1 John 4:19

[] 1 John 4:19 Andy Kaylor andy_kaylor at yahoo.com
Sat May 19 04:53:50 EDT 2007

[] Gender [] 1 John 4:19 I’m a newbie working through 1 John, and tonight I was looking at 1 John 4:19hHMEIS AGAPWMEN hOTI AUTOS PRWTOS HGAPHSEN hHMASMy first thought was that AGAPWMEN was subjunctive, so I Englished it as “Let us love,” then I saw that every translation I can find translates it as indicative, “We love.”But AGAPWMEN could be subjunctive or indicative, right? So is it the presence of the (emphatic?) hHMEIS that should tell me this is indicative? Or is it context? Or is there another clue I’ve missed?Thanks.Andy KaylorBeaverton, Oregon ____________________________________________________________________________________Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV’s Comedy with an Edge to see what’s on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222

[] Gender[] 1 John 4:19

[] 1 John 4:19 kgraham0938 at comcast.net kgraham0938 at comcast.net
Sat May 19 06:07:07 EDT 2007

[] 1 John 4:19 [] Referent of THN AUTHN in Heb. 6:11 Hey Andy, if you look at AGAPWMEN one more time closely you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and omicron, when they add the PN endings change.So when the alpha contracts with the omicron, it changes to omega. A + O = W.So basically you have AGAPA + OMEN = AGAPWMEN–Kelton Graham KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net————– Original message ————– From: Andy Kaylor <andy_kaylor at yahoo.com> > I’m a newbie working through 1 John, and tonight I was looking at 1 John 4:19 > > hHMEIS AGAPWMEN hOTI AUTOS PRWTOS HGAPHSEN hHMAS > > My first thought was that AGAPWMEN was subjunctive, so I Englished it as “Let us > love,” then I saw that every translation I can find translates it as indicative, > “We love.” > > But AGAPWMEN could be subjunctive or indicative, right? So is it the presence > of the (emphatic?) hHMEIS that should tell me this is indicative? Or is it > context? Or is there another clue I’ve missed? > > Thanks. > > Andy Kaylor > Beaverton, Oregon > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > ____Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV’s > Comedy with an Edge to see what’s on, when. > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 >> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ > mailing list > at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] 1 John 4:19[] Referent of THN AUTHN in Heb. 6:11

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” A. J. Birch a_j_birch at yahoo.es
Sat May 19 07:00:20 EDT 2007

[] Referent of THN AUTHN in Heb. 6:11 [] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” Kelton G. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at AGAPWMEN one more time closely you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and omicron, when they add the PN endings change. So when the alpha contracts with the omicron, it changes to omega. A + O = W. So basically you have AGAPA + OMEN = AGAPWMEN…”But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).I think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: “TEKNIA”, “AGAPHTOI”, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Andrew J. BirchPalma de Mallorca, Spain

[] Referent of THN AUTHN in Heb. 6:11[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN”

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” Carl W. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 19 10:20:13 EDT 2007

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” [] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:00AM, “A. J. Birch” <a_j_birch at yahoo.es> wrote:>Kelton G. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at AGAPWMEN one more time closely >you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that >there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and >omicron, when they add the PN endings change. So when the alpha contracts >with the omicron, it changes to omega. A + O = W. So basically you have >AGAPA + OMEN = AGAPWMEN…”> >But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex >accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).> >I think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and >maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: >“TEKNIA”, “AGAPHTOI”, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Reading the text carefully, it is pretty clear that BOTH pronoun subjects in thesetwo clauses, hHMEIS and AUTOS, are emphatic:hHMEIS AGAPWMEN hOTI AUTOS PRWTOS HGAPHSEN hHMAS I think AGAPWMEN very likely IS indicative here; the hOTI clause seemsto explain WHY we do what we do; on the other hand, the verb mightwell have hortatory force if subjunctive: “Let us keep on loving … “Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN”[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN”

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” Carl W. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 19 10:20:25 EDT 2007

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” [] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:00AM, “A. J. Birch” <a_j_birch at yahoo.es> wrote:>Kelton G. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at AGAPWMEN one more time closely >you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that >there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and >omicron, when they add the PN endings change. So when the alpha contracts >with the omicron, it changes to omega. A + O = W. So basically you have >AGAPA + OMEN = AGAPWMEN…”> >But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex >accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).> >I think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and >maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: >“TEKNIA”, “AGAPHTOI”, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Reading the text carefully, it is pretty clear that BOTH pronoun subjects in thesetwo clauses, hHMEIS and AUTOS, are emphatic:hHMEIS AGAPWMEN hOTI AUTOS PRWTOS HGAPHSEN hHMAS I think AGAPWMEN very likely IS indicative here; the hOTI clause seemsto explain WHY we do what we do; on the other hand, the verb mightwell have hortatory force if subjunctive: “Let us keep on loving … “Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN”[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN”

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” Carl W. Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat May 19 10:20:42 EDT 2007

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN” [] translating and grammatical analysis On Saturday, May 19, 2007, at 07:00AM, “A. J. Birch” <a_j_birch at yahoo.es> wrote:>Kelton G. wrote, “Hey Andy, if you look at AGAPWMEN one more time closely >you’ll see a circumflex accent over the omega. That lets you know that >there is a contraction going on. Verbs whos stem end in epsilon, alpha, and >omicron, when they add the PN endings change. So when the alpha contracts >with the omicron, it changes to omega. A + O = W. So basically you have >AGAPA + OMEN = AGAPWMEN…”> >But that doesn’t really answer Andy’s questions, because the circumflex >accent is there in both forms (the indicative and the subjunctive).> >I think Andy’s suggestions (the “hHMEIS” and the context) are relevant, and >maybe with the subjunctive we would expect what we find elsewhere in ‘John’: >“TEKNIA”, “AGAPHTOI”, or something similar, to make the exhortation clearer.Reading the text carefully, it is pretty clear that BOTH pronoun subjects in thesetwo clauses, hHMEIS and AUTOS, are emphatic:hHMEIS AGAPWMEN hOTI AUTOS PRWTOS HGAPHSEN hHMAS I think AGAPWMEN very likely IS indicative here; the hOTI clause seemsto explain WHY we do what we do; on the other hand, the verb mightwell have hortatory force if subjunctive: “Let us keep on loving … “Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

[] 1 John 4:19: “AGAPWMEN”[] translating and grammatical analysis

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