Galatians 2:20

Gal 2:20 – to the Son Suedaleg at aol.com Suedaleg at aol.com
Sat Apr 29 03:12:46 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: BAGD 4th Edition delayed until July Next message: RENEW HelloI have been working on Galatians in my personal time and have come upon a few structure puzzles. The latest, and a stumper to me, is in 2:20. There we read EN PISTEI ZW THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU. To what does the article THi (dative/locative fem sing) refer? It seems to have no antecedent in this structure. The NKJV translates the verse as though it reads TWi hUIWi. I would prefer to read it :in faith I live to the ???? of the Son of God . . .any insight to this will be appreciated.Thanks. Dale Greenlee

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sat Apr 29 09:11:50 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: 1 Tim 2:12 Next message: AKHKOOTAS At 3:12 AM -0400 4/29/00, Suedaleg at aol.com wrote:>Hello> >I have been working on Galatians in my personal time and have come upon a few>structure puzzles. The latest, and a stumper to me, is in 2:20. There we>read EN PISTEI ZW THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU. To what does the article THi>(dative/locative fem sing) refer? It seems to have no antecedent in this>structure. The NKJV translates the verse as though it reads TWi hUIWi. I>would prefer to read it :in faith I live to the ???? of the Son of God . . .THi refers back to PISTEI (fem. dat. sg.); the effect of this constructionis to attach the genitive phrase TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU attributively to ENPISTEI. While semantically it is equivalent to ZW EN THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOUPISTEI, yet the rhetorical effect of the later placement is to make italmost a clarifying appositive, so that it could be conveyed in English as,”By faith I live–faith, that is, in/of God’s Son.” Of course, whether TOUhUIOU TOU QEOU is subjective or objective genitive is a different questionaltogether; in terms of the grammar either is possible and intelligible.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityOne Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Sat Apr 29 10:40:55 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Machine readable Abbot-Smith? Next message: 1 Tim 2:12 Dear Dale, You ask:>I have been working on Galatians in my personal time and have come upon a>few structure puzzles. The latest, and a stumper to me, is in 2:20.>There we read EN PISTEI ZW THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU. To what does the>article THi (dative/locative fem sing) refer? It seems to have no>antecedent in this structure. The NKJV translates the verse as though it>reads TWi hUIWi. I would prefer to read it :in faith I live to the ????>of the Son of God . . . any insight to this will be appreciated. In Gal 2:20 the phrase EN PISTEI ZW THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU involves adefinite article (THi) serving like a relative pronoun, thus translated as”which.” It agrees with PISTEI in number, gender, and case. The followinggenitive is either subjective or objective. You would translate either: “Ilive in faith which is in the Son of God” (objective genitive), or “I livein the faithfulness which is of the Son of God” (subjective genitive). DanWallace, in _Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics_, says that the preponderanceof the evidence is for the subjective genitive, but I favor the objectivegenitive at this time. There has been a lot of scholarly debate on thesubject in recent years, and Dan gives the bibliography. Dan says that prepositional phrases often drop the article, even whenthe object of the preposition is definite. Thus the full concept may be ZWEN THi PISTEI THi Tou hUIOU TOU QEOU. The construction is an attributive,adjectival one. A comparable attributive in 1 Cor 1:18 is hO LOGOS hO TOUSTAUPOU, or literally in English, “the word which is of the cross.” But wewould translate it: “the word of the cross.” So here in Gal 2:20 we wouldtranslate “I live in the faithfulness of the Son of God” (subj. gen.), or”I live in faith in the Son of God.” Since the preposition EN can have acausal or instrumental force (“by,” or “with”), it is also possible totranslate: “I live by faith in the Son of God” or “I live by thefaithfulness of the Son of God.”Yours,Harold Holmyard

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Sat Apr 29 11:47:42 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: 1 Tim 2:12 Next message: 1 Cor 14:34, KAQWS KAI hO NOMOS LEGEI <Harold>…So here in Gal 2:20 we would translate “I live in the faithfulness of theSon of God” (subj. gen.), or “I live in faith in the Son of God.” Since thepreposition EN can have a causal or instrumental force (“by,” or “with”),it is also possible to translate: “I live by faith in the Son of God” or “Ilive by the faithfulness of the Son of God.”<Bill>Sometimes Koine words appear to create English idioms when they do not. Thisis an example. In English, we say “I live by faith” and we mean “I conductmy life by faith”. But that is not a Koine idiom. The corresponding Koineidiom is “I walk by faith”. The word ZW means literally to “be alive” or”come to life” or “have life”. The tendency to read the word idiomaticallyala English leads to incredible misunderstanding.For example:”The just shall live by faith” is actually “the one who is justified byfaith shall revive”.So here, Paul is saying that He is living in the life of Christ in thefaith, not that he patterns himself after Christ.We are admonished, of course, that if we are living in the life of Christ(in the Spirit) to conduct our lives (“walk”) correspondingly:Galatians 5:25EI ZWMEN PNEUMATI PNEUMATI KAI STOICWMENGal 5:25 (KJV)”If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk [in a straight line] in theSpirit.”Bill Ross

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Sat Apr 29 13:34:37 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: STOP: 1 Cor 14:34, KAQWS KAI hO NOMOS LEGEI Next message: 1 Cor 14:34, KAQWS KAI hO NOMOS LEGEI Dear Bill, I wrote:>>So here in Gal 2:20 we would translate “I live in the faithfulness of the>>Son of God” (subj. gen.), or “I live in faith in the Son of God.” Since>>the preposition EN can have a causal or instrumental force (“by,” or>>“with”), it is also possible to translate: “I live by faith in the Son of>>God” or “I live by the faithfulness of the Son of God.” You replied:>Sometimes Koine words appear to create English idioms when they do not.>This is an example. In English, we say “I live by faith” and we mean “I>conduct my life by faith”. But that is not a Koine idiom. The>corresponding Koine idiom is “I walk by faith”. The word ZW means>literally to “be alive” or”come to life” or “have life”. The tendency to>read the word idiomatically ala English leads to incredible>misunderstanding.Bill, please check BAG (Bauer, Arndt, & Gingrich) under ZAW at definition3. ZAW can mean “live” of the conduct of life. BAG mentions that in thissignification ZAW is used with adverbs and other modifiers. It specificallylists EV PISTEI at Gal 2:20. You are limiting the sense of the word ZAW toomuch.Yours,Harold Holmyard

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Steven R. Lo Vullo sundoulos1 at netzero.net
Sat Apr 29 16:09:21 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Greek software (vocabulary quiz) Next message: Gal 2:20 – to the Son Dale,THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU functions as an adjectival phrase modifying PISTEI.Note that THi and PISTEI are both in the dative case. This is the thirdattributive position (cf. Luke 15:22; John 1:18; and the discussion byWallace, p. 307), except that instead of an adjective there is an articulargenitive noun. As Wallace notes, this pattern occurs only a few times withadjectives. A translation that might help illuminate the structure would be,”I live by faith–the faith that is directed to the Son of God.” (This, ofcourse, assumes that TOU hUIOU is an objective genitive. Even if it is not,we are still dealing with the third attributive position.) The point is thatTHi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU clarifies the object of Paul’s faith. Hope thishelps.Steve LoVullo—– Original Message —–From: <Suedaleg at aol.com>To: “Biblical Greek” < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 2:12 AMSubject: Gal 2:20 – to the Son> Hello> > I have been working on Galatians in my personal time and have come upon afew> structure puzzles. The latest, and a stumper to me, is in 2:20. There we> read EN PISTEI ZW THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU. To what does the article THi> (dative/locative fem sing) refer? It seems to have no antecedent in this> structure. The NKJV translates the verse as though it reads TWi hUIWi. I> would prefer to read it :in faith I live to the ???? of the Son of God . ..> > any insight to this will be appreciated.> > Thanks. Dale Greenlee> >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: sundoulos1 at netzero.net> To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > _____________________________________________NetZero – Defenders of the Free WorldClick here for FREE Internet Access and Emailhttp://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Ben Crick ben.crick at argonet.co.uk
Sat Apr 29 17:58:12 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Gal 2:20 – to the Son Next message: Prepositions and word order On Sat 29 Apr 2000 (03:12:46), suedaleg at aol.com wrote:> I have been working on Galatians in my personal time and have come upon> a few structure puzzles. The latest, and a stumper to me, is in 2:20.> There we read EN PISTEI ZW THi TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU. To what does the> article THi (dative/locative fem sing) refer? It seems to have no> antecedent in this structure. The NKJV translates the verse as though> it reads TWi hUIWi. I would prefer to read it :in faith I live to the> ???? of the Son of God . . . Dear Dale, The short answer is that a second PISTEI coming after THi is omitted because of its proximity to the PISTEI already there. Read as follows: EN PISTEI ZW THi [PISTEI] TOU hUIOU TOU QEOU ktl “I live by faith, by the faith of the Son of God, etc”. ERRWSQE Ben– Revd Ben Crick, BA CF <ben.crick at argonet.co.uk> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Sun Apr 30 00:19:34 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Prepositions and word order Next message: FREE – PUBLIC DOMAIN – Coptic True Type font <Harold>Bill, please check BAG (Bauer, Arndt, & Gingrich) under ZAW at definition3. ZAW can mean “live” of the conduct of life. BAG mentions that in thissignification ZAW is used with adverbs and other modifiers. It specificallylists EV PISTEI at Gal 2:20. You are limiting the sense of the word ZAW toomuch.<Bill>I stand corrected on this.One can modify ZAW and create an indiom that has the sense of “conduct”.Let me rephrase my original point:The word ZAW primarily denotes “to live, to be posessed of vitality, toexercise the functions of life”. In many instances it appears in English tobe idiomatic but is not, resulting in important misunderstanding. Case inpoint, Romans 1:17:It is not “The just person shall conduct himself faithfully”but rather”He who through faith is righteous shall live”Bill Ross

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the son Suedaleg at aol.com Suedaleg at aol.com
Sun Apr 30 03:41:52 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Gal 2:20 – to the Son Next message: 1 John Thanks for all the help and extra insight. I learned a few things I had not seen before. I failed to notice ( or forgot ) that PISTIS is feminine. The dicussion of ZAW is interesting. I did not think of its importance in this passage, though I had noticed it in past. Paul quotes Hab 4:2 three times: Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11 (connected by context to the verse in question) and Heb 10:38 (if Paul wrote Hebrews) In each of these one of the key words is emphasized by the context: Romans – the righteous ; Galations – live ; Hebrews – faith . This makes an interesting study on the nature of the life lived in faith. I have another related question here. Since this is a quotation of a Hebrew text, does the hebrew word for “live” carry the same possible meanings spoken of in Bill and Harold’s discussions?Thanks againDale Greenlee

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Steven R. LoVullo sundoulos1 at netzero.net
Sun Apr 30 02:07:42 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: FREE – PUBLIC DOMAIN – Coptic True Type font Next message: Gal 2:20 – to the son Bill,I think you are right about Romans 1: 17 in light of Paul’s teaching onjustification by faith in Romans, where the emphasis is on imputation ofrighteousness. However, the author of Hebrews appears to be using Habakkuk2: 4 in the sense of “conduct,” i.e., “the one who is righteous will live(his life) by faith in me.” The surrounding context, as well as the whole ofthe epistle with its emphasis on enduring to the end without turning back,confirms this understanding. For example, it is an “evil, unbelieving(APISTIAS) heart that falls away from the living God” (3:12). It is “thosewho through faith (PISTEWS) and patience inherit the promises” (6:12). Theauthor and his readers “are not of those who shrink back to destruction, butof those who have faith (PISTEWS) to the preserving of the soul” (10:39; cf.1 Peter 1:5). Indeed, the heroes of OT times “died in faith (PISTIN),without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomedthem from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers andexiles on the earth” (11:13). And there is no contradiction if we realizethat faith is dynamic, so that the initial faith that results injustification to life perseveres in ongoing trust in God throughout theChristian life.Steve LoVullo—– Original Message —–From: Bill Ross <wross at farmerstel.com>To: Biblical Greek < at franklin.oit.unc.edu>Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:19 PMSubject: RE: Gal 2:20 – to the Son> <Harold>> Bill, please check BAG (Bauer, Arndt, & Gingrich) under ZAW at definition> 3. ZAW can mean “live” of the conduct of life. BAG mentions that in this> signification ZAW is used with adverbs and other modifiers. Itspecifically> lists EV PISTEI at Gal 2:20. You are limiting the sense of the word ZAWtoo> much.> > <Bill>> I stand corrected on this.> > One can modify ZAW and create an indiom that has the sense of “conduct”.> > Let me rephrase my original point:> > The word ZAW primarily denotes “to live, to be posessed of vitality, to> exercise the functions of life”. In many instances it appears in Englishto> be idiomatic but is not, resulting in important misunderstanding. Case in> point, Romans 1:17:> > It is not “The just person shall conduct himself faithfully”> > but rather> > “He who through faith is righteous shall live”> > Bill Ross> > >> home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/> You are currently subscribed to as: sundoulos1 at netzero.net> To unsubscribe, forward this message to$subst(‘Email.Unsub’)> To subscribe, send a message to subscribe- at franklin.oit.unc.edu> > > _____________________________________________NetZero – Defenders of the Free WorldClick here for FREE Internet Access and Emailhttp://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Mike Sangrey mike at sojurn.lns.pa.us
Sun Apr 30 07:44:55 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: 1 John Next message: Gal 2:20 – to the son Bill Ross <wross at farmerstel.com> said:> The word ZAW primarily denotes “to live, to be posessed of vitality,> to exercise the functions of life”. In many instances it appears in> English to be idiomatic but is not, resulting in important> misunderstanding. Case in point, Romans 1:17:> It is not “The just person shall conduct himself faithfully”> but rather> “He who through faith is righteous shall live”I usually take Romans 1:17 as dual meaning. The reason for my thinking is APOKALUPTETAI EK PISTEWS EIS PISTIN. I think of EK PISTEWS as the doorway of faith we step *out* of leading *into* the hallway of faith. My thinking is Paul takes a clause hO DE DIKAIOS EK PISTEWS ZHSETAI which by itself would be ambiguous and by adding the previous clause, succinctly captures two major doctrines–justification and sanctification.FWIW,– Mike Sangreymike at sojurn.lns.pa.usLandisburg, Pa. There is no ‘do’ in faith, everywhere present within it is ‘done’.

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the son Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Sun Apr 30 07:51:24 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Gal 2:20 – to the Son Next message: Gal 2:20 – to the Son Dear Dale, You asked:>I have another related question here. Since this is a quotation of a>Hebrew text, does the hebrew word for “live” carry the same possible>meanings spoken of in Bill and Harold’s discussions? The Hebrew verb for “live” in Hab 2:4, source of the quote in Rom1:17, Gal 3:11, and Heb 10:38, is X-Y-H. In the older lexicon, BDB, Hab 2:4is listed under the following meaning: “sustain life, live on or upon [withthe preposition (L], of the animal life, by the sword (Gen 27:40), by bread(Deut 8:3); elsewhere in pregnant sense of fulness of life in divine favor,sustained by [with the preposition (L] everything that issueth out of themouth of God (Deut 8:3); his promises (?) Isa 38:16; of the wicked man, byrepentance (Ezek 33:19); with the preposition B. by the statutes andjudgments of the Lord if a man do them (Lev 18:5; Ezek 20:11, 13, 21, 25;Neh 9:29); a righteous man by his faithfulness shall live (Hab 2:4).” Since the preposition B. occurs in Hab 2:4, perhaps the closestcomparable uses of the verb would be those in Lev 18:5 ; Ezek 20:11, 13,21, 25; Neh 9:29. It is of interest, therefore, that Paul cites Lev 18:5 inGal 3:12, right after citing Hab 2:4 in Gal 3:11. The sense of “live” in Lev 18:5 seems clearly to be “sustain life” or”enjoy the fulness of life in divine favor.” Leviticus 18:5 reads: “And youwill keep My decrees and my laws; the man who does them also will live bythem. I am the Lord” (BTW, the Hebrew preposition “by,” like the Greek EN,can also mean “in”). Ezekiel 20:11, 13, 21, 25 seem to repeat the sense ofLev 18:5 in almost a quote the first three times, and in a modification ofthe quote the last time (to the negative). Nehemiah 9:29 is alsoessentially a quotation of Lev 18:5. Thus it is quite possible that Heb 2:4may be an allusion to Lev 18:5. In Heb 2:4 the word translated “faith” in the NIV is listed in BDB as):EMWNFH and has the sense “firmness, steadfastness, fidelity.” BDB lists”trust” alongside “faithfulness” as a possibility for human conduct, butsometimes the older translations used “trust” in the sense of somethingentrusted, which the Hebrew means in a couple of places. BDB might havebeen thinking of Hab 2:4 when it listed “trust” as a possible sense for theHebrew, because the KJV uses “faith” at Hab 2:4. However, I do not see oneclear example where the noun means “trust” in the sense of “faith” unlessit is Hab 2:4. On the other hand, the verbal form of the root can meantrust or believe. Habakkuk 2:4 reads: “See, puffed up, not upright, is his soul withinhim, but a righteous man by His faith will live.” These words in contextmay suggest for ):EMWNFH an idea like “steadfastness” or “faithfulness” inliving according to the standards set by the Lord. Thus it would be inconformity to the sense in Lev 18:5. Habakkuk has just spoken of arevelation that speaks concerning the end but which might linger. A personwas to wait for it, since it would not in fact be late in coming (Hab 2:3).So Habakkuk may have suggested the need for steadfastness in doing rightwhile awaiting the Lord’s accomplishment of His will. Such faithfulness, ofcourse, would be an exhibition of trust in the Lord.Yours,Harold Holmyard

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Sun Apr 30 10:01:09 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Gal 2:20 – to the son Next message: 1 John At 7:44 AM -0400 4/30/00, Mike Sangrey wrote:>Bill Ross <wross at farmerstel.com> said:>> The word ZAW primarily denotes “to live, to be posessed of vitality,>> to exercise the functions of life”. In many instances it appears in>> English to be idiomatic but is not, resulting in important>> misunderstanding. Case in point, Romans 1:17:> >> It is not “The just person shall conduct himself faithfully”> >> but rather> >> “He who through faith is righteous shall live”> >I usually take Romans 1:17 as dual meaning. The reason for my thinking is>APOKALUPTETAI EK PISTEWS EIS PISTIN. I think of EK PISTEWS as the doorway of>faith we step *out* of leading *into* the hallway of faith. My thinking is>Paul takes a clause hO DE DIKAIOS EK PISTEWS ZHSETAI which by itself would be>ambiguous and by adding the previous clause, succinctly captures two major>doctrines–justification and sanctification.I’ve heard it argued (or read–and I’m not sure where in all that I’ve readon this passage one place or another) that Paul understood ZHSETAI in thesense “will have life in the age-to-come”–i.e., will have ZWHN AIWNION,the assumption being that this is Paul’s response to the question (Mt19:16) TI AGAQON POIHSW hINA SCW ZWHN AIWNION–or the phrase EIS ZWHNEISELQEIN (Mt 18:8) or the phrase ZWHN KLHRONOMHSAI. This may have been inNygren’s commentary on Romans, but there are so many places it could havebeen. What makes this seem the more probable to me is the antithesisAPOKALUPTETAI hH DIKAIOSUNH QEOU AND APOKALUPTETAI hH ORGH QEOU right atthe beginning of the exposition in Romans–in which case then the focuswould be on the apocalyptic crisis, the impending judgment, and the basisfor “entering into life.” It is interesting to see how broad is the rangeof meanings of ZAW that people want to read this textto indicate.– Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityOne Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Ben Crick ben.crick at argonet.co.uk
Sun Apr 30 12:18:15 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: 1 John Next message: NT Greek verbs On Sat 29 Apr 2000 (23:19:34), wross at farmerstel.com wrote:> The word ZAW primarily denotes “to live, to be posessed of vitality, to> exercise the functions of life”. In many instances it appears in> English to be idiomatic but is not, resulting in important misunderstanding. I have been much intrigued by the use of the infinitive ZHN in Philippians 1:21, EMOI GAR TO ZHN CRISTOS KAI TO APOQANEIN KERDOS. To be EN CRISTWi is for Paul the definition of TO ZHN. ERRWSQE Ben– Revd Ben Crick, BA CF <ben.crick at argonet.co.uk> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (UK) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the Son Bill Ross wross at farmerstel.com
Mon May 1 00:29:54 EDT 2000

 

Next message: Gal 2:20 – to the son <?>I would prefer to read it :in faith I live to the ???? >of the Son of God .. . any insight to this will be appreciated.<Bill>I’ve spent a little time with this verse this weekend and it seems to methat Paul is saying “I live the *life* of the Son of God”.Bill Ross

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the son Steve Puluka spuluka at hotmail.com
Mon May 1 06:34:02 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Gal 2:20 – to the Son Next message: Gal 2:20 – to the son >Dale Greenlee> >I have another related question here. Since this is a quotation of a >Hebrew text, does the hebrew word for “live” carry the same possible >meanings spoken of in Bill and Harold’s discussions?Dale,While it is possible that Paul and the author of Hebrews were making their own translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, I don’t think this is likely in this case. The Septuagint Greek version of Scripture is the likely source. Here is the original text:Hab 2:4hO DE DIKAIOS hEK PISTEWS MOU ZHSETAIGalatians 3:11 reads:hO DIKAIOS hEK PISTEWS ZHSETASBoth the Romans 1:17 and Hebrews 10:38 quote the above without modification at all. I believe the author of Galations is composing a Greek work, quoting from another Greek work, for a Greek audience. This would mean any metaphor here is a Greek one and not Hebrew.Steve PulukaAdult Education InstructorByzantine Catholic Archeparcy of Pittsburgh________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the son Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Mon May 1 07:23:01 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: Gal 2:20 – to the son Next message: Discourse Analysis Dear Steve, You write:>While it is possible that Paul and the author of Hebrews were making their>own translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, I don’t think this is likely in>this case. The Septuagint Greek version of Scripture is the likely source.>Here is the original text:>Hab 2:4>hO DE DIKAIOS hEK PISTEWS MOU ZHSETAI>Galatians 3:11 reads:>hO DIKAIOS hEK PISTEWS ZHSETASSteve, this is an important point, because the ease of possibleunderstanding of the LXX with respect to faith rather than faithfulnessseems obvious. Earlier I gave reasons for seeing Hab 2:4 in the Hebrew ascarrying an implication of faith towards God, even if faithfulness was theimmediate idea. The Septuagint seems to increase the reader’s tendency tointerpret with respect to faith rather than faithfulness. Not only do the words you quoted do this, but so do the earlier wordsin Hab 2:4 LXX, which are quoted verbatim in Heb 10:38:EAN hUPOSTEILHTAI OUK EUDOKEI hH YUCH MOU EN AUTWi”If he should draw back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”The Greek contrasts the two types of people in Hab 2:4 in terms of lack offaith and faith, it seems. The Hebrew contrast may be less direct. TheHebrew term translated “puffed up” is debated but does not necessarilyimply the direct opposite of faith the way that the Greek EAN hUPOSTEILHTAIdoes. These facts may explain how Paul could take a verse which in Hebrewmay point to faithful conduct, and apply it to faith alone in Rom 1:17.Yours,Harold Holmyard

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the son Polycarp66 at aol.com Polycarp66 at aol.com
Tue May 2 06:59:28 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: sanctification-holiness Next message: Periphrastic construction “EIMI + Participle” in Acts In a message dated 5/1/2000 5:22:56 AM Central Standard Time, hholmyard at ont.com writes:<< >While it is possible that Paul and the author of Hebrews were making their >own translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, I don’t think this is likely in >this case. The Septuagint Greek version of Scripture is the likely source. >Here is the original text: >Hab 2:4 >hO DE DIKAIOS hEK PISTEWS MOU ZHSETAI >Galatians 3:11 reads: >hO DIKAIOS hEK PISTEWS ZHSETAS >>I noticed in the course of reading the Pauline corpus for the Lenten Greek Reading Group that he seems to almost slavishly follow the LXX. He may omit a word or two from time to time, but the text he uses is fairly consistently the LXX. I would therefore tend to discount his “making his own translation of the Hebrew scriptures.”gfsomsel

 

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Gal 2:20 – to the son Suedaleg at aol.com Suedaleg at aol.com
Wed May 3 00:25:28 EDT 2000

 

Previous message: koin/ classical-difference Next message: EK -EX Bill Ross wrote that he likes the translation of the part in question as “I live the *life* of the son of God”.I also like this as it makes sense, and agrees with how I have seen Paul explain the relationship with Christ elsewhere, paricularly Colossians 2:11-3:4.ThanksDale Greenlee

 

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