TA in Mark 2:1 Richard A. Creighton richard.creighton at moore.edu.au
Thu May 27 23:54:57 EDT 1999
New email list!… IXTHUS Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenortranslate this as “space near the door”.How is the TA functioning here?Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kindof way in the NT?Rick Creighton.
New email list!…IXTHUS
TA in Mark 2:1 Richard A. Creighton richard.creighton at moore.edu.au
Thu May 27 23:54:57 EDT 1999
New email list!… IXTHUS Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenortranslate this as “space near the door”.How is the TA functioning here?Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kindof way in the NT?Rick Creighton.
New email list!…IXTHUS
TA in Mark 2:1 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri May 28 07:01:53 EDT 1999
correction to my previous email about TA in Mark 2 Maybe OT: 2 Questions At 1:54 PM +1000 5/28/99, Richard A. Creighton wrote:>Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenor>translate this as “space near the door”.> >How is the TA functioning here?>Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kind>of way in the NT?There was a rather full discussion of this verse–which you identified inthe subsequent post as Mark 2:2 rather than 2:1–earlier this year. You maywish to consult the archives for March 7 and 8 (subject-header:”Interpretation of Mark 2:2??”) and April 12-14 (subject-header: “Syntax ofMark 2:2”). There certainly was much attention paid there to the sense ofTA PROS THN QURAN. I think there was full agreement about the nature ofthis phrase as meaning “the area near the door” but there were differingviews as to whether the phrase referred to areas inside the door (my view)or to the courtyard of the house (another view). There were alsoalternative views of the syntax of the phrase, some arguing that itfunctioned as the subject of CWREIN, while I argued that CWREIN functionedas an impersonal verb and TA PROS THN QURAN was a substantive accusative ofrespect: “so that there was no room, not even with respect to the area nearthe door.”The phrase itself is pretty standard Greek in all periods from at least thesixth-century B.C. onwards into Byzantine Greek: the article, whethersingular or plural, constitutes all elements within it as a substantivephrase that can serve any of the functions of a noun or substantive; thuswe have phrases like hOI TOTE = “men at that time” or TO AGAQA PRATTEIN =”performing good actions,” or one thinks especially of such Platonicabstractions as AUTO TO AGAQON and AUTO TO KALON (“the good itself” and”the beautiful itself”).Here are just a few of many examples of this sort of phrasing in the GNT:Acts 23:11 … hWS GAR DIEMARTURW TA PERI EMOU EIS IEROUSALHM …Acts 24.22 EIDWS TA PERI THS hODOU …Rom 15:17 ECW OUN KAUCHSIN EN CRISTWi IHSOU TA PROS TON QEON …Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
correction to my previous email about TA in Mark 2Maybe OT: 2 Questions
TA in Mark 2:1 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri May 28 07:01:53 EDT 1999
correction to my previous email about TA in Mark 2 Maybe OT: 2 Questions At 1:54 PM +1000 5/28/99, Richard A. Creighton wrote:>Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenor>translate this as “space near the door”.> >How is the TA functioning here?>Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kind>of way in the NT?There was a rather full discussion of this verse–which you identified inthe subsequent post as Mark 2:2 rather than 2:1–earlier this year. You maywish to consult the archives for March 7 and 8 (subject-header:”Interpretation of Mark 2:2??”) and April 12-14 (subject-header: “Syntax ofMark 2:2”). There certainly was much attention paid there to the sense ofTA PROS THN QURAN. I think there was full agreement about the nature ofthis phrase as meaning “the area near the door” but there were differingviews as to whether the phrase referred to areas inside the door (my view)or to the courtyard of the house (another view). There were alsoalternative views of the syntax of the phrase, some arguing that itfunctioned as the subject of CWREIN, while I argued that CWREIN functionedas an impersonal verb and TA PROS THN QURAN was a substantive accusative ofrespect: “so that there was no room, not even with respect to the area nearthe door.”The phrase itself is pretty standard Greek in all periods from at least thesixth-century B.C. onwards into Byzantine Greek: the article, whethersingular or plural, constitutes all elements within it as a substantivephrase that can serve any of the functions of a noun or substantive; thuswe have phrases like hOI TOTE = “men at that time” or TO AGAQA PRATTEIN =”performing good actions,” or one thinks especially of such Platonicabstractions as AUTO TO AGAQON and AUTO TO KALON (“the good itself” and”the beautiful itself”).Here are just a few of many examples of this sort of phrasing in the GNT:Acts 23:11 … hWS GAR DIEMARTURW TA PERI EMOU EIS IEROUSALHM …Acts 24.22 EIDWS TA PERI THS hODOU …Rom 15:17 ECW OUN KAUCHSIN EN CRISTWi IHSOU TA PROS TON QEON …Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
correction to my previous email about TA in Mark 2Maybe OT: 2 Questions
TA in Mark 2:1 Jeffrey B. Gibson jgibson000 at mailhost.chi.ameritech.net
Fri May 28 15:51:27 EDT 1999
AORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVE Emphatic words and structures in NT Greek “Carl W. Conrad” wrote:> At 1:54 PM +1000 5/28/99, Richard A. Creighton wrote:> >Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenor> >translate this as “space near the door”.> >> >How is the TA functioning here?> >Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kind> >of way in the NT?[snip]> Here are just a few of many examples of this sort of phrasing in the GNT:> > Acts 23:11 … hWS GAR DIEMARTURW TA PERI EMOU EIS IEROUSALHM …> > Acts 24.22 EIDWS TA PERI THS hODOU …> > Rom 15:17 ECW OUN KAUCHSIN EN CRISTWi IHSOU TA PROS TON QEON …> And what about — as an (another) example of Markan usage of this idiom — Mk. 8:33hUPAGE OPISW MOU, SATANA, hOTI OU FRONEIS TA TOU QEOU ALLA TA TWN ANQRWPWN.Yours,Jeffrey Gibson–Jeffrey B. Gibson7423 N. Sheridan Road #2AChicago, Illinois 60626e-mail jgibson000 at ameritech.net
AORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVEEmphatic words and structures in NT Greek
TA in Mark 2:1 Jeffrey B. Gibson jgibson000 at mailhost.chi.ameritech.net
Fri May 28 15:51:27 EDT 1999
AORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVE Emphatic words and structures in NT Greek “Carl W. Conrad” wrote:> At 1:54 PM +1000 5/28/99, Richard A. Creighton wrote:> >Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenor> >translate this as “space near the door”.> >> >How is the TA functioning here?> >Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kind> >of way in the NT?[snip]> Here are just a few of many examples of this sort of phrasing in the GNT:> > Acts 23:11 … hWS GAR DIEMARTURW TA PERI EMOU EIS IEROUSALHM …> > Acts 24.22 EIDWS TA PERI THS hODOU …> > Rom 15:17 ECW OUN KAUCHSIN EN CRISTWi IHSOU TA PROS TON QEON …> And what about — as an (another) example of Markan usage of this idiom — Mk. 8:33hUPAGE OPISW MOU, SATANA, hOTI OU FRONEIS TA TOU QEOU ALLA TA TWN ANQRWPWN.Yours,Jeffrey Gibson–Jeffrey B. Gibson7423 N. Sheridan Road #2AChicago, Illinois 60626e-mail jgibson000 at ameritech.net
AORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVEEmphatic words and structures in NT Greek
TA in Mark 2:1 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri May 28 17:24:43 EDT 1999
Emphatic words and structures in NT Greek AORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVE At 2:51 PM -0500 5/28/99, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:>“Carl W. Conrad” wrote:> >> At 1:54 PM +1000 5/28/99, Richard A. Creighton wrote:>> >Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenor>> >translate this as “space near the door”.>> >>> >How is the TA functioning here?>> >Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kind>> >of way in the NT?> >[snip]> >> Here are just a few of many examples of this sort of phrasing in the GNT:>> >> Acts 23:11 … hWS GAR DIEMARTURW TA PERI EMOU EIS IEROUSALHM …>> >> Acts 24.22 EIDWS TA PERI THS hODOU …>> >> Rom 15:17 ECW OUN KAUCHSIN EN CRISTWi IHSOU TA PROS TON QEON …>> > >And what about — as an (another) example of Markan usage of this idiom —>Mk. 8:33>hUPAGE OPISW MOU, SATANA, hOTI OU FRONEIS TA TOU QEOU ALLA TA TWN ANQRWPWN.Good one, Jeffrey. The primary reason I chose the ones I did choose,however, was that they all use TA with a prepositional phrase tosubstantivize it.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
Emphatic words and structures in NT GreekAORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVE
TA in Mark 2:1 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri May 28 17:24:43 EDT 1999
Emphatic words and structures in NT Greek AORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVE At 2:51 PM -0500 5/28/99, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:>“Carl W. Conrad” wrote:> >> At 1:54 PM +1000 5/28/99, Richard A. Creighton wrote:>> >Mark 2:1 contains the phrase TA PROS THN QURAN – Zerwick/Grosvenor>> >translate this as “space near the door”.>> >>> >How is the TA functioning here?>> >Are there other examples of the definite article being used in this kind>> >of way in the NT?> >[snip]> >> Here are just a few of many examples of this sort of phrasing in the GNT:>> >> Acts 23:11 … hWS GAR DIEMARTURW TA PERI EMOU EIS IEROUSALHM …>> >> Acts 24.22 EIDWS TA PERI THS hODOU …>> >> Rom 15:17 ECW OUN KAUCHSIN EN CRISTWi IHSOU TA PROS TON QEON …>> > >And what about — as an (another) example of Markan usage of this idiom —>Mk. 8:33>hUPAGE OPISW MOU, SATANA, hOTI OU FRONEIS TA TOU QEOU ALLA TA TWN ANQRWPWN.Good one, Jeffrey. The primary reason I chose the ones I did choose,however, was that they all use TA with a prepositional phrase tosubstantivize it.Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington UniversitySummer: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
Emphatic words and structures in NT GreekAORIST VS PRESENT INFINITIVE