[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Feb 4 06:08:55 EST 2003
[] SE in Mark 1:24 [] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN
Forwarded for Harry Jones:From: “Harry W. Jones” <hwjones2 at earthlink.net>Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:17:57 -0800Hello All,My question concerns KAI EN TAIS CERSIN OFEIS AROUSIN.I have noticed that some translations have AROUSIN translated as *handle*and I am wondering if that could an accurate gloss of this word?Any help would be appreciated.Best Regards,Harry Jones
[] SE in Mark 1:24[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN Clwinbery at aol.com Clwinbery at aol.com
Tue Feb 4 08:36:18 EST 2003
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN [] LXX perplexity: Wever on Dt 4:1
In a message dated 2/4/2003 6:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu writes:>
>
Hello All,>
>
My question concerns KAI EN TAIS CERSIN OFEIS AROUSIN.>
>
I have noticed that some translations have AROUSIN translated as *handle*>
and I am wondering if that could an accurate gloss of this >
word?>
>
Any help would be appreciated.>
>
Best Regards,>
Harry JonesHarry, its the combination of AROUSIN and CERSIN that gives the meaning “to handle.” “to take up with the hands.”Carlton WinberyLouisiana College
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN[] LXX perplexity: Wever on Dt 4:1
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Tue Feb 4 09:54:17 EST 2003
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN [] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN
> >
Forwarded for Harry Jones:> >
From: “Harry W. Jones” <hwjones2 at earthlink.net>>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:17:57 -0800> > >
Hello All,> >
My question concerns KAI EN TAIS CERSIN OFEIS AROUSIN.> >
I have noticed that some translations have AROUSIN translated as *handle*>
and I am wondering if that could an accurate gloss of this word?> According to my little English dictionary, handle has two senses:1) feel with or move by the hands2) to deal with or controlI would think that sense 1 is OK for Mark 16:18, but sense 2 isquestionable.If one understands “handle” here as a habitual controlling or handling, Iwould prefer to just use the more common gloss for AIRW, that is, “pick up”as NIV has it. Based on the following context of drinking poison, it seemsto me that the picking up of snakes is either unintentional as Paulexperienced on Malta or at least not a normal or habitual event. Normally,if one had to move a snake, one would use a long stick, so I suppose the”hands” are meant to indicate an abnormal way of touching a snake. Both RSVand TEV leave the hands implicit in “pick up”, unless they have chosen totranslate without the textually disputed words “KAI EN TAIS CERSIN”. It isinteresting to me how the TEV has moved the “if” forward to indicate theassumed unintentionality: “if they pick up snakes or drink any poison, theywill not be harmed”.REB does the same: “if they handle snakes or drink any deadly poison, theywill come to no harm.” I think this is probably the intended meaning of thefuture “they will pick up”.Iver Larsen
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN
[] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN Harry W. Jones hwjones2 at earthlink.net
Tue Feb 4 20:55:29 EST 2003
[] LXX perplexity: Wever on Dt 4:1 [] Living water etc.
Hello Carlton and Iver,I appreciate your help.So then *handle*, if I understand you both correctly, would be a validgloss for AROUSIN.Best Regards,Harry JonesIn a message dated 2/4/2003 6:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu writes: >
>
Hello All,>
>
My question concerns KAI EN TAIS CERSIN OFEIS AROUSIN.>
>
I have noticed that some translations have AROUSIN translated as *handle*>
and I am wondering if that could an accurate gloss of this >
word?>
>
Any help would be appreciated.>
>
Best Regards,>
Harry JonesHarry, its the combination of AROUSIN and CERSIN that gives the meaning “tohandle.” “to take up with the hands.” Carlton WinberyLouisiana College— home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ >
[Original Message]>
From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>>
To: Biblical Greek < at lists.ibiblio.org>>
Date: 2/4/03 6:54:17 AM>
Subject: RE: [] Mark 16:18 AROUSIN> >
>>
> Forwarded for Harry Jones:>
>>
> From: “Harry W. Jones” <hwjones2 at earthlink.net>>
> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 02:17:57 -0800>
>>
>>
> Hello All,>
>>
> My question concerns KAI EN TAIS CERSIN OFEIS AROUSIN.>
>>
> I have noticed that some translations have AROUSIN translated as*handle*>
> and I am wondering if that could an accurate gloss of this word?>
>> >
According to my little English dictionary, handle has two senses:>
1) feel with or move by the hands>
2) to deal with or control> >
I would think that sense 1 is OK for Mark 16:18, but sense 2 is>
questionable.>
If one understands “handle” here as a habitual controlling or handling, I>
would prefer to just use the more common gloss for AIRW, that is, “pickup”>
as NIV has it. Based on the following context of drinking poison, it seems>
to me that the picking up of snakes is either unintentional as Paul>
experienced on Malta or at least not a normal or habitual event. Normally,>
if one had to move a snake, one would use a long stick, so I suppose the>
“hands” are meant to indicate an abnormal way of touching a snake. BothRSV>
and TEV leave the hands implicit in “pick up”, unless they have chosen to>
translate without the textually disputed words “KAI EN TAIS CERSIN”. It is>
interesting to me how the TEV has moved the “if” forward to indicate the>
assumed unintentionality: “if they pick up snakes or drink any poison,they>
will not be harmed”.>
REB does the same: “if they handle snakes or drink any deadly poison, they>
will come to no harm.” I think this is probably the intended meaning ofthe>
future “they will pick up”.> >
Iver Larsen> >
—>
home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/>
mailing list>
at lists.ibiblio.org>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] LXX perplexity: Wever on Dt 4:1[] Living water etc.