1 Thess 4:4 το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι … Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Jul 12 12:37:57 εδτ 2002
Ephesians 4:12 Perseus encountering problems The problem here is an old one and ι can still remember vividly the timewhen ι first puzzled over it, observing to myself, “the translations ofthis phrase all seem to point to one or another clear understanding ofit–but how do they reach that understanding?”ι cite the text including 4:3 so that the syntax may be clear: (3) τουτογαρ εστιν θελημα του θεου, hO hAGIASMOS hUMWN, απεξεσθαι hUMAS απο θσπορνειασ, ειδεναι hEKASTON hUMWN το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι εν hAGIASMWi KAITIMHi.My concern here is fundamentally limited to the possible understanding(s)of the phrase indicated in the above subject-header. There was a time whenthe Greek was translated so literally, as in the King James Version, thatalthough the phrase clearly enough referred to sexual behavior, the readerwas more or less free to guess what the phrase really meant:κψβ: … to possess his vessel …More recently it has come to be agreed that σκευοσ in this particularphrase must mean either “wife” or “body.” Thus νρσβ offers one andfootnotes the other:νρσβ: … to control your own body F13 …F13: Or [how to take a wife for himself]νετ is even more cautious: while indicating an interpretative preference,it notes the alternatives:νετ: … to possess his own body4 …4tn Grk “to gain [or possess] his own vessel.” “Vessel” is most likelyused figuratively for “body” (cf. 2 Cor 4:7). Some take it to mean”wife” (thus, “to take a wife for himself” or “to live with his wife”),but this is less likely. See ψ. Smith, “1 Thess 4:4-Breaking theImpasse,” ββρ 10 (Fall 2000), who argues that “vessel” in this contextis very likely a euphemism for the sexual organs.My own search of our archives has brought to light only one significantthread on this matter, initiated by Jay Adkins on 3/29/2000 and continuingthrough 4/01/2000, with subject-header, “1Thes 4:4 Can σκευοσ be used as aeuphemism for male genitalia?” α “Yes” answer to that question was upheldby at least one list-member then and ι know for certain that at least onelist-member upholds it now. ι readily grant that σκευοσ can, in somecircumstances mean “penis” (just as ι‘ve heard “tool” used in colloquialEnglish for “penis.”), but ι am personally convinced that σκευοσ here andalso in 1 Peter 3:7 must mean “woman as a sexual partner,” i.e. “wife.” Itcannot possibly, ι think, mean either “penis” or “body.” My reason is thatI have not seen a scintilla of evidence that κταομαι can mean “control” or”gain mastery over” so that the combination το hEAUTOU σκευοσ KTASQAIshould be equivalent to εγκρατευεσθαι, which βδαγ glosses as “to keep one’semotions, impulses or desires under control, control oneself …” While theperfect tense has the stative sense of “possess” in the sense “hold asproperty,” the primary sense in other tenses is “acquire as property”(including, by way of metaphorical extension, a bad reputation ortroubles/woes, so that the essential sense is “get” or “acquire.” Surgicalsex-change procedures of recent origin may make it possible for one bornfemale to “acquire one’s very own penis”–but ι don’t think that is whatPaul was talking about in 1 Thess 4:4 and ι think that the same difficultyresides in the notion of “acquiring one’s own body.” ι can conceive in avague sort of sense κεκθσθαι το hEAUTOU σκευοσ as “be the owner of one ownbody as a piece of property”–but we’re still talking about POSSESSIONrather exercising functions of one’s body.One won’t find anything helpful on κτασθαι in λσψ. In Louw & Nida we find adiscussion of this phrase at #23.63:23.63 σκευοσ κταομαι i: (an idiom, literally ‘to possess a vessel’) aeuphemistic manner of referring to sexual relations – ‘sexual life.’ TOhEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι εν hAGIASMWi και TIMHi vØ ‘each one’s sexual lifeshould be holy and honorable’ 1Th 4:4. It is also possible to understandSKEUOS in 1Th 4:4 as one’s wife (see 10.55). σκευοσ in 1Th 4:4 may also beunderstood as one’s body, and therefore the phrase το hEAUTOU σκευοσκτασθαι may be rendered as ‘to control his own body’ (see 8.6).But no explanation is offered for how κτασθαι can bear that meaning. If welook at λ&ν #8.6, we read σκευοσ, OUS8.6 σκευοσ, ουσ n: (a figurative extension of meaning of σκευοσ a ‘object,thing, instrument,’ 6.1, or of σκευοσ b ‘vessel,’ 6.118) the human body -‘body.’ hEKASTON hUMWN το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι ‘each one of you shouldlearn to gain mastery over his own body’ 1Th 4:4. It is also possible tointerpret σκευοσ in 1Th 4:4 as meaning ‘wife,’ and for a discussion of thismeaning and some of the problems involved in translation, see 10.55. Afurther alternative meaning, and one closely related to the meaning of’body’ is ‘sexual life,’ so that this expression in 1Th 4:4 might berendered as ‘each of you must gain mastery over his sexual life’ or, in theform το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι εν hAGIASMWi και TIMHi vØ, ‘your sexual lifeshould be holy and honorable’ (see 23.63).But here too there is no explanation of how κτασθαι can have the sense”gain mastery over.” Finally, there is #10.55:10.55 σκευοσ, ουσ n: (a figurative extension of meaning of σκευοσ b’vessel,’ 6.118) a woman married to a man, with focus upon the sexualrelation – ‘wife.’ ειδεναι hEKASTON hUMWN το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι ENhAGIASMWi και TIMHi vØ ‘that each one of you know how to take a wife forhimself in holiness and honor’ 1Th 4:4. The interpretation of σκευοσ in 1Th4:4 has given rise to serious divisions of opinion as noted in 8.6, whereSKEUOS is interpreted as designating a person’s own body. Theinterpretation of σκευοσ as ‘wife’ is based upon a number ofconsiderations. In the first place, the verb κτασθαι ‘to get, to acquire'(57.58) does not normally go with ‘body,’ while it fits well with themeaning of ‘wife.’ On the other hand, σκευοσ meaning ‘wife’ is nowhere elseattested in Greek but is assumed in 1Th 4:4 to refer to a wife primarily onthe strength of the particular interpretation of the context, in whichPORNEIA ‘immorality’ (88.271) in verse 3 and εν παθει επιθυμιασ ‘with alustful desire’ (25.30) in verse 5 are assumed to point to the meaning ofSKEUOS as ‘wife.’ In ancient Jewish literature a wife was euphemisticallycalled a ‘vessel’ in contexts relating to sexual relations, and ‘vessel’ isa very common meaning of σκευοσ in Greek. If, therefore, one assumes aSemitic background for this Greek text, the statement in 1Th 4:4 wouldrefer to the need for sexual life to be both holy and honorable (see 23.63).And this, ι think, is the most reasonable accounting for the expression wehave in 1 Thess 4:4.What of βδαγ? The relevant portion of the entry is (3), which ι shall citein entirety:σκευοσ, ουσ, το (Aristoph., Thu. +) …(3) a human being exercising a function, instrument, vessel (fig. ext. of 1or 2 (Polyb. 13, 5, 7 δαμοκλησ hUPHRETIKON ην σκευοσ) for Christ Paul is aSKEUOS εκλογησ, a chosen instrument (Ac 9:15.-Of the body, in which theSpirit dwells (cp. TestNapht 8:6 hO διαβολοσ οικειουται αυτον hWS ιδιονσκευοσ; ApMos 16 γενου μοι σκευοσ; and the magical prayer in FPradel,Griech. u. südital. Gebete 1907, p.9,11f εχορκιζω σε εχελθειν απο τουσκευουσ τουτου) Hm 5,1,2 Christ’s body as το σκευοσ του πνευματοσ thevessel of the Spirit β 7:3; 11:9; cp. το καλον σκευοσ 21:8 (of the humanbody, as ApcSed 11:5 [p. 123, 17 Ja.] ω ξειρεσ … δι‘ hAS το σκευοστρεφεται; cp 10 (In. 25 Ja.]; 11 [In. 27 Ja.]). Of the human body asOSTRAKINA σκευη 2 Cor 4:7, s. οστρακινοσ. Those who are lost are σκευηοργησ Ro 9:22 (cp. Jer. 27:25.-CDodd, ψτσ 5, ’54, 247f. instruments ofjudgment; sim. AHanson, ψτσ 32, ’81, 433-43), those who are saved σκευηελεουσ vs. 23.Here’s the meat of the account: – 1 Pt 3:7 woman is called ασθενεστερον σκευοσ (ασθενησ 2a). TOhEAUTOU σκευοσ 1 Th 4:4 from antiquity has been interpreted to mean one’sown body (Theodoret, Calvin, Milligan, Schlantz, MDibelius, RKnox transl.’44; ξξδ transl. ’41, mg.; νρσβ) or one’s own wife (Theodore of Mopsuestia,Schmiedel, vDobschütz, Frame, Oepke, WVogel, ThBl 13, ’34, 83-85; ρσβ etal.) The former interpr. is supported by passages cited at the beg. of thissection 3, and the latter is in accord w. rabb. usage (Billerb. ιιι 632f.σ. also κταομαι 1). Also probable for 1 Th 4:4 is ‘penis’ (so Antistius (ιαδ) in Anthol. Plan. 4, 243; Aelian, να 17, 11; cp. the euphemistic Lat.’vasa’ in this sense: Plautus, Poenulus. 863; s. MPoole, SynopsisCriticorum Ali. Sacrae Script., rev. ed. 1694, β col. 908; on sim. usage atQumran s. TElgvin, ντσ 43, ’97, 604-19; ναβ [1970] renders guarding hismember [difft. rev. ed. of ναβ, 1986]. Cp. KDonfried, ντσ 31, ‘895, 342).In such case κτασθαι must mean something like ‘gain control of’, etc. –δελγ, μ–μ, εδντ, τω.This is a nice compilation of ways in which σκευοσ in 1 Thess 4:4 has beeninterpreted, but to me the telling observation is “In such case KTASQAImust mean something like ‘gain control of’, etc.” ι simply do not believethat the case can be made for taking κτασθαι in that sense, even ifinterpreters of this text are insistent on making σκευοσ mean either”penis” or “body.” ι really don’t think we can make the Greek mean whateverwe want it to mean.– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu ορ cwconrad at ioa.comWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
Ephesians 4:12Perseus encountering problems
1 Thess 4:4 το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι … Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Sat Jul 13 07:10:28 εδτ 2002
Gal 4:4 (Some thoughts on a new να) 1 Thess 4:4 το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι … Dear Carl,Thanks for the compilation of thoughts on this verse. It is not absoslutelyclear to me what your conclusion is. My understanding is – and was – that itrefers to “acquiring in a holy an honorable way a woman to be one’s wife”which is how the vast majority of Bible translators have understood it. Asfar as ι can see you agree. What ways are honorable is a matter of culture,religious convictions and personal ethics.<snip>> νρσβ: … to control your own body F13 …> F13: Or [how to take a wife for himself]<snip>> One won’t find anything helpful on κτασθαι in λσψ. In Louw & Nida> we find a discussion of this phrase…:<snip>> 10.55 σκευοσ, ουσ n: (a figurative extension of meaning of σκευοσ b> ‘vessel,’ 6.118) a woman married to a man, with focus upon the sexual> relation – ‘wife.’ ειδεναι hEKASTON hUMWN το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι εν> hAGIASMWi και TIMHi vØ ‘that each one of you know how to take a wife for> himself in holiness and honor’ 1Th 4:4.<snip> In ancient Jewish literature a wife was euphemistically> called a ‘vessel’ in contexts relating to sexual relations, and> ‘vessel’ is a very common meaning of σκευοσ in Greek. If, therefore, oneassumes a> Semitic background for this Greek text, the statement in 1Th 4:4 would> refer to the need for sexual life to be both holy and honorable> (see 23.63). And this, ι think, is the most reasonable accounting for theexpression we> have in 1 Thess 4:4.What does “this” refer to?Sexual life with an already acquired wife or an honorable way of acquiring awife? If the verb means “acquire” the second seems more likely.> > What of βδαγ?> > Here’s the meat of the account:> – 1 Pt 3:7 woman is called ασθενεστερον σκευοσ (ασθενησ 2a). το> hEAUTOU σκευοσ 1 Th 4:4 from antiquity has been interpreted to mean one’s> own body (Theodoret, Calvin, Milligan, Schlantz, MDibelius, RKnox transl.> ’44; ξξδ transl. ’41, mg.; νρσβ) or one’s own wife (Theodore of> Mopsuestia, Schmiedel, vDobschütz, Frame, Oepke, WVogel, ThBl 13, ’34,83-85; ρσβ et> al.) The former interpr. is supported by passages cited at the> beg. of this section 3, and the latter is in accord w. rabb. usage(Billerb. ιιι 632f.> σ. also κταομαι 1).Iver Larsen
Gal 4:4 (Some thoughts on a new να)1 Thess 4:4 το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι …
Sat Jul 13 08:46:48 εδτ 2002
1 Thess 4:4 το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι … Ephesians 4:12 At 1:10 πμ +0200 7/13/02, Iver Larsen wrote:>Dear Carl,> >Thanks for the compilation of thoughts on this verse. It is not absoslutely>clear to me what your conclusion is. My understanding is – and was – that it>refers to “acquiring in a holy an honorable way a woman to be one’s wife”>which is how the vast majority of Bible translators have understood it. As>far as ι can see you agree. What ways are honorable is a matter of culture,>religious convictions and personal ethics.ι agree that “acquiring in a holy an honorable way a woman to be one’swife” is what the phrase must mean. Whether that’s what “the vast majorityof Bible translators have understood it (to be)” is less clear to me: inchecking translations ι‘ve found what seems to me a growing tendency tounderstand σκευοσ in 1 Thess 4:4 as “one’s own body” and a rather smallminority seriously believing that σκευοσ = “penis.” ι‘ve tried to show thatboth these interpretations are untenable unless one twists the sense ofKTASQAI into something which absolutely no evidence shows that it can mean.ι became more curious about this question when asked (off-list) recentlyabout what seems (to me, at least) to be a strange interlacing ofutilitarian terminology and tender sentiment in 1 Peter 3:7 :hOI ανδρεσ hOMOIWS, συνοικουντεσ κατα γνωσιν hWS ASQENESTERWi σκευει TWiGUNAIKEIWi, απονεμοντεσ τιμην hWS και συγκληρονομοισ ξαριτοσ ζωησ εισ το μηεγκοπτεσθαι τασ προσευξασ hUMWNas well as in our text under consideration το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι ENhAGIASMWi και TIMHi What ι mean is that σκευοσ is just about as utilitariana term that one can find in ancient Greek, perhaps even as varied in usageas ξῥμα (“thing,” “implement,” or the like, in the plural “funds” or”money”). σκευοσ really means “utensil” and while in the plural quitecommonly used for “gear” or “furnishings,” it is most commonly used in thesingular for “container,” particularly, ι suppose, for a container ofsomething fluid or loose–and in the ancient world, that is essentially theceramic pot of widely-varied shape and size. Perhaps it’s not surprisingthat σκευοσ should be used of a person as an instrument in a very positivesense, as in the oracular language of Acts 9:15 where God describes Paul asSKEUOS εκλογησ μοι … του βαστασαι το ονομα μου ενωπιον εθνων τε καιβασιλεων hUIWN τε ισραηλ. It seems a little stranger that Paul in Romans9:22f. should speak of those destined for salvation and for damnationrespectively as σκευη οργησ καθρτισμενα εισ απωλειαν and σκευη ελεουσ hAPROHTOIMASEN εισ δοχαν–i.e. “wrath-pots” and “mercy-pots.” And in asimilar manner it seems to me that σκευοσ in 1 Thess 4:4 and in 1 Peter 3:7means essentially “sex-pot”–not in the colloquial slang sense which thatphrase carries in contemporary English, or at least not with the sameconnotation–yet nevertheless essentially “person serving the function ofsexual partner.” And that, ι think, is how σκευοσ should be understood inthese passages. In a ‘relatively’ literal translation ι would turn 1 Thess3:3-4 into: “This is God’s will, your consecration: that you abstain fromsexual immorality and that each of you should know how to get his ownsexual partner in a way that consecrates and honors (her).” ι‘m tempted towrite “it” for “her,” primarily because ι think the neuter σκευοσ isimplicit, but ι don’t doubt that Paul is referring to a female sexualpartner, as is made explicit in the corresponding text in 1 Peter 3:7.At a later point in your response you wrote:>> … Semitic background for this Greek text, the statement in 1Th 4:4 would>> refer to the need for sexual life to be both holy and honorable>> (see 23.63). And this, ι think, is the most reasonable accounting for the>>> expression we have in 1 Thess 4:4.> >What does “this” refer to?>Sexual life with an already acquired wife or an honorable way of acquiring a>wife? If the verb means “acquire” the second seems more likely.To which ι would respond that the text explicitly names the latter, butdoes, ι think, imply inclusively the former. That is to say, myunderstanding is that here, as in 1 Cor 7, Paul understands sexuality as anessential aspect of being human but also as an urgency that requires an”outlet.” As πορνεια is not a permissible “outlet,” one should acquire asexual partner in a way that consecrates and honors her. ι really think itis implicit that “acquire a sexual partner in a way that consecrates andhonors her” means “if one doesn’t already have such a σκευοσ.”ι hope that this clarifies anything that was unclear in my earlier post.While it may be true, as Iver asserts, that this is the way in which 1Thess 4:4 has most commonly been understood by translators over thecenturies, my own observation is that translators over the centuries haveconverted σκευοσ into “vessel” and refrained from making the sense intendedas clear as they ought; then in recent years there has been a tendency tounderstand σκευοσ in different ways–quite erroneously, in my opinion.– Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu ορ cwconrad at ioa.comWWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
1 Thess 4:4 το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι …Ephesians 4:12
Sat Jul 13 11:43:11 εδτ 2002
ερξεσθαι, 1 ερξεσθαι, 1 > > ι hope that this clarifies anything that was unclear in my earlier post.> While it may be true, as Iver asserts, that this is the way in which 1> Thess 4:4 has most commonly been understood by translators over the> centuries, my own observation is that translators over the centuries have> converted σκευοσ into “vessel” and refrained from making the> sense intended> as clear as they ought; then in recent years there has been a tendency to> understand σκευοσ in different ways–quite erroneously, in my opinion.Yes, it does. Thank you. And you are also right that many recenttranslations have gone for the “body” option, so ι retract my hastystatement. ι was probably biased by the fact that all Danish versions ι knowof have taken the “acquiring a wife” option. (Except the latest from 1992which unfortunately changed to “have a wife”.) ι am happy that we are inagreement, and ι‘ll do my best to persuade my translation colleagues tofollow ρσβ as the one which best reflects the intended meaning of the Greektext in its context.Thanks again,Iver Larsen
ερξεσθαι, 1ERCESQAI, 1
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 James & Ali Stone stonesinafrica at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 19 12:45:27 εδτ 2006
[] 1st year Greek reading material [] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Hi allI was wondering if someone would mind giving some pros and cons for translating σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 as:1) “body”2) “vessel”3) “wife”4) another alternative?Thanks,James StoneGeorge Whitefield CollegeCape Town, South Africa ———————————Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
[] 1st year Greek reading material[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Carl ω. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Thu Oct 19 13:43:24 εδτ 2006
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 [] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 On Oct 19, 2006, at 12:45 πμ, James & Ali Stone wrote:> Hi all> > ι was wondering if someone would mind giving some pros and cons for > translating σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 as:> > 1) “body”> 2) “vessel”> 3) “wife”> 4) another alternative?Check the archives. My own fullest contributions are:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-July/021814.htmlhttp://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-July/021820.htmlCarl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Webb webb at selftest.net
Thu Oct 19 14:24:33 εδτ 2006
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 [] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 Dear Carl,ι‘ve read your posts, which are very illuminating. ι wonder if the middleform of κτασθαι in το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι could open the possibility thatPaul might mean “exercise ownership of his own body”. That would make senseof the whole context to me if it were possible. Paul sees the body as avessel for which the person is responsible, comparing it elsewhere, forexample, to a tent that we live in (2 Cor. 5:1). But without the perfecttense form, ι am dubious.But ι have to admit my interest in the outcome–not wanting to have to admitto people that Paul used instrumentalizing language about women’s bodies.Webb Mealy—–Original Message—–From: -bounces at lists.ibiblio.org[mailto:-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl ω. ConradSent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:43 AMTo: James & Ali StoneCc: at lists.ibiblio.orgSubject: Re: [] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4On Oct 19, 2006, at 12:45 πμ, James & Ali Stone wrote:> Hi all> > ι was wondering if someone would mind giving some pros and cons for > translating σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 as:> > 1) “body”> 2) “vessel”> 3) “wife”> 4) another alternative?Check the archives. My own fullest contributions are:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-July/021814.htmlhttp://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-July/021820.htmlCarl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/— home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/
Thu Oct 19 14:54:00 εδτ 2006
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 [] Is Thucydides helpful reading material? On Oct 19, 2006, at 2:24 πμ, Webb wrote:> Dear Carl,> ι‘ve read your posts, which are very illuminating. ι wonder if the > middle> form of κτασθαι in το hEAUTOU σκευοσ κτασθαι could open the > possibility that> Paul might mean “exercise ownership of his own body”. That would > make sense> of the whole context to me if it were possible. Paul sees the body > as a> vessel for which the person is responsible, comparing it elsewhere, > for> example, to a tent that we live in (2 Cor. 5:1). But without the > perfect> tense form, ι am dubious.κταομαι is what ι prefer to call a middle (rather than “deponent” verb: there is no active form at all: one always acquires “for oneself.” Moreover, this verb doesn’t mean “exercise ownership” but “get ownership” and its perfect, κεκθμαι, means “own.”> But ι have to admit my interest in the outcome–not wanting to have > to admit> to people that Paul used instrumentalizing language about women’s > bodies.ι suspect that the ancients were less squeamish about this; Greeks spoke readily of “tools” (hOPLA) and “vessels” or “gear” (σκευη) and “chattels” (κθματα), using such words indiscriminately of persons and things.> —–Original Message—–> From: -bounces at lists.ibiblio.org> [mailto:-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl ω. Conrad> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:43 αμ> To: James & Ali Stone> Cc: at lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4> > > On Oct 19, 2006, at 12:45 πμ, James & Ali Stone wrote:> >> Hi all>> >> ι was wondering if someone would mind giving some pros and cons for>> translating σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4 as:>> >> 1) “body”>> 2) “vessel”>> 3) “wife”>> 4) another alternative?> > Check the archives. My own fullest contributions are:> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-July/021814.html> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail//2002-July/021820.html> > Carl ω. Conrad> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243> cwconrad2 at mac.com> ωωω: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/> > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/Carl ω. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Retired)1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, νξ 28714/(828) 675-4243cwconrad2 at mac.comWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
[] σκευοσ in 1 Thessalonians 4:4[] Is Thucydides helpful reading material?