[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? craig newsgroupstuff at swiftdsl.com.au
Wed Dec 29 13:18:57 EST 2004
[] 2 Thess 2 APOKALUPTW? [] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? Romans 9:22-24 begins with ‘EI DE…’How does this work grammatically? It seems to me that when one begins withan ‘if’ (EI), some kind of ‘then..’ should follow. Can ‘KAI HINA’ in 9:23 betranslated ‘then also so that…’? Otherwise how is the thought begun withEI completed?Alternatively, I suppose one can end with an ‘if’ clause with the resultstated first (‘I will understand if you explain it to me’). Is that what ishappening in 9:22-24? Is 9:20-21 the result stated first or something?Or is it something else completely that I have missed?Someone please explain!:)Craig JohnsonBrisbane, Australia
[] 2 Thess 2 APOKALUPTW?[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…?
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? craig newsgroupstuff at swiftdsl.com.au
Wed Dec 29 20:24:34 EST 2004
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? []Hebrews 3:11; 4:3,5 > > Romans 9:22-24 begins with ‘EI DE…’> > > > How does this work grammatically?> EI does not always indicate an “‘if’ clause.” Consider Heb > 3.11; 4.3,5> (same thing repeated)> > EI EISELEUSONTAI EIS THN KATAPAUSIN MOU> > where it seems to function as a strong negative.Although I believe this is Hebrew idiom carried over into LXX?> Or consider cases of> aposiopesis (incomplete sentences) where the thought seems to > break off> in the middle (Lk 19.42). Another usage is as “that” — see > 4 Macc 4.7. > In other words, there are a number of usages for EI which can > be reviewed> in BDAG.> > george> gfsomselSo what do you think is the usage in Rom 9:22?–Craig JohnsonBrisbane, Australia
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…?[]Hebrews 3:11; 4:3,5
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? George F Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Wed Dec 29 20:37:13 EST 2004
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? [] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 04:18:57 +1000 “craig”<newsgroupstuff at swiftdsl.com.au> writes:> Romans 9:22-24 begins with ‘EI DE…’> > How does this work grammatically? It seems to me that when one > begins with> an ‘if’ (EI), some kind of ‘then..’ should follow. Can ‘KAI HINA’ in > 9:23 be> translated ‘then also so that…’? Otherwise how is the thought > begun with> EI completed?> > Alternatively, I suppose one can end with an ‘if’ clause with the > result> stated first (‘I will understand if you explain it to me’). Is that > what is> happening in 9:22-24? Is 9:20-21 the result stated first or > something?> > Or is it something else completely that I have missed?> > Someone please explain!> > 🙂> > Craig Johnson> Brisbane, Australia ___________________EI does not always indicate an “‘if’ clause.” Consider Heb 3.11; 4.3,5(same thing repeated)EI EISELEUSONTAI EIS THN KATAPAUSIN MOUwhere it seems to function as a strong negative. Or consider cases ofaposiopesis (incomplete sentences) where the thought seems to break offin the middle (Lk 19.42). Another usage is as “that” — see 4 Macc 4.7. In other words, there are a number of usages for EI which can be reviewedin BDAG.georgegfsomsel___________
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…?[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…?
[] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? George F Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Wed Dec 29 22:02:53 EST 2004
[]Hebrews 3:11; 4:3,5 [] Hebrews 3.11; 4.3,5 On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:24:34 +1000 “craig”<newsgroupstuff at swiftdsl.com.au> writes:> > > Romans 9:22-24 begins with ‘EI DE…’> > > > > > How does this work grammatically?> > > EI does not always indicate an “‘if’ clause.” Consider Heb > > 3.11; 4.3,5> > (same thing repeated)> > > > EI EISELEUSONTAI EIS THN KATAPAUSIN MOU> >> > where it seems to function as a strong negative.> > Although I believe this is Hebrew idiom carried over into LXX?> > > Or consider cases of> > aposiopesis (incomplete sentences) where the thought seems to > > break off> > in the middle (Lk 19.42). Another usage is as “that” — see > > 4 Macc 4.7. > > In other words, there are a number of usages for EI which can > > be reviewed> > in BDAG.> > > > george> > gfsomsel> > So what do you think is the usage in Rom 9:22?> —> Craig Johnson> Brisbane, Australia ___________________It is probably a form of aposiopesis. The thought does not seem to becompleted. BTW: the Hebrews passages might also be considered asaposiopesis in that it is distinctly stated that it is an oath. The formof the oath is “If X happens, then let Y happen to me” — If he is everallowed to do such-and-such, may my nose rot from my face” (or some suchconsequence). I’m on my way out right now, but will attempt to takeanother look at it tomorrow.georgegfsomsel___________
[]Hebrews 3:11; 4:3,5[] Hebrews 3.11; 4.3,5
Fw: [] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…? Robert J. Fuller, Jr. rjfjr at mn.rr.com
Mon Feb 28 22:29:54 EST 2005
[] Thank You to ALL Just a thought. Could the passage be continued in verse 30? Verses 25-29 seem to be inserted as explanatory, but the sense may continue later. If this is the case, the second part would be signaled by the OUN in verse 30.Bob FullerNew UlmAlways Forward >> Philippians 3:13,14—– Original Message —– From: “craig” <newsgroupstuff at swiftdsl.com.au>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:18 PMSubject: [] Romans 9:22-24 EI DE.. KAI HINA…?Romans 9:22-24 begins with ‘EI DE…’How does this work grammatically? It seems to me that when one begins withan ‘if’ (EI), some kind of ‘then..’ should follow. Can ‘KAI HINA’ in 9:23 betranslated ‘then also so that…’? Otherwise how is the thought begun withEI completed?Alternatively, I suppose one can end with an ‘if’ clause with the resultstated first (‘I will understand if you explain it to me’). Is that what ishappening in 9:22-24? Is 9:20-21 the result stated first or something?Or is it something else completely that I have missed?Someone please explain!:)Craig JohnsonBrisbane, Australia— home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
[] Thank You to ALL