[bible passage=”Philippians 3:20″]
A friend of mine writes:
“I have summarily rejected the lexical definitions of apekdechomai, taking,
instead, the meaning of the verb dechomai, and adding the meanings of the added
prefixes. This is just for your consideration. It gives the verse a very
different meaning.
Phil. 3:20
“For you see, our citizenship (result of living in a free city; or: commonwealth
– realm of a free city; political realm) continues inherently existing (or:
continues humbly ruling; continuously subsists; repeatedly has its
under-beginning) resident within the midst of [the] atmospheres (or: heavens),
from out of where (or: which place) we also continuously receive and take away
in our hands from out of a Deliverer (a Savior; One restoring us to the health
and wholeness of our original state and condition): [the] Lord (or: a Master),
Jesus Christ,”
The hi-lited clause renders the Greek verb “apo-ek-dechometha.” Dechometha is
the 1st per. pl. present tense of “dechomai,” with two prepositions prefixed to
it. Dechomai means: to take into one’s hands (first meaning); to receive
(second meaning); to accept (third meaning). Do you see any “waiting” in this
word?
apo means: away; away from; off. ek means: from out of; out of the midst of.
Add these two modifiers to the above verb, and you get my translation.
As you know, traditions die hard. Liddell and Scott list apek as a preposition:
away/from out of.
In a separate entry, a group of verbs are listed under apek-
apek-lanthanomai : to forget entirely (apek as an intensifier); to escape away
from out of (one’s) knowledge
apek-baino : to turn away and out
apek-ballo : to cast out and away
apek-bioo : to cease living (to be out and away from life)
apek-duomai : to strip off oneself
apek-luo : to relax, weaken
apek-ripto : to throw off and away
apek-teino : to draw off and away
apek-tasis : a spreading out and away
Now note that in all these cases the addition of this preposition to a verb
either works as an intensifier of the verb, or adds the meaning of the
preposition to the verb. So why not with apek-dechomai?”
I see that only two of his examples are deponent as is APEKDEXOMAI and their
stems are active.
LANQANW for APEKLANQANOMAI
EKDUW for APEKDUOMAI?
APEKDEXOMAI has a deponent for it’s stem. Since it has a middle/passive form to
begin with might this may affect the meaning of the preposition/s APEK.
I’ve also pointed out that the Latin text translates APEKDEXOMAI with
“exspecto” at Phil. 3:20 as well as the other seven places noted in BDAG.
What factors influence how this word is understood?
T. Scott Lawson
—
The way it was used, not the etymology of its constituent parts. Try
doing what you’ve been doing with ANABAINW.
Jeffrey
—
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail
—
—– Original Message —–
Sent: 1. januar 2011 00:35
You cannot summarily reject lexical definitions. You need a good deal of solid
argumentation to go against established lexica, and looking at the parts of a
verb does not constitute such solid argumentation. Imagine if someone would do
that for English? It will not turn out well for such a person. Rather he will
metaphorically speaking turn out the light. You can turn out many strange
interpretations by such a procedure. How many turned out for the party last
night? (I am not sure these are all good English expressions, since I am still
learning the language, but I sure won’t learn it by looking in turns first at
“turn” and then at “out”.)
LSJ has:
I. ἀπεκδέχομαι, expect anxiously, await eagerly, σωτῆρα Ep.Phil.3.20; θάνατον
Alciphr.3.7; τὸ μέλλον Hld.2.35, cf. S.E.M.2.73; μαστῷ πόρτιν ἀπεκδέχεται
AP9.722 (Antip. Sid., = Page EG3595, v.l. ὑπεκ-).
II. misunderstand, misinterpret, Hipparch.1.6.11, al.
b. understand a word from the context, A.D.Conj.226.20.
—————
Your friend has misunderstood the word and misinterpreted the text, because he
ignores the fact that a word is to be understood from its context and usage
rather than from its components parts.
BDAG has:
ἀπεκδέχομαι (s. δέχομαι) impf. ἀπεξεδεχόμην await eagerly (so Alciphron 3, 4, 6;
Heliod. 2, 35, 3; 7, 23, 5; Sext. Emp., Math. 2, 73; TestAbr A 16 p. 96, 23
[Stone p. 40]) τινά or τί : Onesiphorus went out to meet Paul on the road that
leads to Lystra and waited to welcome him καὶ εἱστήκει ἀ[πεκδεχόμενος αὐτόν]
AcPl Ant 13, 22 (restoration after AcPlTh 3 [Aa I 237, 5]); in our lit. always
of Christian hope w. its var. objects: σωτῆρα Phil 3:20; Christ Hb 9:28.—τὴν
ἀποκάλυψιν τῶν υἱῶν τοῦ θεοῦ the revelation of the sons of God Ro 8:19; cp. 1
Cor 1:7. υἱοθεσίαν Ro 8:23 (for this and other passages JSwetnam suggests infer,
understand in a certain sense: Biblica 48, ’67, 102–8). ἐλπίδα δικαιοσύνης Gal
5:5.—Abs. wait διʼ ὑπομονῆς wait patiently Ro 8:25. Of God’s forbearance 1 Pt
3:20.
—————-
The meaning is clear enough and it makes good sense in Phil 3:20 so I am afraid
your friend’s attempt at making the text say what it does not say is doomed from
the start.
Iver Larsen
—
Thank you,
Iver for your observations.
It was pointed out to me yesterday that EKDEXOMAI means to wait. This friend of
mine has recently produced a translation of the NT and I was able to point out
to him that he has translated that word as “wait” in a couple of instances. AP
intensifies EKDEXOMAI making something like “eagerly await” or “eagerly expect”.
This actually answers his question “do you see any waiting in this
word?” While, I admire him for completing a translation of the NT, and would
like to do the same myself someday, I’m not sure my ego would be up for the
criticism.
T. Scott Lawson
________________________________
href=”mailto:B-Greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>B-Greek@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 10:59:41 PM
Sent: 1. januar 2011 00:35
added
You cannot summarily reject lexical definitions. You need a good deal of solid
argumentation to go against established lexica, and looking at the parts of a
verb does not constitute such solid argumentation. Imagine if someone would do
that for English? It will not turn out well for such a person. Rather he will
metaphorically speaking turn out the light. You can turn out many strange
interpretations by such a procedure. How many turned out for the party last
night? (I am not sure these are all good English expressions, since I am still
learning the language, but I sure won’t learn it by looking in turns first at
“turn” and then at “out”.)
LSJ has:
I. ἀπεκδέχομαι, expect anxiously, await eagerly, σωτῆρα Ep.Phil.3.20; θάνατον
Alciphr.3.7; τὸ μέλλον Hld.2.35, cf. S.E.M.2.73; μαστῷ πόρτιν ἀπεκδέχεται
AP9.722 (Antip. Sid., = Page EG3595, v.l. ὑπεκ-).
II. misunderstand, misinterpret, Hipparch.1.6.11, al.
b. understand a word from the context, A.D.Conj.226.20.
—————
Your friend has misunderstood the word and misinterpreted the text, because he
ignores the fact that a word is to be understood from its context and usage
rather than from its components parts.
BDAG has:
ἀπεκδέχομαι (s. δέχομαι) impf. ἀπεξεδεχόμην await eagerly (so Alciphron 3, 4, 6;
Heliod. 2, 35, 3; 7, 23, 5; Sext. Emp., Math. 2, 73; TestAbr A 16 p. 96, 23
[Stone p. 40]) τινά or τί : Onesiphorus went out to meet Paul on the road that
leads to Lystra and waited to welcome him καὶ εἱστήκει ἀ[πεκδεχόμενος αὐτόν]
AcPl Ant 13, 22 (restoration after AcPlTh 3 [Aa I 237, 5]); in our lit. always
of Christian hope w. its var. objects: σωτῆρα Phil 3:20; Christ Hb 9:28.—τὴν
ἀποκάλυψιν τῶν υἱῶν τοῦ θεοῦ the revelation of the sons of God Ro 8:19; cp. 1
Cor 1:7. υἱοθεσίαν Ro 8:23 (for this and other passages JSwetnam suggests infer,
understand in a certain sense: Biblica 48, ’67, 102–8). ἐλπίδα δικαιοσύνης Gal
5:5.—Abs. wait διʼ ὑπομονῆς wait patiently Ro 8:25. Of God’s forbearance 1 Pt
3:20.
—————-
The meaning is clear enough and it makes good sense in Phil 3:20 so I am afraid
your friend’s attempt at making the text say what it does not say is doomed from
the start.
Iver Larsen
to
preposition:
to
—
The way it was used, not the etymology of its constituent parts. Try
doing what you’ve been doing with ANABAINW.
Jeffrey
—
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail
—
—– Original Message —–
Sent: 1. januar 2011 00:35
You cannot summarily reject lexical definitions. You need a good deal of solid
argumentation to go against established lexica, and looking at the parts of a
verb does not constitute such solid argumentation. Imagine if someone would do
that for English? It will not turn out well for such a person. Rather he will
metaphorically speaking turn out the light. You can turn out many strange
interpretations by such a procedure. How many turned out for the party last
night? (I am not sure these are all good English expressions, since I am still
learning the language, but I sure won’t learn it by looking in turns first at
“turn” and then at “out”.)
LSJ has:
I. ἀπεκδέχομαι, expect anxiously, await eagerly, σωτῆρα Ep.Phil.3.20; θάνατον
Alciphr.3.7; τὸ μέλλον Hld.2.35, cf. S.E.M.2.73; μαστῷ πόρτιν ἀπεκδέχεται
AP9.722 (Antip. Sid., = Page EG3595, v.l. ὑπεκ-).
II. misunderstand, misinterpret, Hipparch.1.6.11, al.
b. understand a word from the context, A.D.Conj.226.20.
—————
Your friend has misunderstood the word and misinterpreted the text, because he
ignores the fact that a word is to be understood from its context and usage
rather than from its components parts.
BDAG has:
ἀπεκδέχομαι (s. δέχομαι) impf. ἀπεξεδεχόμην await eagerly (so Alciphron 3, 4, 6;
Heliod. 2, 35, 3; 7, 23, 5; Sext. Emp., Math. 2, 73; TestAbr A 16 p. 96, 23
[Stone p. 40]) τινά or τί : Onesiphorus went out to meet Paul on the road that
leads to Lystra and waited to welcome him καὶ εἱστήκει ἀ[πεκδεχόμενος αὐτόν]
AcPl Ant 13, 22 (restoration after AcPlTh 3 [Aa I 237, 5]); in our lit. always
of Christian hope w. its var. objects: σωτῆρα Phil 3:20; Christ Hb 9:28.—τὴν
ἀποκάλυψιν τῶν υἱῶν τοῦ θεοῦ the revelation of the sons of God Ro 8:19; cp. 1
Cor 1:7. υἱοθεσίαν Ro 8:23 (for this and other passages JSwetnam suggests infer,
understand in a certain sense: Biblica 48, ’67, 102–8). ἐλπίδα δικαιοσύνης Gal
5:5.—Abs. wait διʼ ὑπομονῆς wait patiently Ro 8:25. Of God’s forbearance 1 Pt
3:20.
—————-
The meaning is clear enough and it makes good sense in Phil 3:20 so I am afraid
your friend’s attempt at making the text say what it does not say is doomed from
the start.
Iver Larsen
—
Thank you,
Iver for your observations.
It was pointed out to me yesterday that EKDEXOMAI means to wait. This friend of
mine has recently produced a translation of the NT and I was able to point out
to him that he has translated that word as “wait” in a couple of instances. AP
intensifies EKDEXOMAI making something like “eagerly await” or “eagerly expect”.
This actually answers his question “do you see any waiting in this
word?” While, I admire him for completing a translation of the NT, and would
like to do the same myself someday, I’m not sure my ego would be up for the
criticism.
T. Scott Lawson
________________________________
href=”mailto:B-Greek@lists.ibiblio.org”>B-Greek@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, December 31, 2010 10:59:41 PM
Sent: 1. januar 2011 00:35
added
You cannot summarily reject lexical definitions. You need a good deal of solid
argumentation to go against established lexica, and looking at the parts of a
verb does not constitute such solid argumentation. Imagine if someone would do
that for English? It will not turn out well for such a person. Rather he will
metaphorically speaking turn out the light. You can turn out many strange
interpretations by such a procedure. How many turned out for the party last
night? (I am not sure these are all good English expressions, since I am still
learning the language, but I sure won’t learn it by looking in turns first at
“turn” and then at “out”.)
LSJ has:
I. ἀπεκδέχομαι, expect anxiously, await eagerly, σωτῆρα Ep.Phil.3.20; θάνατον
Alciphr.3.7; τὸ μέλλον Hld.2.35, cf. S.E.M.2.73; μαστῷ πόρτιν ἀπεκδέχεται
AP9.722 (Antip. Sid., = Page EG3595, v.l. ὑπεκ-).
II. misunderstand, misinterpret, Hipparch.1.6.11, al.
b. understand a word from the context, A.D.Conj.226.20.
—————
Your friend has misunderstood the word and misinterpreted the text, because he
ignores the fact that a word is to be understood from its context and usage
rather than from its components parts.
BDAG has:
ἀπεκδέχομαι (s. δέχομαι) impf. ἀπεξεδεχόμην await eagerly (so Alciphron 3, 4, 6;
Heliod. 2, 35, 3; 7, 23, 5; Sext. Emp., Math. 2, 73; TestAbr A 16 p. 96, 23
[Stone p. 40]) τινά or τί : Onesiphorus went out to meet Paul on the road that
leads to Lystra and waited to welcome him καὶ εἱστήκει ἀ[πεκδεχόμενος αὐτόν]
AcPl Ant 13, 22 (restoration after AcPlTh 3 [Aa I 237, 5]); in our lit. always
of Christian hope w. its var. objects: σωτῆρα Phil 3:20; Christ Hb 9:28.—τὴν
ἀποκάλυψιν τῶν υἱῶν τοῦ θεοῦ the revelation of the sons of God Ro 8:19; cp. 1
Cor 1:7. υἱοθεσίαν Ro 8:23 (for this and other passages JSwetnam suggests infer,
understand in a certain sense: Biblica 48, ’67, 102–8). ἐλπίδα δικαιοσύνης Gal
5:5.—Abs. wait διʼ ὑπομονῆς wait patiently Ro 8:25. Of God’s forbearance 1 Pt
3:20.
—————-
The meaning is clear enough and it makes good sense in Phil 3:20 so I am afraid
your friend’s attempt at making the text say what it does not say is doomed from
the start.
Iver Larsen
to
preposition:
to
—
I don’t want to sound like an idiot here but what’s the problem. Who doesn’t want to have a conversation in heaven before God and the holy angels. A life before God, the altar, and the seraphim.that cry holy holy holy. Positionally at least and in practice by the blood of a better covenant. Better promises and a better hope by which we draw near. His presence. Ok im dreaming don’t wake me.
I don’t want to sound like an idiot here but what’s the problem. Who doesn’t want to have a conversation in heaven before God and the holy angels. A life before God, the altar, and the seraphim.that cry holy holy holy. Positionally at least and in practice by the blood of a better covenant. Better promises and a better hope by which we draw near. His presence. Ok im dreaming don’t wake me.