[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 Dr. Ralph F. Wilson rfwilson at wilsonweb.com
Thu Apr 10 14:37:00 EDT 2003
[] Re: Managing the way of receiving posts by email [] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 I am trying to get the sense of the participle EIS in Ephesians 1:19, in thephrase TES DUNAMEOS AUTOU EIS HEMAS. Danker (BDAG 290, 4g) cites this verseas an example of the preposition “used as the dative, especially the dativeof advantage, but also = for in general.”Just what is the sense of EIS in this passage?= for, on behalf of?= in, into, within?or is it pretty hard to be certain?Marcus Barth translates it as “his power over us believers” which seems tomiss the characteristic sense of EIS.Any ideas? Thanks.Ralph———————————————————–Ralph F. Wilson, Director pastor at joyfulheart.comJOYFUL HEART RENEWAL MINISTRIES http://www.joyfulheart.comJesusWalk Disciple Lessons http://www.jesuswalk.comPO Box 308, Rocklin, Calif. 95677, USA (916) 652-4659———————————————————–
[] Re: Managing the way of receiving posts by email[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19
[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Apr 10 20:14:58 EDT 2003
[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 [] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 At 11:37 AM -0700 4/10/03, Dr. Ralph F. Wilson wrote:>I am trying to get the sense of the participle EIS in Ephesians 1:19, in the>phrase THS DUNAMEWS AUTOU EIS hHMAS. Danker (BDAG 290, 4g) cites this verse>as an example of the preposition “used as the dative, especially the dative>of advantage, but also = for in general.”> >Just what is the sense of EIS in this passage?>= for, on behalf of?>= in, into, within?>or is it pretty hard to be certain?> >Marcus Barth translates it as “his power over us believers” which seems to>miss the characteristic sense of EIS.One really ought to see the larger context: KAI TI TO hUPERBALLON MEGEQOSTHS DUNAMEWS AUTOU EIS hHMAS TOUS PISTEUONTAS KATA THN ENERGEIAN TOUKRATOUS THS ISCUOS AUTOU.This is part of that awesome string of genitives dependent upon othergenitives that so characterizes this section of Ephesians. I think I wouldunderstand this as a circumlocution for “what exceedingly great things Heis able (to do) FOR US in terms of the working of his mighty power.” Thatis to say, EIS hHMAS is indeed equivalent to hHMIN; Hellenistic Greek showsthe gradual movement away from use of the dative to use of prepositionsPROS and EIS with nouns and pronouns; that accounts for the very commonequivalents of LEGEI AUTWi and LEGEI PROS AUTON. In Eph 1:19 I think thedifficulty is in making EIS hHMAS depend directly upon DUNAMIS: it’s notreally “power for us” or “power unto us” so much as “power to do (things)for us.”– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19
[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Fri Apr 11 14:55:21 EDT 2003
[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19 [] septuagint versions > At 11:37 AM -0700 4/10/03, Dr. Ralph F. Wilson wrote:> >I am trying to get the sense of the participle EIS in Ephesians> 1:19, in the> >phrase THS DUNAMEWS AUTOU EIS hHMAS. Danker (BDAG 290, 4g) cites> this verse> >as an example of the preposition “used as the dative, especially> the dative of advantage, but also = for in general.”> >> >Just what is the sense of EIS in this passage?> >= for, on behalf of?> >= in, into, within?> >or is it pretty hard to be certain?> >I find it helpful to think of EIS basically as “towards”, that is,indicating direction, either in terms of location or in an extended sense,including aim, goal or purpose.> >Marcus Barth translates it as “his power over us believers”> which seems to miss the characteristic sense of EIS.Yes, “over us” does not seem to catch the meaning of EIS here.> One really ought to see the larger context: KAI TI TO hUPERBALLON MEGEQOS> THS DUNAMEWS AUTOU EIS hHMAS TOUS PISTEUONTAS KATA THN ENERGEIAN TOU> KRATOUS THS ISCUOS AUTOU.> > This is part of that awesome string of genitives dependent upon other> genitives that so characterizes this section of Ephesians. I think I would> understand this as a circumlocution for “what exceedingly great things He> is able (to do) FOR US in terms of the working of his mighty power.” That> is to say, EIS hHMAS is indeed equivalent to hHMIN; Hellenistic> Greek shows> the gradual movement away from use of the dative to use of prepositions> PROS and EIS with nouns and pronouns; that accounts for the very common> equivalents of LEGEI AUTWi and LEGEI PROS AUTON. In Eph 1:19 I think the> difficulty is in making EIS hHMAS depend directly upon DUNAMIS: it’s not> really “power for us” or “power unto us” so much as “power to do (things)> for us.”> —> > Carl W. ConradIf I may add a bit to Carl’s comments, if EIS is directional, it can referto the experiencer or recipient of an action. The recipient and beneficiaryare semantically quite close and for some verbal ideas there may be nodistinction. Normally I would expect the dative or hUPER for thebeneficiary.There are some other instances of EIS hHMAS which it may be helpful to lookat also to get a feel for the range of meanings of EIS hHMAS:Acts 3:4 BLEYON EIS hHMASRom 5:8 SUNISTHSIN DE THN hEAUTOU AGAPHN EIS hHMAS hO QEOS (love directedtowards us as recipients)Rom 8:18 THN MELLOUSAN DOXAN APOKALUFQHNAI EIS hHMAS (revealed to us asrecipients and partakers of it)2 Cor 1:5 KAQWS PERISSEUEI TA PAQHMATA TOU CRISTOU EIS hHMAS (as thesufferings of Christ abound towards us, i.e. as recipients and partakers: weexperience in great measure his sufferings.)Eph 1:7-8 KATA TO PLOUTOS THS CARITOS AUTOU hHS EPERISSEUSEN EIS hHMAS(according to the richness of his grace which he lavished towards us, againrecipients).Some of these are similar to 1:19 which talks about “the overwhelminggreatness of his power towards us who believe”. The believers must in someway be the recipients of that great power itself or the results/effects ofthe power. Carl seems to prefer the last option by supplying “to do things”and explicating “his power” to “what he is able (to do)”. This may becorrect, but I am still wondering whether it could also mean that this greatpower is available to us or that we have received that great power, not justthe results of it.Iver Larsen
[] Sense of EIS in Eph 1:19[] septuagint versions