Hebrews 2:17

Heb 2:17 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Fri May 7 07:10:42 EDT 1999

Luke 4:5 UPAKOUW + case? HiDoes any one have any thoughts on the word hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? Towhat extent *like*? Is English adequate to express what this is sayingin the Greek? There are those who would want to make this to mean*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he word, mood and tensea bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase, as some translate,KATA PANTA?John===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Luke 4:5UPAKOUW + case?

Heb 2:17 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Fri May 7 07:10:42 EDT 1999

Luke 4:5 UPAKOUW + case? HiDoes any one have any thoughts on the word hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? Towhat extent *like*? Is English adequate to express what this is sayingin the Greek? There are those who would want to make this to mean*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he word, mood and tensea bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase, as some translate,KATA PANTA?John===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Luke 4:5UPAKOUW + case?

Heb 2:17 Carlton Winbery winberyc at popalex1.linknet.net
Sun May 9 21:38:23 EDT 1999

classical greek John 5:26 John Oaklands wrote;> >Does any one have any thoughts on the word hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? To>what extent *like*? Is English adequate to express what this is saying>in the Greek? There are those who would want to make this to mean>*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he word, mood and tense>a bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase, as some translate,>KATA PANTA?> I would ask to what extent we can ever translate completely from Greek toEnglish. We must try and use words, phrases, etc. that can convey what weperceive the original writer is thinking (no mean task of its own).Having said that I would point that hOMOIOW is often used in situationswhere we would say “something is like something else,” or “to what shall Iliken this?” The word in Heb. 2:17 is in what we all learned to call theaor. passive and learned to translate “to be likened” or “to be made like.”The extent to which the English word conveys the meaning of the Greek termmight be indicated by KATA PANTA “in all things,” or perhaps “completely.””He must be made like to (his) brothers in all things so that . . .” It isinteresting that the Latin has SIMILARE here. Beyond this point thisdiscussion will get somewhat Christological, which is one reason I teachNew Testament and Greek not systematic theology. I read systematic theologyout of interest and also when I have trouble falling asleep.Dr. Carlton L. WinberyFoggleman Professor of ReligionLouisiana Collegewinbery at andria.lacollege.eduwinberyc at popalex1.linknet.netPh. 1 318 448 6103 hmPh. 1 318 487 7241 off

classical greekJohn 5:26

Heb 2:17 Carlton Winbery winberyc at popalex1.linknet.net
Sun May 9 21:38:23 EDT 1999

classical greek John 5:26 John Oaklands wrote;> >Does any one have any thoughts on the word hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? To>what extent *like*? Is English adequate to express what this is saying>in the Greek? There are those who would want to make this to mean>*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he word, mood and tense>a bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase, as some translate,>KATA PANTA?> I would ask to what extent we can ever translate completely from Greek toEnglish. We must try and use words, phrases, etc. that can convey what weperceive the original writer is thinking (no mean task of its own).Having said that I would point that hOMOIOW is often used in situationswhere we would say “something is like something else,” or “to what shall Iliken this?” The word in Heb. 2:17 is in what we all learned to call theaor. passive and learned to translate “to be likened” or “to be made like.”The extent to which the English word conveys the meaning of the Greek termmight be indicated by KATA PANTA “in all things,” or perhaps “completely.””He must be made like to (his) brothers in all things so that . . .” It isinteresting that the Latin has SIMILARE here. Beyond this point thisdiscussion will get somewhat Christological, which is one reason I teachNew Testament and Greek not systematic theology. I read systematic theologyout of interest and also when I have trouble falling asleep.Dr. Carlton L. WinberyFoggleman Professor of ReligionLouisiana Collegewinbery at andria.lacollege.eduwinberyc at popalex1.linknet.netPh. 1 318 448 6103 hmPh. 1 318 487 7241 off

classical greekJohn 5:26

Heb 2:17 Edgar Krentz ekrentz at lstc.edu
Mon May 10 12:09:57 EDT 1999

FW: virus warning FW: virus warning >Hi> >Does any one have any thoughts on the word hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? To>what extent *like*? Is English adequate to express what this is saying>in the Greek? There are those who would want to make this to mean>*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he word, mood and tense>a bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase, as some translate,>KATA PANTA?> >JohnYou raise an interesting question, which reverberates in Pau’ls use ofhOMOIWMA in Rom 8:3 [cf. 6:5] and Phil 2:7. Years ago Ernst Kaesemannsuggested in his lectures on NT theology that there is a doctiraldissertation lurking in this noun and related verbs in the NT. It remainsto be written.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Edgar KrentzProfessor of New Testament EmeritusLutheran School of Theology at Chicago1100 E. 55th StreetChicago, IL 60615 USA773-256-0752e-mail: ekrentz at lstc.edu (Office) emkrentz at mcs.com (Home)+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FW: virus warningFW: virus warning

Heb 2:17 Edgar Krentz ekrentz at lstc.edu
Mon May 10 12:09:57 EDT 1999

FW: virus warning FW: virus warning >Hi> >Does any one have any thoughts on the word hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? To>what extent *like*? Is English adequate to express what this is saying>in the Greek? There are those who would want to make this to mean>*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he word, mood and tense>a bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase, as some translate,>KATA PANTA?> >JohnYou raise an interesting question, which reverberates in Pau’ls use ofhOMOIWMA in Rom 8:3 [cf. 6:5] and Phil 2:7. Years ago Ernst Kaesemannsuggested in his lectures on NT theology that there is a doctiraldissertation lurking in this noun and related verbs in the NT. It remainsto be written.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Edgar KrentzProfessor of New Testament EmeritusLutheran School of Theology at Chicago1100 E. 55th StreetChicago, IL 60615 USA773-256-0752e-mail: ekrentz at lstc.edu (Office) emkrentz at mcs.com (Home)+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FW: virus warningFW: virus warning

Heb 2:17 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Mon May 10 19:55:23 EDT 1999

classical greek, John 5:26 Adonis Say, Edgar, that’s interesting. I like the thought that some things wejust can’t adequately say in a few words. Please let me know when thatdoctoral dissertation comes out in print.John— Edgar Krentz <ekrentz at lstc.edu> wrote:> >Hi> >> >Does any one have any thoughts on the word> hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? To> >what extent *like*? Is English adequate to express> what this is saying> >in the Greek? There are those who would want to> make this to mean> >*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he> word, mood and tense> >a bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase,> as some translate,> >KATA PANTA?> >> >John> > You raise an interesting question, which> reverberates in Pau’ls use of> hOMOIWMA in Rom 8:3 [cf. 6:5] and Phil 2:7. Years> ago Ernst Kaesemann> suggested in his lectures on NT theology that there> is a doctiral> dissertation lurking in this noun and related verbs> in the NT. It remains> to be written.> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++> Edgar Krentz> Professor of New Testament Emeritus> Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago> 1100 E. 55th Street> Chicago, IL 60615 USA> 773-256-0752> e-mail: ekrentz at lstc.edu (Office)> emkrentz at mcs.com (Home)> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++> > > >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as:> j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au> To unsubscribe, forward this message to> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to> subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

classical greek, John 5:26Adonis

Heb 2:17 John Oaklands j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au
Mon May 10 19:55:23 EDT 1999

classical greek, John 5:26 Adonis Say, Edgar, that’s interesting. I like the thought that some things wejust can’t adequately say in a few words. Please let me know when thatdoctoral dissertation comes out in print.John— Edgar Krentz <ekrentz at lstc.edu> wrote:> >Hi> >> >Does any one have any thoughts on the word> hOMOIWQHNAI in Heb 2:17? To> >what extent *like*? Is English adequate to express> what this is saying> >in the Greek? There are those who would want to> make this to mean> >*equal*, but to me that seems to be stretching he> word, mood and tense> >a bit. Or does this link with the earlier phrase,> as some translate,> >KATA PANTA?> >> >John> > You raise an interesting question, which> reverberates in Pau’ls use of> hOMOIWMA in Rom 8:3 [cf. 6:5] and Phil 2:7. Years> ago Ernst Kaesemann> suggested in his lectures on NT theology that there> is a doctiral> dissertation lurking in this noun and related verbs> in the NT. It remains> to be written.> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++> Edgar Krentz> Professor of New Testament Emeritus> Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago> 1100 E. 55th Street> Chicago, IL 60615 USA> 773-256-0752> e-mail: ekrentz at lstc.edu (Office)> emkrentz at mcs.com (Home)> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++> > > >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as:> j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au> To unsubscribe, forward this message to> $subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to> subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > ===John V. Oaklands31/115 Main RoadCardiff NSW 2285AustraliaPhone 02 4954 4665FAX 02 4953 7097Email j_m_oaklands at yahoo.com.au_________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

classical greek, John 5:26Adonis

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One thought on “Hebrews 2:17

  1. Troy Day Troy Day says:

    Scriptures That Confirm That
    Christians Can Be Demonized

    1 Pet. 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

    This was spoken to Christians!

    2 Cor. 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    However, lest we become complacent as Christians, the enemy can also demonize those who are true believers.

    Ga 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

    There is nowhere in Scripture that says the Holy Spirit cannot be present with evil. This kind of idea is without biblical merit and is, in fact, a denigration of the power of God.

    Rom. 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
    Rom. 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
    Gal. 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
    Rom. 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
    2 Pet. 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
    Rev. 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

    All spoken to Christians!!

    The following passages of Scripture are some instances of demonization of believers of God, Jews and Christians, from the New Testament after Pentecost. There are also many pre-Pentecost and Old Testament references to demonization of believers, notably the stories of Job (Job 1:8-9; 2:3; 2:7); Saul (1 Sam. 16:14-16, 18:10, 19:9); the Caananite woman’s child (Matt. 15:22-28); Jesus rebuking Peter (Matt. 16:22-23); a man with a demon in a synagogue (Mark 1:23); James and John being told “you know not what spirit your are of” (Luke 9:52-56); a “daughter of Abraham” with a “spirit of infirmity” (Luke 13:11-16); and Judas being demonized by Satan (John 6:70-71, 13:27). We believe that these are all pertinent examples that bear on this discussion as we believe that the Bible is a continuous revelation of how God works with man and what the will of God is for man.

    Acts 5:1-11 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?

    An example of two Christians whose hearts were filled with satan.

    Acts 8:9-24 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is the divine power known as the Great Power.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized.

    Simon, a believer, needed deliverance from the occult. He had believed in Christ but still had the heart of an occult sorcerer. He was still a captive to sin even after he had believed and been baptized.

    1 Cor 5:1-5 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

    These verses speak of a believer filled with a spirit of lust and as a result, delivered over to satan for the destruction of his sinful nature and hopefully the salvation of his spirit. This shows that God even uses satan to bring about a turning from sin in a sinful believer. He used satan to test a faithful man like Job. Satan is God’s devil. He cannot do anything to Christians apart from the will of God. God uses satan when other methods of getting our attention have not worked.

    2 Cor. 11:3-4 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. How can our minds be lead astray from sincere and pure devotion to Christ? For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received….

    How can believers have a different spirit than the Holy Spirit? By “receiving” it without testing the spirits. This is what is being done in the current “counterfeit” revivals.

    Gal. 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.

    Paul rebukes believers for being “bewitched”. In the mildest sense of this word we could say they have been fooled or blinded. In the strongest sense we can take it literally and say that the Galations were being tempted by demons, demonized into believing that they were saved by the law and not by Jesus Christ.

    1 Tim. 1:19-20 holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

    Paul speaks of two believers who he delivered over to satan for blasphemy. This was to teach them not to blaspheme, not to send them to hell. Satan can be used by God to teach us valuable lessons as Christians.

    1 Tim. 4:1-2 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

    In latter times believers will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. I believe that the latter times are already here and this is exactly what is happening. Christians are listening to doctrines that come right out of the mouth of satan

    1 Pet. 5:8-9 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

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