Matthew 2:4

KJV Mt. 2:4 Ted Mann theomann at earthlink.net
Mon Jun 11 17:00:44 EDT 2001

Questions about questions KJV Mt. 2:4 In Mt. 2:4, whereas the NASB, NIV, etc., translate EPUQAVETO as “he asked,”or “inquired,” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” which produces quite adifferent sense to me. Is “demanded,” a less apt translation or is thisonly a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 years?Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century readers? Many thanks.TedDr. Theodore H. Manntheomann at earthlink.nethttp://home.earthlink.net/~theomann

Questions about questionsKJV Mt. 2:4

KJV Mt. 2:4 Harry W. Jones hjbluebird at aol.com
Mon Jun 11 17:57:00 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 > In Mt. 2:4, whereas the NASB, NIV, etc., translate EPUQAVETO as “he asked,”> or “inquired,” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” which produces quite a> different sense to me. Is “demanded,” a less apt translation or is this> only a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 years?> Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century readers? Many thanks.> > Ted> Dr. Theodore H. Mann> theomann at earthlink.net> http://home.earthlink.net/~theomannTed, You have asked a very interesting question. The answer is that the KJVhas mistranslated that Greek word, “EPUQAVETO”. It should be translatedas, “inquired”. The lexical form of that verb is, “PUNQANOUAI”. Witha strong’s number of 4441. My reference is BAGD and Thayer.Harry W. Joneshjbluebird at aol.com

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KJV Mt. 2:4 Jim West jwest at highland.net
Mon Jun 11 17:20:21 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 At 05:00 PM 6/11/01 -0400, you wrote:>In Mt. 2:4, whereas the NASB, NIV, etc., translate EPUQAVETO as “he asked,”>or “inquired,” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” which produces quite a>different sense to me. Is “demanded,” a less apt translation or is this>only a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 years?>Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century readers? Many thanks.see BDF sec. 328. The verb is imperfect- *kept asking*. i suppose the KJVis merely trying to offer a good rendering of the imperfectness of the verb.i agree. when ya keep asking and keep asking and keep asking… you are- ina very real sense- demanding an answer. otherwise you would shut up.bestjim++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Jim West, ThDHome Page:Biblical Studies Resourceshttp://web.infoave.net/~jwest

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KJV Mt. 2:4 lance w seevers lws39 at juno.com
Mon Jun 11 18:57:10 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 The KJV translates PUQANOMAI as “asked” in Luke 15:26 and 18:36,following wyclifs version. But the websters dictionary does give anarchaic definition for “demand” as “question.” The kjv does translate it as demand in acts 21:33. FWIWWalt SeeversOn Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:00:44 -0400 “Ted Mann” <theomann at earthlink.net>writes:> In Mt. 2:4, whereas the NASB, NIV, etc., translate EPUQAVETO as “he > asked,”> or “inquired,” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” which produces quite > a> different sense to me. Is “demanded,” a less apt translation or is > this> only a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 > years?> Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century readers? Many > thanks.> > Ted> Dr. Theodore H. Mann> theomann at earthlink.net> http://home.earthlink.net/~theomann> > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: [lws39 at juno.com]> To unsubscribe, forward this message to > $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to > subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > >

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KJV Mt. 2:4 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Jun 11 19:49:30 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 At 5:00 PM -0400 6/11/01, Ted Mann wrote:>In Mt. 2:4, whereas the NASB, NIV, etc., translate EPUQAVETO as “he asked,”>or “inquired,” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” which produces quite a>different sense to me. Is “demanded,” a less apt translation or is this>only a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 years?>Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century readers? Many thanks.Yes, it would; it is a matter of Elizabethan (or should I say Jacobean)English; one might well relate it to French DEMANDER, whence it actuallyderives from old Norman French.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityHome: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

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KJV Mt. 2:4 Maurice A. O’Sullivan mauros at iol.ie
Mon Jun 11 20:08:25 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 At 22:57 11/06/01, Harry W. Jones wrote:>The answer is that the KJV>has mistranslated that Greek word, “EPUQAVETO”. It should be translated>as, “inquired”.I would question your use of ” mistranslated” — what is appropriate for a 21st. century understanding cannot automatically be applied to Elizabethan English, surely?.For example, I can remember the time when a U.K passport carried a request from Her Majesty that “the bearer be allowed, without let or hindrance ” — in 400 years, the meaning of ” let ” had changed completely from ” prevent” to ” allow ” [ in fact, in tennis to this very day it retains the original meaning !! ]So Ted is quite right to suggest ” or is this only a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 years? “In the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary one definition of ” demand ” is: >> Ask, inquire, make inquiry of a person etc. _arch_. LME.” >>Note that ” inquiry of” and that it is listed as archaic.Indeed, the SOED gives an example for this very use from the AV >> AV Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? <<Although you wrote: ” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” ” — in fact, it has ” demainded of them “, which is precisely the construction used in the Lukan example.P.S Just to correct a couple of typos: the form in Mt. 2:4 is EPUNQANETO and the lexical form is: PUNQANOMAIMaurice A. O’Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]mauros at iol.ie

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KJV Mt. 2:4 B. D. Colt babc at ix.netcom.com
Mon Jun 11 20:25:10 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 On 11 Jun 01, at 16:57, lance w seevers wrote:> span of 400 > years? > Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century> readers? My American Heritage Dictionary gives as one meaning: 8. Archaic An emphatic question or inquiry. Barbara D. Colt, mailto:babc at ix.netcom.comSt John the Evangelist, San Francisco

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KJV Mt. 2:4 Harry W. Jones hjbluebird at aol.com
Mon Jun 11 20:47:21 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 KJV Mt. 2:4 > At 22:57 11/06/01, Harry W. Jones wrote:> > >The answer is that the KJV> >has mistranslated that Greek word, “EPUQAVETO”. It should be translated> >as, “inquired”.> > I would question your use of ” mistranslated” — what is appropriate for> a 21st. century understanding cannot automatically be applied to > Elizabethan English, surely?.> > For example, I can remember the time when a U.K passport carried a request> from Her Majesty that “the bearer be allowed, without let or hindrance “> — in 400 years, the meaning of ” let ” had changed completely from ” > prevent” to ” allow ” [ in fact, in tennis to this very day it retains the> original meaning !! ]> > So Ted is quite right to suggest ” or is this only a matter of changes in> the English language over a span of 400 years? “> > In the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary one definition of ” demand ” is:> >> Ask, inquire, make inquiry of a person etc. _arch_. LME.” >>> Note that ” inquiry of” and that it is listed as archaic.> > Indeed, the SOED gives an example for this very use from the AV> >> AV Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And> what shall we do? <<> > Although you wrote: ” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” ” — in fact, it has> ” demainded of them “, which is precisely the construction used in the > Lukan example.> > P.S Just to correct a couple of typos: the form in Mt. 2:4 is EPUNQANETO> and the lexical form is: PUNQANOMAI> > > > Maurice A. O’Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]> mauros at iol.ieMaurice,I only looked in my Webster’s dictionary. In my American HeritageDictionary it is listed as “Archaic”. Therefore my post should bemodifed to state that it may have been translated correctly at thattime in the past but that it would not be a correct translation today.In any case “demand” is not a correct translation of “PUNQANOMAI” today.Harry W. Joneshjbluebird at aol.com

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KJV Mt. 2:4 Chuck Tripp ctripp at ptialaska.net
Mon Jun 11 21:39:58 EDT 2001

KJV Mt. 2:4 Questions about questions My guess is that ‘demand’ in the KJV is taking the French meaning, i.e.demander, which is very similar in meaning to our english word ‘ask.’Probably due to the influence of French on the English language after the1066 Norman conquest of England.Chuck TrippKodiak, Alaska—– Original Message —–From: Ted Mann <theomann at earthlink.net>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:00 PMSubject: [] KJV Mt. 2:4> In Mt. 2:4, whereas the NASB, NIV, etc., translate EPUQAVETO as “heasked,”> or “inquired,” I notice the KJV has “demanded,” which produces quite a> different sense to me. Is “demanded,” a less apt translation or is this> only a matter of changes in the English language over a span of 400 years?> Would “demand” have meant “ask” to 17th-century readers? Many thanks.> > Ted> Dr. Theodore H. Mann> theomann at earthlink.net> http://home.earthlink.net/~theomann> > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: [ctripp at ptialaska.net]> To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> >

KJV Mt. 2:4Questions about questions

KJV Mt. 2:4 Clwinbery at aol.com Clwinbery at aol.com
Tue Jun 12 07:24:49 EDT 2001

Questions about questions The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts I would question your use of ” mistranslated” — what is appropriate for a 21st. century understanding cannot automatically be applied to Elizabethan English, surely?.Maurice A. O’Sullivan wrote;>For example, I can remember the time when a U.K passport carried a request >from Her Majesty that “the bearer be allowed, without let or hindrance ” >— in 400 years, the meaning of ” let ” had changed completely from ” >prevent” to ” allow ” [ in fact, in tennis to this very day it retains the >original meaning !! ]> >So Ted is quite right to suggest ” or is this only a matter of changes in >the English language over a span of 400 years? “I am sure Maurice was thinking of the text below.MONON hO KATECWN ARTI hEWS EK MESOU GENHTAI.KJV 2 Thess. 2:7 . . . only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.Carlton WinberyLA College

Questions about questionsThe Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts