Ephesians 5:19

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com
Tue Jul 20 01:33:44 EDT 2010

[] the meaning of salt in Mat 5:13 [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19 YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16 The above words are usually rendered “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs” in Bible translations, with PNEUMATIKOS qualifying only “songs.” Is there any grammatical objection to translating these words as “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs,” with the adjective qualifying all three nouns? Am I right in thinking that the same ambiguity exists in YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as in the English phrase “spiritual songs, psalms and hymns,” where “spiritual” can be taken as qualifying all three nouns or only the first. In my next post I will explain the reason for my inquiry. Leonard Jayawardena _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

[] the meaning of salt in Mat 5:13[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 dlpost at comcast.net dlpost at comcast.net
Wed Jul 21 09:04:41 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 It certainly could read that way, however Psalms are already considered “spiritual” as well as “hymns,” but “songs” are not necessarily “spiritual.” For your consideration. Doug Post —– Original Message —– From: “Leonard Jayawardena” <leonardj at live.com> To: at lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:33:44 AM Subject: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;        Colossians 3:16 YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19   YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16   The above words are usually rendered “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs” in Bible translations, with PNEUMATIKOS qualifying only “songs.” Is there any grammatical objection to translating these words as “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs,” with the adjective qualifying all three nouns?   Am I right in thinking that the same ambiguity exists in YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as in the English phrase “spiritual songs, psalms and hymns,” where “spiritual” can be taken as qualifying all three nouns or only the first.   In my next post I will explain the reason for my inquiry.     Leonard Jayawardena                                                    _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969 — home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.org http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 Sarah Madden sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
Wed Jul 21 09:26:41 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16 One minor grammar note that no one has addressed, and that will solve themystery of which word(s) the adjective is describing: Since the adjective isfeminine, and the only feminine word in this group is WiDAIS (songs), thenthe proper translation is “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs” — but not”spiritual psalms and hymns and songs.”YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16SarahMarylandsarah.r.madden at gmail.comOn Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:04 AM, <dlpost at comcast.net> wrote:> > > It certainly could read that way, however Psalms are already considered> “spiritual” as well as “hymns,” but “songs” are not necessarily “spiritual.”> For your consideration.> > Doug Post> —– Original Message —–> From: “Leonard Jayawardena” <leonardj at live.com>> To: at lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:33:44 AM> Subject: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians> 5:19; Colossians 3:16> > > > YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19> > YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16> > The above words are usually rendered “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs” in> Bible translations, with PNEUMATIKOS qualifying only “songs.” Is there any> grammatical objection to translating these words as “spiritual psalms, hymns> and songs,” with the adjective qualifying all three nouns?> > Am I right in thinking that the same ambiguity exists in YALMOIS KAI> hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as in the English phrase “spiritual songs,> psalms and hymns,” where “spiritual” can be taken as qualifying all three> nouns or only the first.> > In my next post I will explain the reason for my inquiry.> > > Leonard Jayawardena> > > _________________________________________________________________> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.> https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969> —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> — Sarah ><>sarah.r.madden at gmail.comwork: 301.429.8189

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16 Barry nebarry at verizon.net
Wed Jul 21 10:06:34 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 —– Original Message —– From: “Sarah Madden” <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>To: <dlpost at comcast.net>Cc: “Leonard Jayawardena” <leonardj at live.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:26 AMSubject: Re: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16> One minor grammar note that no one has addressed, and that will solve the> mystery of which word(s) the adjective is describing: Since the adjective > is> feminine, and the only feminine word in this group is WiDAIS (songs), then> the proper translation is “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs” — but > not> “spiritual psalms and hymns and songs.”> > YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19> YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16Sarah, it’s also possible an adjective modifying the last item in a series, while in technical grammatical agreeement with that last item, to be understood as modifying each noun in the series. Only context will clarify, and context is sometimes diffcult to see due to theological commitments… :)N.E. Barry HofstetterClassics and Bible Instructor, TAAhttp://www.theamericanacademy.net(2010 Savatori Excellence in Education Winner)Mentor, TNARShttp://www.tnars.nethttp://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/bloghttp://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 Sarah Madden sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
Wed Jul 21 10:25:34 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16 [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 Barry –I thought that only applied if the adjective was, say, masculine, but that afeminine adjective was restricted to modify only a feminine noun. Correct meif I’m wrong.SarahOn Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Barry <nebarry at verizon.net> wrote:> > —– Original Message —– From: “Sarah Madden” <> sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>> To: <dlpost at comcast.net>> Cc: “Leonard Jayawardena” <leonardj at live.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:26 AM> Subject: Re: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;> Colossians 3:16> > > > One minor grammar note that no one has addressed, and that will solve the>> mystery of which word(s) the adjective is describing: Since the adjective>> is>> feminine, and the only feminine word in this group is WiDAIS (songs), then>> the proper translation is “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs” — but>> not>> “spiritual psalms and hymns and songs.”>> >> YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19>> YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16>> > > Sarah, it’s also possible an adjective modifying the last item in a series,> while in technical grammatical agreeement with that last item, to be> understood as modifying each noun in the series. Only context will clarify,> and context is sometimes diffcult to see due to theological commitments…> 🙂> > N.E. Barry Hofstetter> Classics and Bible Instructor, TAA> http://www.theamericanacademy.net> (2010 Savatori Excellence in Education Winner)> Mentor, TNARS> http://www.tnars.net> > http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog> http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry> > > —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> — Sarah ><>sarah.r.madden at gmail.comwork: 301.429.8189

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 21 11:27:05 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16 [] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7   “But one adjective with the gender of one of the substantives is by no means uncommon. Thus in Heb. 9:9, Robertson, A.T. A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, p 412. Logos, 1919; 2006.   δῶρά τε καὶ θυσίαι μὴ δυνάμεναι, the last substantive is followed, while in Heb. 3:6, ἐὰν τὴν παρρησίαν καὶ τὸ καύχημα μέχρι τέλους βεβαίαν κατάσχωμεν, the first rules in gender. Per contra note υἱὸν ἄρσενin Rev. 12:5. Radermacher (N. T. Gr., p. 86) cites φίλε τέκνονfrom the Iliad, XXII, 84.” georgegfsomsel … search for truth, hear truth, learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the truth till death.- Jan Hus_________ ________________________________From: Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>To: Barry <nebarry at verizon.net>Cc: at lists.ibiblio.orgSent: Wed, July 21, 2010 7:25:34 AMSubject: Re: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16Barry –I thought that only applied if the adjective was, say, masculine, but that afeminine adjective was restricted to modify only a feminine noun. Correct meif I’m wrong.SarahOn Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Barry <nebarry at verizon.net> wrote:> > —– Original Message —– From: “Sarah Madden” <> sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>> To: <dlpost at comcast.net>> Cc: “Leonard Jayawardena” <leonardj at live.com>; < at lists.ibiblio.org>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:26 AM> Subject: Re: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;> Colossians 3:16> > > > One minor grammar note that no one has addressed, and that will solve the>> mystery of which word(s) the adjective is describing: Since the adjective>> is>> feminine, and the only feminine word in this group is WiDAIS (songs), then>> the proper translation is “psalms and hymns and spiritual songs” — but>> not>> “spiritual psalms and hymns and songs.”>> >> YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS-Ephesians 5:19>> YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS–Colossians 3:16>> > > Sarah, it’s also possible an adjective modifying the last item in a series,> while in technical grammatical agreeement with that last item, to be> understood as modifying each noun in the series.  Only context will clarify,> and context is sometimes diffcult to see due to theological commitments…> 🙂> > N.E. Barry Hofstetter> Classics and Bible Instructor, TAA> http://www.theamericanacademy.net> (2010 Savatori Excellence in Education Winner)> Mentor, TNARS> http://www.tnars.net> > http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog> http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry> > > —> home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/> — Sarah ><>sarah.r.madden at gmail.comwork: 301.429.8189— home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/ mailing list at lists.ibiblio.orghttp://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;Colossians 3:16[] The Use of the Greek Participle in Rev 17:7

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com
Thu Jul 22 05:21:44 EDT 2010

[] Is it the same thing? [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ LALOUNTES hEAUTOIS [EN] YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS, hADONTES KAI YALLONTES THi KARDIA hUMWN TWi KURIWi–Ephesians 5:19DIDASKONTES KAI NOUQETOUNTES hAOUTOUS YALMOIS hUMNOIS WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS EN [THi] CARITI, hADONTES EN TAIS KARDIAIS hUMWN TWi QEWi–Colossians 3:16Thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry.Now that we have got any grammatical objection to translating “YALMOIS (KAI) hUMNOIS (KAI) WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” out of the way–as George F. Somsel mentioned, Robertson cites DWRA TE KAI QUSIAI MH DUNAMENAI (Heb. 9:9), where the adjective takes the gender of the last noun, which is feminine–the path is clear for me to show that the translation “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” better expresses the apostle Paul’s intention.1. The traditional translation would normally be explained by postulating that PNEUMATIKAIS qualifies WiDAIAS to distinguish it from secular songs, with YALMOIS and hUMNOIS understood as already possessing a religious connotation and so not needing a qualification with PNEUMATIKOS. This is the way R. C. Trench explains it: “St. Paul, on the two occasions when he employs it, adds [PNEUMATIKH] to it; and this, no doubt, because WiDH by itself might mean any kind of song, as of battle, of harvest, or festal, or hymeneal, while [YALMOS], from its Hebrew use, and [hUMNOS] from its Greek, did not require any such qualifying adjective” (“Synonyms of the New Testament,” lxxviii, p. 300). He further says, “it was of the essence of a Greek [hUMNOS] that it should be addressed to, or be otherwise in praise of, a god, or of a hero, that is, in the strictest sense of the word, of a deified man…” (ibid, p. 297). “In all probability the psalms of Ephes. v. 19, Col. iii. 16, are the inspired psalms of the Hebrew camon” (ibid., p. 296).But I think that not only YALMOS but all three words refer to the contents of the book of Psalms. As Trench himself writes, “The Psalms of the O.T. remarkably have no single, well recognized, universally accepted name by which they are designated in the Hebrew Scriptures. … They first obtained such in the Septuagint” (ibid, p. 296). It is true that the book of Psalms is designated YALMOI in LXX but all three words, viz., YALMOS, hUMNOS and WiDH, appear numerous times in the book of Psalms in the Septuagint. For example, the title of Psalm 75 in LXX reads EIS TO TELOS, EN UMNAIS, YALMOS TWi ASAF, WiDH PROS TON ASSURION (“For the end, among the Hymns, a Psalm for Asaph; a Song for the Assyrian”). None of the three words is an exclusively biblical word and all appear in the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures.The verb hUMNEW occurs four times in the NT. In Matthew 26:30 (and its para. in Mark 14:26), Jesus and his disciples sing a hymn and go out to the Mount of Olives. In Acts 16:25, Paul and Silas sing hymns in prison. In all these cases, the hymns involved are psalms of the OT. In Hebrews 2:12, EN MESWi EKKLHSIAS hUMNHSW SE, the words are quoted from the book of Psalms (Ps. 22:22). In addition to Ephesians and Colossians, WiDH occurs four times in the book of Revelation (Rev. 5:9; 14:3 [dis]; 15:3), where the references are to certain songs of the Hebrew scriptures. In addition to the passages in Ephes. and Col., YALMOS occurs five times in the NT, all of which except one refer to the book of Psalms or a particular psalm in that book. YALMOS in Corinthians 14:26 does not refer to any psalm in the OT book of Psalms. It is safe therefore to say that the words YALMOS, HYMNOS and WiDH (and their verb forms) were used in a religious sense in the first century church. Furthermore, as mentioned in the preceding para., these words were known to Paul’s readers in a religious sense from YALMOI in the Septuagint. It is difficult therefore to understand why only WiDH should be qualified by PNEUMATIKH as if it was liable to be misunderstood by Paul’s readers if not so qualified. At any rate, even if the words YALMOS and jUMNOS had a special association with the Christian faith not shared by WiDH–which I don’t think was the case in the first century–the ejusdem generis principle would have ensured that “songs” in “psalms, hymns and songs” possessed the same character common to both the preceding two words in the mind of Paul’s readers (or hearers of his letter).2. On the translation “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs,” how are we to understand Paul’s exhortation to the Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16? Did Paul exhort the Christians he addressed to speak to one another with the exact words of the OT psalsms and other Christian hymns and songs? How are we to also understand the words hADONTES KAI YALLONTES THi KARDIA hUMWN TWi KURIWi if literal psalms of the OT and literal hymns and songs are meant?I think Paul uses the word PNEUMATIKH in the two verses under consideration to mean “spiritual” not in the sense of religious as opposed to secular, but spiritual as opposed to earthly or fleshly–the same sense that the word has in OIKOS PNEUMATIKOS (1 Peter 2:5), PNEUMATIKAS QUSIAS (1 Peter 2:5) and hHTIs KALEITAI PNEUMATIKWS SODOMA KAI AIGUPTOS (adverbially, Rev. 11:8). The reference is to the contents of the book of psalms, which were sung in the Jerusalem temple as part of its ritual, but they are seen as being fulfilled in a spiritual sense in the NT church. The words KAI YALLONTES THi KARDIA hUMWN TWi KURIWi support that interpretation: Paul often uses KARDIA to mean “spiritual” as opposed to “literal,” e.g., PERITOMH KARDIAS EN PNEUMATI OU GRAMMATI (Romans 2:29).A discussion of what exactly “speaking to one another” in “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” means–or, for that matter, what “spiritual house” or offering of “spiritual sacrifices” means–would take us beyond the scope of this forum. The bottom line is that what is in view in these two passages is not literal singing or reciting of OT psalms and other hymns or songs.Leonard Jayawardena _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

[] Is it the same thing?[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ Barry nebarry at verizon.net
Thu Jul 22 07:10:20 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ —– Original Message —– From: “Leonard Jayawardena” <leonardj at live.com>To: <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>; <dlpost at comcast.net>Cc: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:21 AMSubject: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏> Now that we have got any grammatical objection to translating “YALMOIS > (KAI) hUMNOIS (KAI) WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as “spiritual psalms, hymns and > songs” out of the way–as George F. Somsel mentioned, Robertson cites DWRA > TE KAI QUSIAI MH DUNAMENAI (Heb. 9:9), where the adjective takes the > gender of the last noun, which is feminine–the path is clear for me to > show that the translation “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” better > expresses the apostle Paul’s intention.You’re right — it is a possible understanding, but whether it’s correct or not has to be determined on other grounds. I’m not sure that the rest of your discussion is really relevant to b-Greek, though bits of it might be.N.E. Barry HofstetterClassics and Bible Instructor, TAAhttp://www.theamericanacademy.net(2010 Savatori Excellence in Education Winner)Mentor, TNARShttp://www.tnars.nethttp://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/bloghttp://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com
Fri Jul 23 00:03:38 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ —————————————-> From: nebarry at verizon.net> To: leonardj at live.com; sarah.r.madden at gmail.com; dlpost at comcast.net> CC: at lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:10:20 -0400> > > —– Original Message —–> From: “Leonard Jayawardena” > To: ; > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:21 AM> Subject: [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19;> Colossians 3:16‏> > >> Now that we have got any grammatical objection to translating “YALMOIS>> (KAI) hUMNOIS (KAI) WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as “spiritual psalms, hymns and>> songs” out of the way–as George F. Somsel mentioned, Robertson cites DWRA>> TE KAI QUSIAI MH DUNAMENAI (Heb. 9:9), where the adjective takes the>> gender of the last noun, which is feminine–the path is clear for me to>> show that the translation “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” better>> expresses the apostle Paul’s intention.> > You’re right — it is a possible understanding, but whether it’s correct or> not has to be determined on other grounds. I’m not sure that the rest of> your discussion is really relevant to b-Greek, though bits of it might be.> > N.E. Barry Hofstetter LJ: Grammar can only tell us the two possibilities of translating the phrase in question: “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” or “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.” My post takes the discussion beyond the grammar to show that the latter translation results in the use of the adjective PNEUMATIKH in a way incomprehensible–and even meaningless–given what the three words involved, viz., YALMOS, hUMNOS and WiDH, meant to Paul and his readers in the first century as seen from a study of the use of these words and related verb forms in the LXX and the New Testament. Most of the post taken up with that exercise, which is, I think, relevant to . On the positive side, I have briefly explained what the two passages say if the phrase in question is rendered “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs.” That, too, is not rrelevent to , is it? Leonard Jayawardena _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ Steve Puluka steve at puluka.com
Fri Jul 23 07:02:09 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ [] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ On Jul 23, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Leonard Jayawardena wrote:> LJ: Grammar can only tell us the two possibilities of translating > the phrase in question: “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” or > “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.” My post takes the discussion > beyond the grammar to show that the latter translation results in > the use of the adjective PNEUMATIKH in a way incomprehensible–and > even meaningless–given what the three words involved, viz., > YALMOS, hUMNOS and WiDH, meant to Paul and his readers in the first > century as seen from a study of the use of these words and related > verb forms in the LXX and the New Testament. Most of the post taken > up with that exercise, which is, I think, relevant to .But the second translation is consistent with the continuing usage of the terms in liturgical context down to this day. Hymns are composed and used inside liturgical books. While spiritual songs are para liturgical works of a religious nature sung by the community. Psalms are self-evident.Steve PulukaMA, Theology Duquesne UniversityCantor Holy Ghost ChurchCarpatho-Rusyn traditionMckees Rocks, PAhttp://puluka.com

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ Oun Kwon kwonbbl at gmail.com
Sat Jul 24 23:41:29 EDT 2010

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏ [] 1 Peter 1:11 “spirit of Christ” NWT 2010/7/23 Leonard Jayawardena <leonardj at live.com>:> > <clipped>> On the positive side, I have briefly explained what the two passages say if the phrase in question is rendered “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs.” That, too, is not rrelevent to , is it?> > > Leonard Jayawardena> > How about the English expression ‘hymn and gospel songs’ or ‘hymn andpraise song’?Oun Kwon.

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏[] 1 Peter 1:11 “spirit of Christ” NWT

[] Spiritual psalms, hymns and songs?–Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏‏ Leonard Jayawardena leonardj at live.com
Sun Aug 15 23:39:15 EDT 2010

[] Luke 1:17a AUTOU and its referent [] Where does the NU in ἡμῖν hHMIN come from? Further to my post on the above subject of a few weeks ago, here are two more examples supporting the translation of YALMOIS KAI hUMNOIS KAI WiDAIS PNEUMATIKAIS as “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs”:1. PASAN PALIN KAI TOPON (Luke 10:1)–“every city and place”2. hOLOKLHRON hUMWN TO PNEUMA KAI hH YUCH KAI TO SWMA … EN THi PAROUSIAi TOU KURIOU hHMWN HSOU CRISTOU THRHQEIH (1 Thessalonians 5:23)–May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete … at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.In both cases, as in Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16‏‏, the adjective follows the nearest substantive in gender. However, in Hebrews 3:6, EAN THN PARRHSIAN KAI TO KAUCHMA MECRI TELOUS BEBAIAN KATASCWMEN, the first noun is followed.In my last post, I said that PNEUMATIKH in Ephes.5:19 and Col.3:16 had the same sense as in OIKOS PNEUMATIKOS (1 Peter 2:5), PNEUMATIKAS QUSIAS (1 Peter 2:5) and hHTIs KALEITAI PNEUMATIKWS SODOMA KAI AIGUPTOS (adverbially, Rev. 11:8). More accurately, PNEUMATIKH in these two passages means “spirit-inspired” and “spiritual psalms, hymns and songs” belongs to what Pauls calls TA PNEUMATIKA in 1 Corinthians 14:1—spiritual (gifts)–among which YALMOS (=HUMNOS=hWiDH) is included (1 Corinthians 14:26). Leonard Jayawardena

[] Luke 1:17a AUTOU and its referent[] Where does the NU in ἡμῖν hHMIN come from?