,> &gt;τινι LOGWi ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN ει κατεξετε,> &gt;εκτοσ ει μη EIKHi επιστευσατε.> >> &gt;ι‘ve looked at βδαγ and βδφ and Robertson (Greek Grammar/Historical > >Research) and Perschbacher’s ντ Greek Syntax, and am still > having a bit > >of trouble understanding how best to translate τινι LOGWi and> >how it functions here. τινι usually means “(by/with)> >what/whom?” and the grammars mention its use for> >an “indirect question.” Yet others suggest that here it> >functions as a relative pronoun, which is how ι and> >most translations understand it. ι think Robertson says> >that it should not be taken as subordinate to ει> &gt;κατεξετε, but ι‘m not sure ι understand what he means> >by that. Zerwick says it’s an “indirect interrogative,” but> >if so, how do you translate it so it has the sense of being> >a question?> > Tis is either an interrogative pronoun or an indefinite pronoun. Here > it seems pointed as an interrogative pronoun, but that can substitute > for the relative pronoun. It does not seem to be functioning > interrogatively. ι believe τινι LOGWi is somewhat appositional to hOU > three words earlier, as kind of a return to Paul’s initial word το > ευαγγελιον hO ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN. By putting the relative pronoun > first in the line τινι LOGWi ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN ει κατεξετε, Paul > mimics the structure of the previous four verbal clauses. So the word > order τινι LOGWi ευηγγελισαμην hUMIN ει κατεξετε is probably done for > stylistic reasons, although it is not the most natural otherwise. ι > do believe that the dative in τινι LOGWi functions in relation to > κατεξετε. If you hold fast “to which word” ι preached to you, you > will be saved.> > Yours,> Harold Holmyard> > > > > ——————————> > Message: 4> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:14:17 -0800> From: “Eric Biggs” <ericb at gracechurchreno.org>> Subject: [] Bible Software> To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <000601c4e13f$92c50070$0f01a8c0 at workstation1>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=”iso-8859-1″> > Hello List-Members,> > ι thought ι recently read something about a review of Bible > software, where one was able to do grammatical searches. So > ι checked the archives from the last few months and didn’t > find anything concerning this subject, but ι might have > missed it seeing that it could be worded differently than ι > think as a subject title.> > The reason ι ask is because ι am a student that is very > zealous to start searching for third class conditional > sentences, genitive absolutes etc. through the Greek texts > and maybe if it is available through other writings, such as > the apostolic fathers. Also does any software allow you to > diagram sentences? With the latest thread on this subject ι > have asked Santa to fill my stocking with such materials from > Grassmick or Fee, but if it is possible to do diagramming on > with a computer program, that would be cool!> > ι use a πξ not a Mac, so ι was wondering, “What is the best > stuff out their?”> > Thank you,> Eric Biggs> Zealous Student> Reno, νβ> > ——————————> > Message: 5> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:31:25 -0500> From: “Carl ω. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>> Subject: Re: [] Bible Software> To: “Eric Biggs” <ericb at gracechurchreno.org>> Cc: at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ιδ: <p06200710bde38fd6e0f9@[207.69.3.167]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii”> > At 10:14 αμ -0800 12/13/04, Eric Biggs wrote:> >Hello List-Members,> >> &gt;ι thought ι recently read something about a review of Bible > software, > >where one was able to do grammatical searches. So ι checked the > >archives from the last few months and didn’t find anything > concerning > >this subject, but ι might have missed it seeing that it > could be worded > >differently than ι think as a subject title.> >> >The reason ι ask is because ι am a student that is very zealous to > >start searching for third class conditional sentences, genitive > >absolutes etc. through the Greek texts and maybe if it is available > >through other writings, such as the apostolic fathers. Also > does any > >software allow you to diagram sentences? With the latest thread on > >this subject ι have asked Santa to fill my stocking with > such materials > >from Grassmick or Fee, but if it is possible to do > diagramming on with > >a computer program, that would be cool!> >> &gt;ι use a πξ not a Mac, so ι was wondering, “What is the best > stuff out > >their?”> > To find out what is the best stuff “out there”–or to use the > current pharmaceutical ad jargon, “what’s right for you,” you > should betake yourself to Ruben Gomez’ excellent site, Bible > Software Review and do some research there; you’ll have > considerable opportunity to see comparative pluses and > minuses of the variety of programs available for different > platforms. Do go and make an inspection:> > http://www.bsreview.org/> — > > Carl ω. Conrad> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243 > cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> ωωω: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/> > > ——————————> > Message: 6> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:55:30 -0600> From: “Harold ρ. Holmyard ιιι” <hholmyard at ont.com>> Subject: Re: [] John 12:41> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ιδ: <a06020400bde3b1c277a2@[205.242.61.25]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii” ; format=”flowed”> > Dear Dony,> > >Gospel of John 12:41: Could it be determined from the text if the> >comment in this verse was made by Christ during his exposition or > >later on by John as he was telling the story and perhaps commenting > >on it?> > It is clear from the preceding narrative that it is John writing > about Jesus, beginning in verse 37:> > John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet > they believed not on him:> > Yours,> Harold Holmyard> > > > ——————————> > Message: 7> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:24:43 -0500> From: “Carl ω. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>> Subject: [] Check out a looming lurker’s γντ site!> To: “Biblical Greek” < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <p06200714bde3e057bf17@[207.69.3.167]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii”> > α recent newbie on the list, Zack Hubert, e-mailed me today > and told me about what he’s put together at his site entitled > “α home for fellow biblical Greek students” (although he says > he might change the name of it. It’s at> > http://www.zhubert.com/> > He’s used James Tauber’s MorphGNT and produced a lovely > interface to display a verse or a chapter at a time of any > text in the γντ and to display parsing and a simple gloss for > any word over which the mouse hovers; click on the word and > you’ll get graphs showing every instance of the particular > form in the γντ and another showing every form of the root of > the word in the γντ as well as the frequency of the form or > of the root in different γντ books. That’s goes pretty far to > showing as much about the nouns, adjectives, nouns or whatnot > as expensive Bible programs show–and the Unicode text is > large and neat. He’s asking for feedback and he insists > there’s more to come in the way of improvements.> > Check it out and send your feedback not to me, but to Zack:> > “Hubert, Zack” <zhubert at amazon.com>> > Here’s his own blurb from the front page of his site: > =============== The Greek New Testament Submitted by zhubert > on Tue, 12/07/2004 – 00:08. Complete γντ online – source text > is from jtauber, based on Nestle Aland 26 Parsing – available > for every word, just hover over the word with your mouse Word > Detail Page – click on a word while reading and see detailed > information about that word Word Study – from the detail > page, you can conduct a study on every use of the form or the > root Graphical Occurrence – from the word detail page, shows > occurrences of both root and form by book Basic Root > Definitions – simple lexicon entries, right now very woeful, > from Perseus…soon you will be able to correct these! > =================> — > > Carl ω. Conrad> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243 > cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> ωωω: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/> > > ——————————> > Message: 8> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:02:38 -0500> From: Richard Ghilardi <qodeshlayhvh at juno.com>> Subject: Re: [] Living Koine Greek> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ιδ: <20041214.005450.-120291.5.qodeshlayhvh at juno.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > > Hi Folks,> > “Greek To Me” is now being sold at auction on e-bay. Just > search on “Greek To Me” without the quotes and you’re sure to > find it. βτω, ι‘m not selling it.> > Yours in His grace,> > Richard Ghilardi – qodeshlayhvh at juno.com> New Haven, Connecticut υσα> > > ——————————> > Message: 9> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 05:42:45 -0800 (ψτ)> From: Eric Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>> Subject: [] “Christ is born” in Greek> To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <20041214134246.45261.qmail at web61005.mail.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii> > (please excuse and/or correct my possible misspellings)> > At Easter, the Greek Orthodox greeting is ξριστοσ ανεσθ > (“Christ is risen!”), with the response αληθωσ ανεσθ > (“Indeed, He is risen.”).> > 1. What is the parsing for this form (assuming it’s Koine, > and not modern > Greek) – is it aor. act. ind. 3. sing., i.e., “Christ rose”? > If so, why isn’t the > perfect used, i.e., ανεσθκε(ν)? If ανεσθ is actually a modern Greek > perfect, then would the Koine form of this greeting be ανεσθκε(ν)?> > 2. What would be a comparable Christmas greeting of “Christ is born!” > a. Would one use the aorist passive (assuming the aorist is > what is or > should be used with “Christ is risen”) – i.e., “ξριστοσ εγεννηθη / > ετεξθη“?> – ορ – > b. Would one use the perfect passive – i.e., “ξριστοσ γεγεννηται / > τετεγται“?> > 3. What is the actual Greek Orthodox Christmas Greeting? One Website > says “Kala Christouyenna” which ι assume is “Happy Christ’s birth” > – καλα ξριστου γεννα? Would this be the Koine form as well, > or would a different word than καλα be used; would ξριστουγεννα > be one word as well?> > > > Eric σ. Weiss> > > > ———————————> Do you Yahoo!?> All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!> > ——————————> > Message: 10> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:17:17 -0500> From: “Jeff Cockrell” <jeffcockrell at hotmail.com>> Subject: [] Nota Bene> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ιδ: <BAY21-F8CF37674D89EB3C45CEBCD3AC0 at phx.gbl>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed> > Is anyone using Nota Bene for Windows? ι‘m thinking about > purchasing the > program, but wanted some information on someone who has > actually used the > program.> > If you use Nota Bene, please tell me your opinion, good or > bad. Please > reply off list.> > Thanks!> > Jeff Cockrell> > > > > ——————————> > Message: 11> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:36:57 -0400> From: “Brent Hudson” <brent at riveroflifembchurch.com>> Subject: ρε: [] Nota Bene> To: “‘Jeff Cockrell'” <jeffcockrell at hotmail.com>,> < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <200412141536.iBEFaTm01933 at ns1.launchdns.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=”iso-8859-1″> > If this is to be taken off-list, please include me in the reply. > > ι used Nota Bene back in the δοσ days but gradually stopped > using it once ι moved to Windows. > > Brent Hudson> Moncton, νβ> Canada> > > > —–Original Message—–> From: -bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > [mailto:-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Cockrell> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:17 αμ> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: [] Nota Bene> > Is anyone using Nota Bene for Windows? ι‘m thinking about > purchasing the program, but wanted some information on > someone who has actually used the program.> > If you use Nota Bene, please tell me your opinion, good or > bad. Please reply off list.> > Thanks!> > Jeff Cockrell> > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ > mailing list at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > —> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by αβγ anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 – Release Date: 12/9/2004> > > —> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by αβγ anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 – Release Date: 12/9/2004> > > > > ——————————> > Message: 12> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:00:45 -0500> From: “Deborah Ann Taylor” <duffy at diadic.com>> Subject: ρε: [] Nota Bene> To: “‘Brent Hudson'” <brent at riveroflifembchurch.com>,”‘Jeff> Cockrell'” <jeffcockrell at hotmail.com>, > < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Message-ιδ: <000301c4e1f6$13dfe060$2500a8c0 at αλφονσε>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=”iso-8859-1″> > Actually, ι was thinking that this is a thread a number of us > might find helpful. ι‘d appreciate replies on list if that > is οκ with the moderators.> > Duffy> Ottawa, Ontario> Canada> > > —–Original Message—–> > From: -bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > [mailto:-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Brent Hudson> > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 10:37 αμ> > To: ‘Jeff Cockrell’; at lists.ibiblio.org> > Subject: ρε: [] Nota Bene> >> >> > If this is to be taken off-list, please include me in the reply.> >> &gt; ι used Nota Bene back in the δοσ days but gradually stopped > using it > > once ι moved to Windows.> >> > Brent Hudson> > Moncton, νβ> > Canada> >> >> >> > —–Original Message—–> > From: -bounces at lists.ibiblio.org > > [mailto:-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of > Jeff Cockrell> > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 11:17 αμ> > To: at lists.ibiblio.org> > Subject: [] Nota Bene> >> > Is anyone using Nota Bene for Windows? ι‘m thinking about > purchasing > > the program, but wanted some information on someone who has> > actually used the> > program.> >> > If you use Nota Bene, please tell me your opinion, good or bad. > > Please reply off list.> >> > Thanks!> >> > Jeff Cockrell> >> >> > —> > home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ > mailing list > > at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > —> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by αβγ anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 – Release Date: 12/9/2004> > > —> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by αβγ anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 – Release Date: 12/9/2004> > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > > > ——————————> > Message: 13> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:12:05 -0500> From: “Carl ω. Conrad” <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>> Subject: ρε: [] Nota Bene> To: “Deborah Ann Taylor” <duffy at diadic.com>> Cc: at lists.ibiblio.org> Message-ιδ: <p06200702bde4c0cece18@[207.69.3.80]>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”us-ascii”> > At 11:00 αμ -0500 12/14/04, Deborah Ann Taylor wrote:> >Actually, ι was thinking that this is a thread a number of us might > >find helpful. ι‘d appreciate replies on list if that is οκ with the > >moderators.> >> >Duffy> >Ottawa, Ontario> >Canada> > Strictly speaking, it ισ off-topic, but it’s akin to the sort > of bibliographic sharing that we occasionally do to the > benefit of many list-members. βυτ: would you please follow βγ > protocol and sign your messages with a full-name signature? > Thanks. cwc> — > > Carl ω. Conrad> Co-Chair, List> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus) > cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu> ωωω: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/> > > ——————————> > _______________________________________________> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > End of Digest, Vol 24, Issue 14> ***************************************>

[] λιθον ζωντα and λιθοι ζωντεσ in 1 Peter 2:4 & 5[] λιθον ζωντα and λιθοι ζωντεσ in 1 Peter 2:4 & 5

[] Jude 4: τουτο το κριμα George φ Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Wed Dec 15 14:27:35 εστ 2004

[] λιθον ζωντα and λιθοι ζωντεσ in 1 Peter 2:4 & 5 [] Biblical but not greek On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:51:57 -0600 “Joel Barnes” <joel at barnzee.ca>writes:> Dear Everyone,> > It was recently suggested to me that κριμα in Jude 4 means *choice* > or> *decision* and is a reference to the choice of the τινεσ ανθρωποι > to> infilitrate the Church. Is there any merit to this suggestion? ι > haven’t any> lexical suppport for this interpretation; however, my lexical > resources are> limited.> <snip>> > Kind regards,> > Joel> > —> Joel Barnes, β.Sc.Kin., μ.Sc.> > Executive Assistant to the Dean> College of Kinesiology> University of Saskatchewan> 87 Campus Drive> Saskatoon, Saskatchewan> S7N 5B2> Canada> > 306.966.1113 (voice)> 306.966.6464 (fax)> joel.barnes at usask.ca (email)________________ τεχτ: παρεισεδυσαν γαρ τινεσ ανθρωποι, hOI παλαι προγεγραμμενοι εισ τουτο τοκριμα, θν του θεου hHMWN χαριτα μεταθεντεσ εισ ασελγειαν και τον μονονδεσποθν και κυριον hHMWN ιησουν χριστον αρνουμενοι.The word κριμα seems almost universally to have a judicial sense. Louw &Nida list the following semantic domains:κριμα, τοσ n a legal decision: 56.20b authority to judge: 56.22c verdict: 56.24d condemnation: 56.30e lawsuit: 56.2f judgment: 30.110georgegfsomsel

[] λιθον ζωντα and λιθοι ζωντεσ in 1 Peter 2:4 & 5[] Biblical but not greek