[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” George φ Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 13 20:50:18 εδτ 2006
[] God απο αιωνοσ vs. Christ απο αρχε [] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” We have been having a rather frustrating discussion on the ανε-2 list with a member who seems intent on distorting the meaning of various texts. In the story of David and Goliath in 1 Sam 17 e.g. he asserted that David murdered Goliath because Goliath was simply coming to him to congratulate him on a great speech [ι kid you not ! ]. His basis for saying this was that the text says that Goliath arose so he must have been sitting respectfully and listening to David’s “sermon” [Yup, that’s what he said]. Well, the Hebrew there does use the verb θωμ which means to get up (when used alone), and it follows this with a coordinated ηλκ which means to go or walk. The problem is that this pair is used together on 82 occasions in the οτ and acts as an inceptive, i.e. it indicates that he starts out toward something (in this case, David). It occured to me that there is an instance in the ντ which seems very much the same. See if you don’t think that the idea is “ι‘ll get going.” áíáóôáò ðïñåõóïìáé ðñïò ôïí ðáôåñá ìïõ êáé åñù áõôù, ðáôåñ, çìáñôïí åéò ôïí ïõñáíïí êáé åíùðéïí óïõ. αναστασ πορευσομαι προσ τον πατερα μου και ερω AUTWi, πατερ, hHMARTON ειω τον ουρανον και ενωπιον σου. Just for comparison, here is the Greek translation of 1 Sam 17.48 êáé áíåóôç ï áëëïöõëïò êáé åðïñåõèç åéò óõíáôçóéí Äáõéä. και ανεσθ hO αλλοφυλοσ και επορευθη εισ συνανθσιν δαυιδ. Perhaps we should understand the Prodigal’s statement is “ι‘ll set out for my father . . .” rather than “ι will arise and go . . . ” georgegfsomsel_________ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[] God απο αιωνοσ vs. Christ απο αρχε[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go”
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” Kevin Riley klriley at alphalink.com.au
Sun Aug 13 21:25:09 εδτ 2006
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” [] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” ——-Original Message——- From: George φ SomselDate: 08/14/06 10:50:33 We have been having a rather frustrating discussion on the ανε-2 list with amember who seems intent on distorting the meaning of various texts. In thestory of David and Goliath in 1 Sam 17 e.g. he asserted that David murderedGoliath because Goliath was simply coming to him to congratulate him on agreat speech [ι kid you not! ]. His basis for saying this was that the text says that Goliath arose sohe must have been sitting respectfully and listening to David’s “sermon”[Yup, that’s what he said]. **************************κ: Does context mean nothing? It is a time of war. Goliath is comingtowards David, cursing him in the name of his gods, and then sits down andrespectfully listens to David??!! ι don’t think the rules of war everextended to a need to congratulate your enemy on his sermons.**********************Well, the Hebrew there does use the verb θωμ which means to get up (whenused alone), and it follows this with a coordinated ηλκ which means to go orwalk. The problem is that this pair is used together on 82 occasions in theOT and acts as an inceptive, i.e. it indicates that he starts out towardsomething (in this case, David). It occured to me that there is an instancein the ντ which seems very much the same. See if you don’t think that theidea is “ι‘ll get going.” áíáóôáò ðïñåõóïìáé ðñïò ôïí ðáôåñá ìïõ êáé åñù áõôù, ðáôåñ, çìáñôïí åéò ôïíïõñáíïí êáé åíùðéïí óïõ. αναστασ πορευσομαι προσ τον πατερα μου και ερω AUTWi, πατερ, hHMARTON ειωτον ουρανον και ενωπιον σου. Just for comparison, here is the Greek translation of 1 Sam 17.48 êáé áíåóôç ï áëëïöõëïò êáé åðïñåõèç åéò óõíáôçóéí Äáõéä. και ανεσθ hO αλλοφυλοσ και επορευθη εισ συνανθσιν δαυιδ. Perhaps we should understand the Prodigal’s statement is “ι‘ll set out formy father . . .” rather than “ι will arise and go . . . ” georgegfsomsel_________I would say that “arise and go” can be understood simply as an idiom – asyou have said, meaning simply “to set out” for somewhere in every instancewhere it is used in the οτ and ντ. To insist in each case that theperson/people were necessarily seated when before “arising” is odd – sort oflike insisting one must be lying before one can “sit up” in English. Kevin Riley
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go”[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go”
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” Jim West jwest at highland.net
Sun Aug 13 21:32:20 εδτ 2006
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” [] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” George φ Somsel wrote:> > Perhaps we should understand the Prodigal’s statement is “ι‘ll set out for my father . . .” rather than “ι will arise and go . . . “> Just different words carrying the same meaning. In point of fact, one has to get up in order to go. Whether one “sets out” or “goes” is simply a matter of choosing one word instead of another.– Jim West, ThDhttp://web.infoave.net/~jwest — Biblical Studies Resourceshttp://petrosbaptistchurch.blogspot.com — Weblog
Sun Aug 13 21:44:08 εδτ 2006
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go” [] God απο αιωνοσ vs. Christ απο αρχε concession No, Jim. He doesn’t need to get up in order to go if he’s already standing. The point is that there are not two actions envisaged 1. Standing up 2. Moving Rather, there is but one: Get moving. The posture one has at the time is of no consequence. ___________ Jim West <jwest at highland.net> wrote: George φ Somsel wrote:> > Perhaps we should understand the Prodigal’s statement is “ι‘ll set out for my father . . .” rather than “ι will arise and go . . . “> Just different words carrying the same meaning. In point of fact, one has to get up in order to go. Whether one “sets out” or “goes” is simply a matter of choosing one word instead of another.– Jim West, ThDhttp://web.infoave.net/~jwest — Biblical Studies Resourceshttp://petrosbaptistchurch.blogspot.com — Webloggeorgegfsomsel_________ ———————————Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[] Lk 15.18 “ι will arise and go”[] God απο αιωνοσ vs. Christ απο αρχε concession