1 Cor 12:11 dbielby at juno.com dbielby at juno.com
Wed Oct 27 09:58:45 εδτ 1999
word order 1 Cor 12:11 παντα δε ταυτα ενεργει το ηεν και το αυτο πνευμα διαιρουν ιδια εκαστοκαθοσ BOULETAIQuestion: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How dowe know βουλεται is not referring to the ones receiving these thingsinstead of the one giving these things).Thanks.David α Bielby Vineyard Christian Fellowship Bloomington/NormalE-mail: dbielby at juno.com Phone:309-827-8292
word order1 Cor 12:11
1 Cor 12:11 Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Wed Oct 27 10:26:00 εδτ 1999
1 Cor 12:11 Matt 11:25 etc… At 8:58 αμ -0500 10/27/99, dbielby at juno.com wrote:>παντα δε ταυτα ενεργει το hEN και το αυτο πνευμα διαιρουν IDIAi hEKASTWi>καθωσ βουλεταιι‘ve corrected the transcription to reflect long vowels and iota subscriptsaccording to UBS4.>Question: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How do>we know βουλεται is not referring to the ones receiving these things>instead of the one giving these things).The subject of ενεργει is το hEN και το αυτο πνευμα; διαιρουν is a neuterptc. in agreement with that subject, and ι can’t see how καθωσ βουλεται,since it depends upon διαιρουν, can refer to anything else. Hence: “It isone and the same spirit achieve all these effects, distributing themindividually to each as it (the spirit) wishes.” ι can’t see here, at anyrate, any way of understanding that the individual referred to by hEKASTWihas any say in the matter of how the distribution is carried out; to conveythat sense, ι think the text would need to be written … διαιρουν IDIAiKAQWS hEKASTOS βουλεται … (“distributing acording as each person wishes”).Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics/Washington UniversityOne Brookings Drive/St. Louis, μο, υσα 63130/(314) 935-4018Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, μο 63130/(314) 726-5649cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
1 Cor 12:11Matt 11:25 etc…
1 Cor 12:11 Ben Crick ben.crick at argonet.co.uk
Wed Oct 27 13:12:34 εδτ 1999
Matt 11:25 etc… 1 Cor 12:11 On Wed 27 Oct 1999 (08:58:45), dbielby at juno.com wrote:> Question: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How> do we know βουλεται is not referring to the ones receiving these things> instead of the one giving these things). Dear David, If ι may re-transliterate your citation: παντα δε ταυτα – direct object ενεργει – verb το hEN και το αυτο πνευμα – subject διαιρουν – participle modifying the Subject IDIAi hEKASTWi – indirect object καθωσ βουλεται – adverbial clause modifying the Subject It does not seem likely that the phrase καθωσ βουλεται should modify the Indirect Object. If hEKASTOS were intended as the subject of βουλεται, then the construction would have to have been expanded to indicate this; e.g. διαιρουν IDIAi hEKASTWi καθωσ *hEKASTOS* βουλεται. The whole thrust of this chapter is that the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the matter of the distribution of the ξαρισματα, and does what He wills, not what we might wish him to do. Desire earnestly the best gifts (verse 31); but be content with such things as you have (Philippians 4:11). ενεργει refers back to θεοσ hO ενεργων in verse 6. Likewise παντα δε ταυτα refers back to τα παντα, and IDIAi hEKASTWi to εν πασιν in verse 6. The whole passage is a unity. ιμηο… ερρωσθε Ben– Revd Ben Crick, βα ξφ <ben.crick at argonet.co.uk> 232 Canterbury Road, Birchington, Kent, CT7 9TD (υκ) http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/crick.htm
Matt 11:25 etc…1 Cor 12:11
1 Cor 12:11 Steven Craig Miller scmiller at www.plantnet.com
Wed Oct 27 13:38:45 εδτ 1999
1 Cor 12:11 Matt 11:25 etc… To: David α Bielby,<< παντα δε ταυτα ενεργει το hEN και το αυτο πνευμα διαιρουν IDIAi hEKASTWi καθωσ βουλεται Question: What syntax rules govern who is willing in this verse. (How do we know βουλεται is not referring to the ones receiving these things instead of the one giving these things). >>The grammatical reason is that the subjects of finite verbs are generally found in the nominative case and not in the dative case. If Paul had wanted to say something more about IDIAi hEKASTWi, one would expect that he would have used a dative participle. Or he could have introduced a new subject (in the nominative case). To construe this passage so that the subject of βουλεται are those referred to in the dative phrase IDIAi hEKASTWi would be to make this passage a solecism.-Steven Craig MillerAlton, Illinois (υσα)scmiller at www.plantnet.com”There are no ultimate sources of knowledge. Every source, every suggestion is welcome; and every source, every suggestion, is open to critical examination” (Karl Popper, “Conjectures and Refutations: The Growth of Scientific Knowledge,” 1963:27).
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Kevin Smith kevin at sats.edu.za
Fri Nov 19 04:09:18 εστ 2004
[] Books for Sale [] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Hi everyone Can someone explain the use of the dative *feminine* singular here? ThanksKevin Dr Kevin SmithHead of AcademicsSA Theological Seminary Tel. +27 11 234-4440Fax +27 11 234-4445 Visit www.sats.edu.za <http://www.sats.edu.za/> the website of the SATheological Seminary and www.christianlounge.com<http://www.christianlounge.com/> for thousands of Christian resourcesand links
[] Books for Sale[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Nov 19 06:50:09 εστ 2004
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 [] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 At 11:09 αμ +0200 11/19/04, Kevin Smith wrote:>Hi everyone> >Can someone explain the use of the dative *feminine* singular here?Text: it always helps to have this before one’s eyes: παντα δε ταυταενεργει το hEN και το αυτο πνευμα διαιρουν IDIAi hEKASTWi καθωσ βουλεται.IDIAi functions here adverbially and could as well be tagged as anadverb–but in origin it is indeed a dative feminine singular adjectivegoverning an implicit noun, here probably δυναμει “capacity”, so that thetext means: meting out to each one in his own capacity as it (the spirit)wishes.”There are in fact several Greek adjectives in the dative or accusative of aparticular gender functioning as adverbs without an explicit noun in theexpression; it’s a fairly common linguistic phenomenon.– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Harold ρ. Holmyard ιιι hholmyard at ont.com
Sat Nov 20 20:02:37 εστ 2004
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 [] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 Dear Carl,>IDIAi functions here adverbially and could as well be tagged as an>adverb–but in origin it is indeed a dative feminine singular adjective>governing an implicit noun, here probably δυναμει “capacity”, so that the>text means: meting out to each one in his own capacity as it (the spirit)>wishes.”> >There are in fact several Greek adjectives in the dative or accusative of a>particular gender functioning as adverbs without an explicit noun in the>expression; it’s a fairly common linguistic phenomenon.ηη: Is it possible that IDIAi could have its antecedent in φανερωσισ in 1 Cor 12:7? The noun is feminine singular, and “manifestation” is the general term of which the items in 12:8-10 are examples. Then 12:11 would sum up with a translation like: “All these things works one and the same Spirit, with his own [manifestation] distributing to each one, as He pleases.”Yours,Harold Holmyard>—> >Carl ω. Conrad>Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)>1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243>cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>ωωω: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/>—> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
Sun Nov 21 06:16:25 εστ 2004
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11 [] Mumpsimus and Sumpsimus At 7:02 πμ -0600 11/20/04, Harold ρ. Holmyard ιιι wrote:>Dear Carl,> >>IDIAi functions here adverbially and could as well be tagged as an>>adverb–but in origin it is indeed a dative feminine singular adjective>>governing an implicit noun, here probably δυναμει “capacity”, so that the>>text means: meting out to each one in his own capacity as it (the spirit)>>wishes.”>> >>There are in fact several Greek adjectives in the dative or accusative of a>>particular gender functioning as adverbs without an explicit noun in the>>expression; it’s a fairly common linguistic phenomenon.> > >ηη: Is it possible that IDIAi could have its antecedent in φανερωσισ>in 1 Cor 12:7? The noun is feminine singular, and “manifestation” is>the general term of which the items in 12:8-10 are examples. Then>12:11 would sum up with a translation like: “All these things works>one and the same Spirit, with his own [manifestation] distributing to>each one, as He pleases.”ι don’t really think so; in view of the fact that IDIAi … DHMOSIAi ….(or vice versa) is already a common adverbial antithesis in classical AtticGreek, ι don’t think one needs to look four verses away for an applicablenoun in this instance.– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.eduWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] IDIAi in 1 Cor 12:11[] Mumpsimus and Sumpsimus